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| 50 years of R 32s (1310124) | |
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| (1310124) | |
50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by 5119 on Sat Aug 30 15:14:05 2014 To celebrate 50 years of operation for the R 32s, I will begin by inquiring which subway cars types operated in daily passengers for 50 years in New York? |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Aug 30 16:45:54 2014, in response to 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Sat Aug 30 15:14:05 2014. Some of the Hi-vs qualify since the first of them the Gibbs cars entered service in 1904 and the next series, the deck roofers entered service in 1908 and both types remained in service until 1958 along with the later motors which didn't quite make the 50year mark since they came in 1910 so they just missed the 50 year mark. The first of the BMT 67 ft steels entered service in 1914 and the 2500 series entered service in 1919 and those lasted in service till 1969 with the various earlier series remaining in service for at least 50 years also. Oddly, some of the newer steels like the 2700 and 2800s were removed from service earlier so they didn't quite make the 50 year mark either. The elevates Q cars sort of qualify also since although as rebuilds, they date to 1938, as originally built with gates, they date back to 1907 and lasted until 1969 even a few months later than the steels. |
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| (1310135) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 30 17:01:44 2014, in response to 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Sat Aug 30 15:14:05 2014. I think basically every R type subway car from the R1s to the R188s. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Sat Aug 30 18:03:24 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 30 17:01:44 2014. I beg to differ. If we are talking strictly about revenue service, the R33-36 WF's were delivered in 1963-64 didn't make it to 50, neither did the R-38's |
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| (1310139) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 30 18:58:44 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Hart Bus on Sat Aug 30 18:03:24 2014. I misread OP, I thought he was asking which car classes came and went during the R32s service life. I'm on mobile so the screen isn't that big lol. |
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| (1310146) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 30 20:48:48 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Aug 30 18:58:44 2014. I meant to say car classes that was running in the system at the same time as the 32's. |
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| (1310174) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:26:20 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by randyo on Sat Aug 30 16:45:54 2014. One could say that the R32 and the Q types underwent similar rebuilds. Though the shell of an R32 is the same as it was in 1964, just about everything else on it was replaced in 1988-89. |
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| (1310191) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:21:29 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:26:20 2014. The trucks and drawheads are still the originals. |
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| (1310192) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by r384149 on Sun Aug 31 13:32:31 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:21:29 2014. seats are original too, theres a few cars out there with light blue showing, same goes for the window frames. I've even seen a few seats that are a sort of reddish color (im guessing they're from R27/30s?) |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:26:20 2014. Unfortunately, the rebuilding of these cars during thelate 1980's did absolutely nothing to remedy their horrendous riding quality, about the worst of any subway car in memory. Even more cruelly ironic is the fact that the cars they originally replaced were some of the best in that regard, but that's how it goes. These R-32's somehow outlasted loads of other better running cars. I can already hear every "railfan" getting at me to tell me that I'm dead wrong, but I and others are entitled to our opinion - there are others who happen to share this opinion. For my part, they cannot be removed from service and disposed of quickly enough. |
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| (1310266) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:27:09 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. Not necessarily wrong ... aside from the stainless steel construction, they were otherwise just the same as the redbirds, only a little longer and a little wider. |
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| (1310267) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 31 21:31:48 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:27:09 2014. ...but much faster, or so it would seem. On the B'way Express downtown run, Q & N at the time if memory serves, they ran like rabbits! |
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| (1310268) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:35:59 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 31 21:31:48 2014. Redbirds did too once upon a time. The 32's were remarkably similar to the 33's. And yeah, I loved the takeoff when I'd get to run them on CPW. :) |
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| (1310271) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 31 22:07:14 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:35:59 2014. Thats correct. Once upon a time I was in my 68 Nova riding on Roosevelt Ave. stuck at a red light at 90th st. Suddenly a Flushing bound express (R-33/36) comes flying by above, my guess at about 50mph with a noise that Van Gough could hear...even now!.The unsetteling aspect of this observation is that the whole elevated structure was visibily swaying with the passing train. You could see it move side to side with the gentle twitching of the girder suspended traffic lights. I remember that the track was in rough shape on that section back then, slow orders were not to be found there so you got a good rock & roll on that ride & it showed from underneath. When the train went side to side, it took the structure with it Haven't been there in awhile. My guess, like many other spots in the system, timers are there now, so no more rock & roll! |
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| (1310272) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 31 22:09:04 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:21:29 2014. The seats, modified door swing panels, and pantographs are original |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 31 23:38:10 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 31 21:31:48 2014. Not so! All NYCT cars of the 1950s and 1960s eras were built to the same performance statdards. All were designed to accelerate at 2.7 MPH/Sec IIRC and all had a balancing speed of 55 MPH |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 03:52:30 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. Can't deny the ride quality bit and not the most comfortable. But I will say the 32's have some GREAT brakes (with some isolated exceptions here and there). |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:12:55 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 03:52:30 2014. Pity you missed the redbirds ... before they disintegrated, they were the same as the 32's. :) |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:21:07 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Aug 31 22:07:14 2014. Steel is SUPPOSED to move. When it DOESN'T, then it's time to worry. :) |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 1 05:20:19 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:21:07 2014. Amen ,to that. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by 5119 on Mon Sep 1 13:26:52 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 31 23:38:10 2014. I always thought the balancing was 50MPH |
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| (1310318) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:26:56 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. I can't say that the riding quality of the R-32s was bad, however, the next contract, the R-38s were among the worst of the postwar NYCTS cars in terms of riding quality and braking. The 32s exceeded them in almost any way possible. Having operated them both before and after GOH, I can definitely say that the GOH was not an improvement at all and the braking quality was definitely worse. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 14:54:50 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:12:55 2014. Yea bf my time in TA but I do remember riding them growing up. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 1 17:39:16 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. On the Bway Bklyn Exprss portion, the R32's are bouncy. Had a hard time holding my camcorder steady. Is that from their shitty suspension system or bad track ? |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 1 17:54:06 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 31 23:38:10 2014. Didn't the weight of the car affect that ? |
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| (1310367) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 18:03:01 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Mon Sep 1 13:26:52 2014. Nope ... he's right. They could do 55 were it not for timers and speed restrictions. |
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| (1310370) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Sep 1 18:14:39 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 1 17:54:06 2014. "Didn't the weight of the car affect that ? "Not really! Each car had, (what were called) "Rate Pots", potentiometers that controlled rates of acceleration and dynamic braking. They were supposed to be checked during a maintenance procedure known as "track test". Results were recorded on a multi-channel recorder. Regardless of the weight of the car, the rate pots were set so that every car accelerated and decelerated at the same rate. Small variations resulted in cars knocking or banging. |
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| (1310374) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 1 18:16:46 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Train Dude on Mon Sep 1 18:14:39 2014. Tell that to an R16 ! |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Sep 1 18:19:40 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Mon Sep 1 13:26:52 2014. (In very simple terms) Balancing speed is a technical term related to a point where the motor is turning at an optimal speed where magnetic fields are cancelled, producing the least electrical drag on the motor. Pretty much it is based on level, tangent track Of course, down grade the train will go faster. |
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| (1310377) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Mon Sep 1 18:19:52 2014, in response to 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Sat Aug 30 15:14:05 2014. Long live the Brightliners!!!! :-) |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Sep 1 18:21:38 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 1 18:16:46 2014. A properly rated R-16 would agree with me. The problem was that back in those days, guys would adjust rate pots using an ohm meter or by ear instead of doing track test. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 20:11:50 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:21:07 2014. Move is one thing, complete street visible structural sway is something else. Just unsettling when you don't expect to see it. But,The Flushing line has been there almost 100 years. If is hasn't fallen down on Roosevelt Ave by now, I guess it probably never will. But the laws of physics that address metal fatigue cannot be ignored. Someday soon, a rebuild will have to be considered. They rebuilt the QB viaduct, the box gurder el structure from Bliss To Main may be the next budget item to be considered for the line. They overbuilt on the old days, it held up well, but to coin a phrase, nothing lasts forever. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 20:25:12 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 20:11:50 2014. I'm sure that over the years, all the rivet holes have elongated a bit. But the way those els are built, they'll be dropping pieces before they come down. The concrete sections are a different story of course because they DON'T "give" and thus they'll crack. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 20:59:26 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 20:11:50 2014. They did do some structural repairs on the el along Roosevelt Av back in the 1980's, as I recall. |
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| (1310415) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Mon Sep 1 20:59:27 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 20:11:50 2014. How about the Astoria el, which has much heavier equipment on it for almost 70 years? |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 21:49:29 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Mon Sep 1 20:59:27 2014. True, but the Flushing Line has a bit of a "speedway" from Woodside to Junction Blvd where todays cars are much heavier than the Lo Vs Qs & R 12/14/15s, 33/36s that called that iron home back then. Nowadays,62a s & 188s get up to 50mph. That has to put a strain on almost 100 yr old standard dual contract box girder el construction that was the norm of the day back then.Astoria trains, heavier as they may be, plod along from station to station in both directions at a much lower speed thus lower stress on the structure. |
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| (1310450) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 21:57:19 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 21:49:29 2014. But when a train comes to a halt or starts at a station it sends a shock wave through the el (you can feel it) so that also causes a lot of wear and tear on the structure. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 22:25:29 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 20:59:26 2014. IIRC a major lateral girder cracked under the Manhattan bound track just west of the QBP in the early 80s if memory serves. I remember seeing a wooden prop holding up the girder right in the middle of QP south. This was a temporary fix till permanent repairs were made.. God help the drunk coming off the bridge a bit too fast & smackin into it just as a train was going by. Who knows what would have happened if that occured. Thankfully it never did. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 22:35:39 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Sep 1 22:25:29 2014. That's right, except it was in the 1970's. It was a heavy vertical timber under the middle of the double deck structure where the Flushing el goes around the corner at 23 St & Bridge Plaza South. I remember the Long Island Press had a photo with the caption "All Aboard For Thrills!". |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Mon Sep 1 23:37:33 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Handbrake on Sun Aug 31 22:09:04 2014. Aren't the standee poles original? |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Far Rockaway A Train on Tue Sep 2 00:08:00 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. Well, this railfan whole heartedly agree with you. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Sep 2 08:17:28 2014, in response to 50 years of R 32s, posted by 5119 on Sat Aug 30 15:14:05 2014. A milestone indeed... |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Sep 2 08:18:48 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by r384149 on Sun Aug 31 13:32:31 2014. I have seen the blue showing through on seats and window frames as well... |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Sep 2 08:20:53 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by wzucker3040 on Sun Aug 31 21:11:01 2014. It is an opinion, respectfully presented. In America, everyone has the right to be wrong :).... |
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| (1310567) | |
Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 2 20:08:16 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 21:57:19 2014. Remember when Crescent Street (J line) had the wood platform and canopies ? The canopy violently shook back and forth whenever a train moved.Didn't they pull the dynamic braking out of the R12/14 for 3rd Av el service to cut structure stress ? |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by 5119 on Tue Sep 2 21:27:20 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 2 20:08:16 2014. Yes they did. |
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Re: 50 years of R 32s |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Sep 2 22:37:45 2014, in response to Re: 50 years of R 32s, posted by Joe V on Tue Sep 2 20:08:16 2014. Below Fordham, that was old contract one steel. |
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