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| (1310141) | |
Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Gene B. on Sat Aug 30 20:19:25 2014 My daughter teaches at Bronx Science and frequently takes the D train. Every morning, the northbound D train stops at Kingsbridge Rd. for 5-10 minutes before proceeding to Bedford Park Blvd. Southbound, the D train waits in the Bedford Park Blvd. station for at least five minutes before proceeding southbound. Does anyone know the reasons for these delays? |
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| (1310142) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 30 20:26:50 2014, in response to Bronx D Train Question, posted by Gene B. on Sat Aug 30 20:19:25 2014. Congestion of B trains entering Bed Pk middle to turn.The D should not be there for that long. Crews change at Bed Pk because of no crew facility at 205. It may seem like 5 minutes but if she actually times it with a watch it is seldom as long as that.....unless 205 sends it out early to get a train and crew out of the yard. |
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| (1310143) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Aug 30 20:36:24 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 30 20:26:50 2014. If she is riding after 9am, that begins t he bewitching or "we bitching" hour. At the stroke of 9, the (B) stops its southbound run and the (D) becomes a local in the Bx. (B) after (B) come up to be laid up in the yard and some are deadheaded back to 145th using the center track. (D) trains will sit & wait for what seems an eternity.In the evening, locals back up to Fordham at time while congestion clears at Bedford. The IRT is no better. Used to be, bad enough, when Woodlawn trains sat and waited, suspended over Gun Hill Rd at Jerome, while Woodlawn's two tracks got cleared. Now, more often than not, trains wait and can't enter Mosholu Pkwy. Hurry up & wait at the MTA. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 30 20:46:33 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 30 20:26:50 2014. I needed to go to a doctor at Montefiore a bunch of times earlier this year. She's not exaggerating. It was often longer. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sat Aug 30 20:47:47 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Aug 30 20:36:24 2014. What I don't understand is why a southbound D at 9:30 AM would sit at Bedford Park Blvd for 5 minutes or more. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Aug 30 22:31:16 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 30 20:47:47 2014. Usually the new crew is waiting "in position" at Bedford Park Blvd (conductor and motorman) so that once the southbound D enters Bedford Park Blvd, it leaves 2 minutes later per schedule. It would sit for longer than that if the new crew wasn't ready, just like at any other "terminal" (Flatbush Ave, 95th St, etc). |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 01:12:06 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by BrooklynTrain on Sat Aug 30 22:31:16 2014. Sometimes the D trains get sent out of 205 early so it will wait at Bedford Pk until it's departure time. |
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| (1310162) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 01:42:58 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 01:12:06 2014. All I can offer is the way that it worked in 1971 since I last worked the D. We had arnines primarily and 32's, and one of the nice things about arnines is that you could do a handle out on one end, stay charged, drop the handle on the other end, release and go. That cut down seriously on relay time going into and coming out of the relay if you didn't have a switchman on the other end.We'd pull in, drop 'em off, go into the relay, back out, open up and go to BPB. Bonus if you were quick because that gave you more fallback time. Normally, it was fall back two so that was bonus. :) With the newer equipment where you had to dump, recharge, go in, dump again and change ends, that time added up more so than in the past. But you still got out of 205 as quickly as you could open up and go. I'm sure it's still some variation on that theme today, the faster you can get to BPB, the more time you had to go upstairs, grab a sammich, or see what was on the groove tube in the crew room before it was you to go on the stand. :) But that outbound was schduled, BPB was the actual terminal regardless of what time you landed there S/B. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 08:44:03 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 01:12:06 2014. Leaving early is a highly objectionable practice. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:16:30 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Aug 30 20:36:24 2014. I don't understand (or have I ever seen) these B train deadheads. Around 9 AM, about 4-5 B trains go OOS at Bedford Park Blvd and the first train to terminate at 145th is the first train out. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:17:03 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:16:30 2014. Unless something's changed in the last 3-4 years, that is. |
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| (1310187) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:13:51 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 08:44:03 2014. True, but if it's necessary to clear the terminal it's often done and the train held at the next available hold point. |
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| (1310188) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:18:01 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 01:42:58 2014. Another thing that was done back then is that in the AM rush, N/B Ds were crossed to the exp tk S/O Fordham and operated straight iron into Bedford while CCs remained on the lcl tk so that fumigating them at Bedford wouldn't hold up the Ds. I'm not sure if those switches are still there or whether they were removed with the new Concourse signaling and nycsubway.org is not up to date with its track maps so I couldn't check. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 14:33:57 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:13:51 2014. OK, I agree, if it's necessary to clear the terminal it's fine. But that most definitely wasn't what I was seeing the times I was at 205 at 9:30 AM. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Aug 31 14:48:10 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:18:01 2014. no switches at Fordham Road for da past few years.chud1. :).... |
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| (1310210) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 14:52:44 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 31 10:16:30 2014. Let me add to the above: passengers for 205th taken off trains at Bedford PK. B after B comes in and goes O/S. Can't one (B) at least take the slack to 205th? Where is it etched in stone? Especially when trains to the yard are themselves backed up.Oh yes, then a (D) comes in, n/b local track, goes to 205th via switching to the S/B local track. We know what that means, don't we now. Same train comes back. So, the long & short of it: travel at that time on the (B) & (D) stinks, as noted in the first post of this thread. I live here and see it almost daily. Train fan true,but not afraid to call a spade a spade. Mentioned in this thread was the changing positions on the 205thstreet relay. There is a second operator in the rear car to take the train back to 205th after recharging. |
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| (1310215) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 15:00:54 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:18:01 2014. Back then, yes. Now the middle track is used to bring certain (B)'s back to 145th and beyond. In fact, some (B)'s enter center track at 145th after the a.m. rush, then continue n/b to BPB. At BPB, its anyone's guess which track trains will arrive on.During the a.m. rush, s/b platform was packed with waiting passengers. S/B (D) arrives on N/B local track, making it necessary for passengers to climb over to N/B track. Train then, of course, continues on its merry way south via the center track, as normal. Why can't some N/B (B) trains go all the way to 205th, then either lay up to the yard or return south, preferably with passengers. Yes, you can see it all on the Concourse. jrc |
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| (1310221) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 15:51:02 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 15:00:54 2014. If D's are late enough they will even cross trains north of Bedford Park to the Southbound track and "wrong rail" to 205th which eliminates the need to relay at 205. T/O Change ends or if time is still tight to make interval the switchman will get on and bring the train down to BDP. There's a lot of flexibility at BDP. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Sun Aug 31 16:18:56 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 15:51:02 2014. I used to ride the D in the late evenings on weeknights, there were several occasions that the train went up to 205th on the southbound track. One time, it was a garbage collection train of Redbirds and R32's holding up the line. I caught a D at 34th Street after the garbage train left, and there were delays on the trip up to 205th. Other times when there were delays, they would have the train run express on the local track, from 59th to 125th (even 145th), but each time I rode the train when that happened, it would terminate at 205th on the southbound track. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:41:13 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 13:18:01 2014. Never did that myself, but if you're talking about the tail end of AM rush after the S/B's were going out on the local out of BPB, then that would make sense. Between D's going to the yard directly out of 205, it did get a bit bottlenecked there when it was time for putting both lines to sleep. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:43:26 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 15:00:54 2014. It was common to use the Y at 205 and send whatever came in on the N/B track straight to the yard without moving onto the relay tracks. Needed a switchman waiting there though for that to work. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:53:57 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 14:52:44 2014. Back in my time, there were usually only 2 switchmen assigned to 205. Problem was that they'd get to do the yard layup too, so very often you had to do your own relay back there because there was nobody on the other end. And greets from a former resident of 204 and Webster. :) |
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| (1310240) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 18:34:31 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:53:57 2014. Now there's always a switchman on the other end at least in the PM's. I think I've only had to do my own relay once. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 18:37:17 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by mcorivervsaf on Sun Aug 31 16:18:56 2014. They do that to save time not doing the relay. They call it "going over the top" |
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| (1310243) | |
Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 18:47:35 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 18:34:31 2014. It was really hit or miss when I came in, more often than not I was alone even for rush hour. In fact, it was even worse for rush because we were so short of people.I came in at a very interesting time. MTA had just taken over the Transit Authority and anyone who had enough time in was hitting the silk and bailing out on the word that the LIRR was taking over the subway. :) I only had months in probation as a conductor before I went up to motors and we were still short. MMI's were doing revenue runs and instead of getting yard duty out of schoolcar, right into revenue. Lots of ABD's because there wasn't a crew. So the luxury of switchmen was just that too. Interesting and amusing times. (grin) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 19:15:47 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 18:47:35 2014. Wow I can imagine short of manpower switchmen were sent down the road more than actually switching...lol Now a days ABD is a dirty word with dispatchers. I've heard they are penalized if they do too many ABD's not 100% sure tho. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 19:20:35 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 19:15:47 2014. If nobody's there to charge up, it ain't gonna move itself.Unless it was a 44 back in the P-wire days. :) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 31 19:24:44 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 19:20:35 2014. For real.A very nasty habit they had. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 19:27:16 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 31 19:24:44 2014. They cut that stuff loose REAL fast. I remember about your pops. :(Best one was an F that took off out of 179 with pax, and the DOORS OPEN! :) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 31 20:03:58 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 19:27:16 2014. LIRR and S.I cars had the same pwire system,yet didn't suffer the same failures constantly like the NYCT did. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 20:17:21 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 31 20:03:58 2014. Yeah, hard to say what happened there, but then again no other railroad has the tight radii of NYCT nor the lack of cleaning up things. Then there was the issue of mounting the electric portions over to the sides of the couplers instead of under them which meant things would be stressed a whole lot more.I'm just glad I got out of there before THAT crap came on board. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 20:36:43 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:43:26 2014. Last I spoke to someone at 205th he said one track was out of service. That was a few years ago.jrc |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 20:42:56 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:53:57 2014. There were several time in the 70's, when I was living in Eastchester section. Coming home from Manhattan, I would get off at 205th & catch the Bx16. Due to congestion at 205thm trains would go into CCY, reverse and then go into 205th. Lots of fun then.jrc |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 20:43:36 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 20:36:43 2014. I remember hearing about that. I think it was signal work on the S/B IIRC. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 20:49:33 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 20:42:56 2014. Yeah, the trackage between the two stations offered many chances to win and many chances to fail as well. :)205 was never intended to be a terminal, but once it became one, they did some very interesting things to make it workable. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Aug 31 20:59:26 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Edwards! on Sun Aug 31 20:03:58 2014. Actually, the LIRR M-1s had quite a few P wire failures when they were new! |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Gene B. on Sun Aug 31 21:01:23 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 30 20:46:33 2014. She travels northbound well before 9AM. Why the Kingsbridge Rd. delay at that hour? |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 21:09:59 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Gene B. on Sun Aug 31 21:01:23 2014. I have no idea. I'm just reporting that I observed the same. I took the B north through BPB at 8:15 and south at 9:30 and saw serious delays both ways. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:15:52 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 21:09:59 2014. It's not unusual though for the Bronx to get the short end of the stick in transit, that was one of the primary reasons for my decision to move upstate. It was particularly noticeable when I was able to get from Poughkeepsie to the city in about the same amount of time that it took from Norwood. :( |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 31 22:01:16 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 21:15:52 2014. Well, on the other hand, Woodlawn to midtown is one of the really quick subway rides. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 31 23:43:47 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Sun Aug 31 19:15:47 2014. Terminal Dispatchers work with available manpower. If the Crew Office does not assign enough coverage and the T/D get an extra board T/O or get a finishing crew to make an additional trip, then he can only have an ABD. Of course he can claim that the train was defective and have the ABD charged to Car Equipment, but in real terms, it's the Line Supt. who answers when he doesn't meet his "Through-Put" goals. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 00:03:52 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 17:53:57 2014. 204th & Webster. Do you remember the "el"? ;) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 00:58:14 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Mon Sep 1 00:03:52 2014. Sure do! Stop was right outside my house. :) |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 03:45:52 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Train Dude on Sun Aug 31 23:43:47 2014. Oh ok makes sense. I know dispatchers eill do whayever possible to avoid ABD's now a days in a lot of ways. I guess since the supt is accountable that pressure rolls downhill to the dispatchers. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Sep 1 04:12:02 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 03:45:52 2014. And down to you if you're the last one to say "nuh-uh" ... WAA? Better take it. :(That made me crazy there even if the OT was good. Some dispatchers absolutely would not take no for an answer, even if you were about to outlaw on hours. :( |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:57:35 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by r17-6599 on Sun Aug 31 14:52:44 2014. Congestion into and out of BPB is bad because the D train is probably running at it's shortest headway (every 6 minutes) around this time. That's why some D trains don't even go to 205th St.Blame the idiots who made the Concourse IND a 3 track line. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:59:48 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 31 20:49:33 2014. The main problem with 205th St is that trains must be fumigated before they can relay east of the station, which is a time consumer. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Sep 1 08:52:50 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 1 06:57:35 2014. Not understanding why BPB can't turn a B train every 6 minutes and 2-5th turn a D every 6 minutes. Sounds like unavailability of crews is the actual reason. |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by jabrams on Mon Sep 1 10:12:50 2014, in response to Re: Bronx D Train Question, posted by FtGreeneG on Mon Sep 1 03:45:52 2014. For us non-MTA people, what is an "ABD"? |
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Re: Bronx D Train Question |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Sep 1 11:27:48 2014, in response to Bronx D Train Question, posted by Gene B. on Sat Aug 30 20:19:25 2014. What other New York subway routes also has mid route reliefs? |
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