|
|
| As America ages, public transportation will grow (1319417) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1319417) | |
As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 03:04:39 2014 A rather unsettling reality for those who are aging amongst politicians who want to "austerity" public transportation. And why it might be a little more important to your future to vote against them.http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/your-money/when-retirement-planning-consider-transportation.html A *few* locations are working on expanding public transportation. Many are not, which means more dangerous geezers on the road who may end up killing you if politicians keep cutting the expansion of public transit. When it's a given fact that millenials and younger also would rather public transportation, seems that we just might want to focus on this issue ... have a read. It's not political, it's reality. Until our lawgivers decide that this is a real issue, then about the only other option is to move. :( |
|
|
| (1319427) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Sun Oct 19 07:56:15 2014, in response to As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 03:04:39 2014. With only a few highly publicized exceptions, politicians are not cutting the expansion of public transit. From the Wall Street Journal in late July:"[N]umerous passenger rail systems have expanded in recent years. Passenger railways covered more than 10,300 miles in 2012, compared with 8,864 miles in 2000, according to the National Transit Database. Railway systems in cities such as Dallas, Denver and Washington are leading this growth. Rail ridership is also increasing, up to 4.8 billion in 2013 from 3.4 billion a decade earlier. Passenger rail lines are becoming more popular as more people opt for downtown living where they are less dependent on cars." |
|
|
| (1319432) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Oct 19 08:25:15 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Sun Oct 19 07:56:15 2014. Most communities do have public transportation for the handicapped.In Dickinson it is simply called "Public Transit" Instead of numbers on their beese, they have figures. A green dinosaur, a yellow star, a red apple, a blue something or other. Most of the nursing homes and assisted living centers have their own van. And even these are covered by public funding monies. The Van in Richardton operates out of the Richardton Health Center, but it is registered to the clinic and is available to all, not just nursing home residents. The Doctor told mom and dad that they could not drive anymore. They were of course crushed, and mom defiently asks the doctor if he made house calls, and he said "For you, yes, of course I will" Now that is not NYC, but I do believe that they have some "doctors on Wheels" program of some sort. Comes a time that a person can be told that they can no longer drive. We do that here at the Abbey, but of course we have other drivers willing to take people around. ROAR |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1319480) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 16:15:47 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Sun Oct 19 07:56:15 2014. They aren't expanding.The quickest way to do that is to deregulate passenger rail and get the private sector back into it, never mind break up the "big five" Class 1s. |
|
|
| (1319487) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Sun Oct 19 16:40:24 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 16:15:47 2014. I disagree. DART very recently opened the Orange line to DFW. Phoenix is in the process of expanding their system. So too with Houston. Other cities as well. |
|
|
| (1319506) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 18:15:34 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Sun Oct 19 16:40:24 2014. SAS, bro ... and that Saratoga to Albany train? Gone. Same for Joe Bruno's train from Rensselaer to downtown Albany. All started, all yanked. Except for SAS, that's just a stillbirth right now. |
|
|
| (1319585) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Mon Oct 20 03:03:42 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 19 16:15:47 2014. This is classic. Get that big bad government out of passenger rail, but have that same big bad government break up the freight railroads? Yes, that's what we need, the Verizons of the rail! |
|
|
| (1319587) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 03:22:05 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by WillD on Mon Oct 20 03:03:42 2014. Looks more like Fairpoint, Centurylink or Frontier. :( |
|
|
| (1319596) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 06:53:00 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 18:15:34 2014. The government can't get anything built anymore and there's no profit in it for private to do it t anymore....so little if any get done. |
|
|
| (1319613) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Mon Oct 20 08:17:20 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by WillD on Mon Oct 20 03:03:42 2014. LOL! |
|
|
| (1319621) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Mon Oct 20 08:54:34 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Broadway Lion on Sun Oct 19 08:25:15 2014. Best to you and your parents.These are never the easiest times. |
|
|
| (1319634) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by P.Opus on Mon Oct 20 10:35:55 2014, in response to As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 03:04:39 2014. This plus the migration of college grads to city centers will help build the demand as well (see today's NY Times) |
|
|
| (1319646) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 12:11:19 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 06:53:00 2014. Government could, but people would need to be willing to ante up. There's the REAL problem. And corporates could as well - there are even tax breaks for "doing the right thing even if it doesn't make a profit" as well. But there, the investors want to choke every last penny out of each quarter even if it kills the cow. |
|
|
| (1319648) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 20 12:12:43 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 18:15:34 2014. Varies from state to state/city to city.The light-rail system in the Phoenix metro area is expanding after just three and a half years of operation. Sound Transit (Seattle/Tacoma) is expanding in all directions. DART just opened the Orange line extension to DFW. Opening September 12, 2015, the Portland-Milwaukie light rail transit line will travel 7.3 miles between PSU, inner Southeast Portland, Milwaukie and Oak Grove in north Clackamas County. Houston METRO is expanding their light rail system, which includes three new rail lines totaling 15 miles of LRT, 24 stations, and new storage and inspection facilities. Salt Lake City and Albuquerque recently opened their light rail systems. Drawing conclusions from New York's failures is short-sighted. Sure, there have been other LR and HR systems that have foundered but overall public transportation systems are more plentiful now than they have been in many decades. |
|
|
| (1319655) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 12:42:00 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Mon Oct 20 12:12:43 2014. Well ... not to start a political here, but money that used to be available for NY now goes to the other states. Had that balance of funding not been so twisted, things would be getting done here. Funding was very different before the 80's. |
|
|
| (1319666) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 20 13:30:30 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 12:42:00 2014. Hasn't it always been a zero-sum game? What isn't spent in State A gets spent in State B? |
|
|
| (1319669) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 13:37:17 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Mon Oct 20 13:30:30 2014. Now it's a zero allocation game. Mooch states get the money, New York pays. |
|
|
| (1319670) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 13:38:10 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 20 06:53:00 2014. au contraire. It is precisely because publicly financed projects are so thoroughly milked for "cost overruns" et al that they continue to be funded. The problem is the multinational crimanals (corporations) are unwilling to pay their fair share of the costs of civilisation. The full SAS, a proper 4 track trunk w/ express and local services, could be afforded by a minor trimming of the money wasted by the five sided mistake in northern Virginia. If the corporate tax cheats were leaned on correctly we would have funding both for massive infrastructure work (employing people of all skill levels) and paying down the national debt. |
|
|
| (1319671) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 20 13:50:01 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 13:38:10 2014. Perhaps in your Leftist Utopia.Leftist ideology looks wonderful on paper, but doesn't work in the real world. |
|
|
| (1319679) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 14:24:27 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 20 13:50:01 2014. tell that to the vets who bought houses and went to college under the GI Bill after WWII. And when you have finished that, explain how private sector capital funded the highways, the airports, and air traffic control system.We may admire the IRT and BMT for the pretty station treatments, but they went bankrupt, and so did CRT, PTC, and most every other urban transit system in the US. So in the shared reality of the past, private sector funded and operated transit proved it was uneconomic. Its called a "failed business model." As to utopia, yes, of course I have a picture of how things could be better. I hope you don't think present reality represents the apex of perfection with no potential for further improvement. |
|
|
| (1319680) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Oct 20 14:24:53 2014, in response to As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 03:04:39 2014. A *few* locations are working on expanding public transportation.FWIW, the real problem is that even if we do spend a sizable chunk of money on public transport, we're stuck with cities that simply aren't designed for it, and short of spending petrodollars on trying to serve every dinky office park and warehouse with 10 minute service, there's only so much than can be effectively served. Had we developed with Canadian or Australian planning, we could achieve higher although not European levels of use, but ultimately, it's going to be hard to really move the needle unless we play SimCity bulldozer. |
|
|
| (1319682) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Oct 20 14:26:47 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 13:38:10 2014. a proper 4 track trunk w/ express and local servicesIn the rest of the world, you build line and run at 90 second headways first before demanding a secondary line. |
|
|
| (1319684) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 20 14:35:18 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 14:24:27 2014. We may admire the IRT and BMT for the pretty station treatments, but they went bankruptAnd one of the reasons for that was the government demanding they keep the fare at 5 cents for almost 50 years. Not to mention changing modes of transportation, rendering the monopoly trains had obsolete. |
|
|
| (1319730) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 18:13:47 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Oct 20 14:24:53 2014. There, I'll totally agree. |
|
|
| (1319761) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Oct 20 20:18:53 2014, in response to As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 19 03:04:39 2014. As someone who has watched all of the rail plans, and see how long it takes, since we're talking government, if I were to wait on a rail plan to finally be built, I would be lucky if it would be built before I'm retired. If I am to rely on such a thing when I am aged, I will be dead for generations before it's built. |
|
|
| (1319763) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 20:44:29 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by orange blossom special on Mon Oct 20 20:18:53 2014. Nothing prevents private enterprise from building new passenger railroads. |
|
|
| (1319767) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 20 21:00:25 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by italianstallion on Mon Oct 20 20:44:29 2014. Greed! |
|
|
| (1319770) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 20 21:31:41 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by orange blossom special on Mon Oct 20 20:18:53 2014. ESA in Manhattan being one of the biggest and worst examples. |
|
|
| (1319797) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 22:35:12 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 20 14:35:18 2014. And as I further said "and so did CRT, PTC, and most every other urban transit system in the US." And I might add every single interurban traction property as well as the commuter operations of every mainline RR. There are a very few cases where a passenger operation actually made money and fewer still for any length of time. This is, BTW, |
|
|
| (1319824) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Tue Oct 21 07:48:03 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Oct 20 13:37:17 2014. "Ford to City: Drop Dead" |
|
|
| (1319920) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Oct 21 16:33:22 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Dave on Tue Oct 21 07:48:03 2014. Yep ... but they keep sending us the bill. |
|
|
| (1319971) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:07:03 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 14:24:27 2014. cogent observation. as an aside, should we continue to assume that people can be thought of as thinking about things in p.o.v. mega-blocks? we may say that we want to legalize pot but also want to reduce benefits fo unwed mothers. |
|
|
| (1319975) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:31:19 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Oct 20 14:26:47 2014. ...but 4-track lines are way cooler :). in that regard, manhattan island is a freak, a monster. walk across 23rd street from 8th ave to park avenue: 8th ave: 4 tracks. 7th ave: 4 tracks. 6th ave: 4 tracks. (and underneath that, two path train tracks making it six railroad tracks running below the ave) broadway: 4 tracks. park ave: 4 tracks. most cities would sell their collective souls to have even the "lowly" path trains in service through their downtown. |
|
|
| (1319977) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:55:10 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:31:19 2014. hell, do that walk along 14th street with it's own two track line and you almost want to explode with railfan delight. and the fact that every one of those avenues also have mutiple bus lines running down them is beyond belief. |
|
|
| (1319983) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 01:17:57 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Mon Oct 20 14:26:47 2014. Having lived in Chicago where CTA did that on the "North South Through Route" which from the north portal of the State St Subway south was only 2 track, and riding the Illinois Central Electric w/ a 4 track main from 115th 50 51st and then a six track main to 12th St. I have experience of both ideas. CTA was signaled for 90" headways in the 50s, the IC not quite that tight, but 20 mph faster. Having the flexibility of express tracks is highly valuable both for total throughput, and for skipping local stops on rides of longer distance. It is also more convenient for riders o have trains to different destinations use different sides of a platform. |
|
|
| (1319985) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 01:29:35 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:07:03 2014. Indeed, one cannot assume all "liberals/progressives" agree on multiple issues any more than all "conservatives/reactionaries" want to defund rail passenger service be it Amtrak or local commuter/subway/streetcar services. On of the great comedies was the essay on Paul Weyrich's Free Congress Foundation site "Why Conservatives should support commuter rail" In short if daddy takes the train from the lily white suburban paradise to the nasty city to earn money, mommy can stay home using the single family car for her bio determined role of child rearing/homemaking/ferrying the children to school/extra curricular activities. The late Mr Weyrich stood for many things which I abhor, but supported public funding for rail. He also funded a magazine of electric rail transit news and later a electronic transit newsletter. |
|
|
| (1319991) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 22 02:51:02 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Oct 20 14:24:27 2014. We may admire the IRT and BMT for the pretty station treatments, but they went bankrupt. . . thanks to the government overreaching. Be honest now. |
|
|
| (1319993) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 22 03:02:46 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Oct 20 14:35:18 2014. And one of the reasons for that was the government demanding they keep the fare at 5 cents for almost 50 yearsThat wrecked business like crazy. The IND was forced to charge higher fares by Albany, ironically. The fare went up to 10¢ in 1947, which works out to $1.07 in 2014 dollars. Today's $2.50 fare would have been 23¢ back then; would people have paid that much to ride the subway? Maybe. |
|
|
| (1319994) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 03:19:01 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Oct 22 02:51:02 2014. As I said previously, they were not outliers; almost all electric transit properties in the US failed. While one can indeed argue that a low fare hobbled both the IRT and BMT, the melting away of riders on all transit properties was decisive. |
|
|
| (1320008) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by ntrainride on Wed Oct 22 10:28:04 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Oct 22 01:29:35 2014. The world is much more complex then we can easily understand. I can understand the desire to make assumptions like that, but I also know that it's not going to be a completely accurate assessment of "reality". And that's probably the best we can hope for. |
|
|
| (1320051) | |
Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 22 14:43:00 2014, in response to Re: As America ages, public transportation will grow, posted by ntrainride on Tue Oct 21 22:31:19 2014. Excellent post. |
|
|
