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| Re: Bronx D Train Question (1310141) | |
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| (1310305) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Sep 1 12:07:10 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Gene B. on Sun Aug 31 21:01:23 2014. Not sure if this is a contributing factor, but the latest (B) train schedule shows three northbound AM trains that now terminate at Kingsbridge Rd instead of BPB.Visit my blog! |
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| (1310306) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Sep 1 12:15:49 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by jabrams on Mon Sep 1 10:12:50 2014. Cancelled scheduled train......ABandoneD. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Sep 1 12:18:13 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 11:27:48 2014. None. There is no crew facility at 205. Waste of money to have 2 at 2 consecutive stations. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1310314) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 13:02:04 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Sep 1 12:18:13 2014. The #1? Trains used to change crews at Chambers. |
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| (1310315) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 1 13:04:56 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 11:27:48 2014. If memory serves CTA did some recrewing and equipment additions @ 61st St back in North South Thru Route days. Specifically an 'owl 2 car train from Howard pulled into 61st and then after closing the doors moved forward to couple onto a 4 car train @ the S end of the platform. The crew from Howard got off and the new crew in the now 6 car train proceeded to South Park (this was 50 years ago neither the street or station had been renamed)So was this common? (I only witnessed this once as I was not a regular @ dawn) |
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| (1310316) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Mon Sep 1 13:07:32 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 13:02:04 2014. Courtlandt and Rector street is between Chambers and South Ferry.Also Brighton Beach and Stilwell, 145 and 168th also two stops apart. |
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| (1310319) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:30:11 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:12:02 2014. All you would need to do was get on the radio and notify the RCC that the terminal T/D was about to order you to perform an outlawed act and did they want to co authorize it. After that if both the RCC and T/D insisted, there was a record which could be used in the event of any incident. |
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| (1310320) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:31:23 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Sep 1 12:15:49 2014. On the BMT we used the term "dropped" rather than ABD but I don't know if that's still the case. |
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| (1310321) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:53:28 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 13:02:04 2014. #1 trains never changed crews at Chambers. Since Chambers was at one time the farthest point south with supervision, late trains were recorded there instead of So/Fy and changes of headway were often instituted there as well as trains held till scheduled time but crews from the north terminals remained on the train around So/Fy loop the same way the Pelham and Dyre crews do at Bkln Br and Bwlg Grn respectively. At one time A crews for far Rock changed at Euclid both S/B and N/B depending on the vagaries of the work program since there was no proper crew facility or full time supervision at Far Rock. #5 crews also changed at E-180 St N/B in the AM rush and S/B in the PM rush so that through crews were always guaranteed in the peak direction of travel. Again this was due to the lack of a crew facility and full time supervision at Dyre. AFAIK, both Dyre and Far Rock now have both full time supervision and improved crew facilities. There were a few cases where on a temporary basis, enroute crew changes were implemented on certain lines when due to maintenance, trains had to be turned at locations other than their regular terminals. Back in the 1990s, the crew room at Astoria was being rebuilt so during that time, N crews reported and were relieved at Qnsbro Plaza. Coincidentally, at the same time N LIne access to Stl was closed off and Ns terminated at 86 St. As a result, N crews changed S/B at Kings Hwy which had a rather substantial crew facility which 86 St did not. I'm not sure if it is done any more, but when I was a M/M in 1969 and a T/D shortly thereafter, there were some crews which did report at 205 St and operate through during the hours when there was part time supervision at 205 St. At one point the TA experimented with changing D crews N/B at Bedford during the AM rush to avoid the delay caused by changing crews S/B but that didn't last very long. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 14:06:18 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 1 13:04:56 2014. That sounds like the operation that was done at Euclid on the A line in the 1980s when the TA attempted to cut non rush hour trains. Trains from Lefferts were able to be cut at the terminal since there was an immediate layup area to lay up the excess cars, Far Rock had no immediate layup area so 10 car A trains operated north to Euclid where they were cut in the station into 2 X 5 car trains. In order to avoid cutting with passengers on board, 2 5 car trains that were relayed from a 10 car layup were cut and would be waiting on the adjacent track either the exp or lcl depending on road conditions. The 10 car train from Far Rock would then discharge passengers who would board one of the 5 car trains which would then proceed north. The 10 car train would then lay up to clear the track for the through train from Lefferts. When the next Far rock train arrived, it would discharge passengers who would board the remaining 5 car train and continue north. The 10 car train from far Rock would then cut in the station and be available as 2 5 car trains for passengers coming off the next train from Far Rock until all A trains were 5 cars. In the PM the process was reversed until all A trains were 10 cars for the rush. Due to complications from that process, the TA eventually gave up cutting trains midday on the A. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 14:42:11 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 1 13:04:56 2014. True, it was just not 61st St crews relieving Howard crews and visa versa, it was also common for crews to relieve each other regardless of terminal origin. Today, the only mid route relief are certain Evanston/Purple crews(singular, motorman/operator) either southbound trains toward the Loop, or northbound trains toward Evanston. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 14:42:51 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Sep 1 12:18:13 2014. So the D is the only one? |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 14:48:51 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 14:42:51 2014. See some other posts in this thread that mentioned other mid-route relief points. |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 15:20:16 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 14:48:51 2014. If you cant give me a specific answer, I would appreciate you not giving me a smartass response. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 15:20:33 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 08:52:50 2014. At this time, B and D trains are arriving from the south at a faster rate then they are departing south. That's what causes the logjam. Some trains have to be pulled and sent to the yard. |
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| (1310335) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 1 15:42:11 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 15:00:54 2014. I think one of the (B)'s that enter the center track at 145th after the a.m. rush is instead sent via the upper level to 207 yard and becomes that special R68 (A) that runs in the PM rush. |
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| (1310336) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 15:53:49 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 15:20:16 2014. I was trying to be helpful. What's your problem? Read the other responses to your question. They're very informative. Lots of people know more than me. |
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| (1310337) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 15:55:50 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 15:20:33 2014. And there appears to be a shortage of personnel to do that. |
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| (1310340) | |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 16:24:44 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:59:48 2014. Really??? I have never seen this or even heard of it before. Wow. |
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| (1310348) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 17:09:53 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:59:48 2014. In my few times there at 9:30 AM, I did not see that problem. We're only talking a train every 6 minutes. The inbound platform was vacant for much of the time while I was waiting for an southbound train.I can't see any explanation for my observations other than that crews were not available at BPB when they needed to be. |
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| (1310358) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 17:38:10 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:59:48 2014. They usually got to 205 pretty empty and most folks there were happy to get off and climb the ramp in my experience. Then again, 40 years ago. :) |
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| (1310360) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 17:42:27 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:31:23 2014. I'm kinda surprised MTA kept the old IND terminology and didn't come up with some other euphemism to be honest. :) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 17:44:19 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 14:42:51 2014. The BPB/205 situation is because the IND was supposed to be built past 205th but never was. BPB is the next stop south of 205 and is the terminal for the Concourse local. Both stations have tracks that go to Concourse yard which is sorta in between the two stops. It's a very short distance. |
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| (1310362) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 17:46:07 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:30:11 2014. Radios working ... IND ... good one. :)Nah ... they were careful to make sure that you just barely hit it when they'd do that. They knew not to send you out if you would actually go over. But I sure had been planning on going home before that "could you do one more trip?" |
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| (1310388) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Sep 1 19:34:09 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 18:37:17 2014. I lived on the Concourse line from the late 1970s until I moved from NYC in '97, and I've been on the D at least a couple of times when they chose to cross over north of BPB, then wrong rail into 205th. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:36:07 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 17:44:19 2014. Thank you for the information. I find it amazing that the D and 4 parallel each not even a couple of blocks apart, yet both still have heavy ridership. |
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| (1310407) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 20:43:10 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:36:07 2014. 'twas not too long ago the MTA considered cutting the Jerome (4) line back to 161st street and demolish the remaining "el" portion north of there. Public & politician's outcry. Scary situation.jrc |
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| (1310408) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:46:57 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 20:43:10 2014. Wasn't the D built to replace the 4? |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 20:52:18 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:46:57 2014. Mayor Hylan's plan to put the privates out of business, supported by the public who had to pay for it immensely because the IRT and BMT sucked for most people. Concourse line wasn't built as fully as it could have been due to lack of money and so it really isn't up to FULLY replacing the Jerome. They run close together (about four blocks apart) over much of their shared route, but there's lots of buses feeding both and so both are really needed. D goes down the west side, Jerome goes down the east side so they don't really compete in Manhattan. |
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| (1310411) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:58:05 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 20:52:18 2014. So you personally prefer the IND Division? Was the D supposed to go up to the city limits? |
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| (1310412) | |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 1 20:58:31 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 1 13:31:23 2014. Dropped is sometimes used. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 1 21:00:20 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 11:27:48 2014. Certain lines during G/O's have mid-route reliefs. One example is the northbound (1) train at 137 Street - City College when the line is terminating at 168 Street - Washington Heights. |
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| (1310417) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 21:00:56 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:58:05 2014. I worked the D, that was my trick. And yeah, IND was sweet to work, much more laid back than the other divisions, you'd do your thing and go home. I liked it. And no, the D turned towards 205th and was going to go west from there to around where CoOp city is now. But it never got built. The Jerome gets pretty close to the city line. Stops right before the cemetery. |
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| (1310418) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:01:31 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by G1Ravage on Mon Sep 1 21:00:20 2014. ok Thank you. Are the reliefs time consuming? |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:02:56 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 21:00:56 2014. So the D was supposed to have been a cross borough route? |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:05:40 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 21:00:56 2014. The time it takes to get from 205th St. to Coney Island I'm guessing is 90 minutes? |
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| (1310423) | |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 21:07:16 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:46:57 2014. No. The 6th Ave "el" yes. The Lex Ave Woodlawn has held its own for many years. The Bronx was building up in the late 20's/ early 30's. The Concourse line was needed as was the Jerome line. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 1 21:07:24 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:05:40 2014. Why guess? Thee's a published schedule. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 1 21:08:28 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 20:36:07 2014. They travel through a high-density area of mainly large apartment buildings. So the ridership is there. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:09:25 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by italianstallion on Mon Sep 1 21:07:24 2014. Good idea. I'll check. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 21:13:44 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:02:56 2014. There were arguments over the Concourse line's routing; wasn't the (D) then.The plan was 4 track with possible eastward extension, to and along Burke Avenue. Then the NY,Westchester & Boston RR went belly up. There was where the problems hit. Limited money to either revive the line, build the Concourse line all the way to Burke, and connect with the abandoned railroad, have an additional extension shoot off at either Tremont or Fordham, use the money to immediately reiopen part of the abandoned railroad. That eventually is what happened, and the loss of funds cut the Concourse to 3 tracks, and the current terminals. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 21:27:26 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:02:56 2014. Yep ... and r17 explained the rest of the story ... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 21:28:00 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:05:40 2014. Yeah, it was about that. If the wind was blowing the right way. :) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Gene B. on Tue Sep 2 10:44:50 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Sep 1 12:07:10 2014. Thanks for the help, but those three B trains are after 9 AM and she is there around 8 AM. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Gene B. on Tue Sep 2 10:47:45 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 21:09:59 2014. I placed my last post in the wrong place. It should have been placed as a response to the whole thread, not to you. My bad!!! Thanks for your help and for letting everyone know that my daughter was not exaggerating. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 2 11:21:04 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:59:48 2014. Meanwhile, in Paris, the fully automated Metro Line 14 doesn't do much to prevent passengers from going into indefinite relays with no crew at all!Example |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 2 11:31:39 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:05:40 2014. Bear in mind that Selkirk may have operated the D when it was the Brighton Local, which could have made a difference in running time. |
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| (1310499) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 2 11:44:00 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 21:09:25 2014. Remember that the D was once the Brighton Local and, before that, the Brighton Express, and, before that, Culver Local. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Sep 2 12:06:37 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 2 11:44:00 2014. The only times that the D was the Brighton Lcl was when there was no Brighton express service late PMs midnights and weekends. Otherwise the D was always the Brighton Express since November 1967 during the normal hours of Brighton express operation. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Sep 2 12:07:09 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Sep 2 11:31:39 2014. See my post. |
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