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| Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street (1304053) | |
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| (1304899) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 11:40:17 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 28 12:55:41 2014. Not so, as it would actually be cannibalized by the Second Ave subway, and become a part of the Southern end of the Second Ave Trunk line. It would be like the lower Manhattan part of any of the other Trunk lines. The reason people don't want the Nassau line now, is because it doesn't go anywhere. If it was the sourthen end of the SAS trunk line, it WOULD go somewhere just like any of the other trunk line's Lower Manhattan ends. In essence, the Nassau line name would cease to exist, and it would actually be a part of the SAS. |
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| (1304900) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 11:40:28 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 28 12:55:41 2014. A Second Avenue line that uses Nassau Street would suffer the same problem: People coming from uptown wouldn't want to go to Nassau StreetNot so, as it would actually be cannibalized by the Second Ave subway, and become a part of the Southern end of the Second Ave Trunk line. It would be like the lower Manhattan part of any of the other Trunk lines. The reason people don't want the Nassau line now, is because it doesn't go anywhere. If it was the sourthen end of the SAS trunk line, it WOULD go somewhere just like any of the other trunk line's Lower Manhattan ends. In essence, the Nassau line name would cease to exist, and it would actually be a part of the SAS. |
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| (1304903) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 11:49:34 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Wed Jul 30 11:34:46 2014. Connecting to the Nassau Street line would be expensive and disruptive. Unless you plan to have both used simultaneously at some point, there's no point planning to build both. |
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| (1304905) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 11:51:44 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Tue Jul 29 16:47:44 2014. And why would they continue to take the 4 or 5 if the T running via Nassau is closer to Water St than the 4 and 5 are?The 4 and 5 are express and perceived as faster. Nassau isn't so much closer than Broadway that it is much of a difference. |
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| (1304906) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 11:53:18 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 11:40:17 2014. But it would not "go somewhere." 2nd Avenue still won't be as important as the other lines. |
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| (1304909) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 12:22:51 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 11:53:18 2014. But it will be the direct connection to lower Manhattan for the SAS trunk line. Just as any of the other lines have their direct connection to lower Manhattan on their respective trunk lines. The Nassau Line sucks now, because it's only about 5 stations, goes no where else in Manhattan. |
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| (1304910) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 12:24:24 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 11:49:34 2014. It would be cheaper than deep boring more tunnel, where we have existing extremely underutilized infrastructure already all there. It wouldn't be any more disruptive than when they extended any of the other BMT station platforms on the other lines. |
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| (1304911) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 12:27:25 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 12:24:24 2014. I assume you would tie it in at Christie/Delancey? That would be a major project given that there already is a junction there and multiple levels of subway. |
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| (1304933) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jul 30 15:15:22 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 12:27:25 2014. the problem most of you are overlooking is the unfinished portions of the Chrystie st project that were built just for this. |
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| (1304939) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 30 15:44:32 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Jul 27 14:31:46 2014. The station has been shut on weekends for so long that when they started, security in Lower Manhattan was almost a non-issue. |
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| (1304941) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 15:52:25 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jul 30 12:27:25 2014. Actually it may make more sense between Bowery and Canal. |
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| (1304952) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 30 17:34:39 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 15:52:25 2014. Disclaimer: I'm going to try to avoid sounding like Wallyhorse, As while I admit these ideas are possible, I'm not saying this is what should happen.SAS tunnel slides east at Houston street under Forsyth, then hard right under Delancy. Ramp up taking two tracks from the Centre Street line. which should not be disruptive since the J and Z only use two. They can't take the whole closed side as that would mess everything up, so they would ether need to take J1 and J4 or J3-4 and the ex-J3 trackbed. To accomplish this you would need to thru connect the J1 and ex J3 to the old loop bridge line tracks, this gives both lines clear access to Chambers street, where one can terminate without getting in the way of the other. If SAS takes the outer tracks, T takes over the line full time between Chambers and Broad and continues to Brooklyn, and J bounces back and forth depending on needs and service frequency, like the Brown M days. Inner Tracks, J stays as is and it's the T does "the Nassau (M)" dance. Though I will go on record saying I think the Water Street line would be more useful |
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| (1304953) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 17:34:48 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Ray Jules on Sun Jul 27 14:37:34 2014. Right, though it's the 2/3 and A/C since they can transfer to the 4/5/6 at Chambers and the 6 (and N/Q/R) at Canal. |
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| (1304955) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 17:43:35 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jul 30 15:15:22 2014. That is true. There are parts that can be used:For the Nassau connection, I was thinking where Canal Street would be configured back to where the currently-abandoned northbound platform would be re-activated with the (J) coming in on the "local" track there while the (T) would come in on the "express" track before the trains merge going to Chambers and through the Montauge tunnel, possibly even in rush hours with the (J)/(Z) extended to 9th Avenue (to avoid delaying the (T) at Broad) while the (T) goes via the West End to Bay Parkway. If such a connection also allows the (T) to use the "express" tracks at Bowery (with the (J) on the "local" track), that would be even better. |
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| (1304997) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 20:33:22 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 30 17:34:39 2014. That is exactly as I'm saying:I had in another post said (J) on the outer "local" tracks and (T) on the inner "express" tracks, however, if it works better to have the (J) on the inside tracks and (T) on the outside tracks at Bowery and Canal Street before/after merging/un-merging going to/coming from Chambers Street, that works too. Main thing is getting the SAS to Brooklyn so it helps relieve pressure on the (4)/(5) between Atlantic-Barclays and 125th Street. |
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| (1304998) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed Jul 30 20:36:04 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 20:33:22 2014. Well there's a difference between saying "There's no way to do it", and "that we should do it" |
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| (1304999) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 20:40:56 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 12:22:51 2014. Actually six stations, but the point is well taken:The idea here is the (T) would connect to the existing Nassau Street Line (except for likely Essex Street), which would all the (T) to continue to Brooklyn after lower Manhattan (most likely to Bay Parkway, the old (T)/(TT)'s terminal. I'd also be looking at having it so the current Broadway-Brooklyn line can also connect to the SAS so you can potentially down the road also have a Broadway-Brooklyn train run via the SAS. This likely would also make for getting all of the Manhattan stations on the current Nassau line to handle 600' trains and eventually the same for all stations (at least that the (M) serves) in Brooklyn and Queens (so at least the (M) can be a 600' train on 6th Avenue). |
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| (1305000) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 30 20:41:15 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 20:33:22 2014. I assume you have a copy of Peter Dougherty's, "Tracks of the New York City Subway"??? Right? |
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| (1305013) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 21:45:58 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jul 30 20:41:15 2014. I look at the track maps that are on the nycsubway.org site. I use that as a guide for this. |
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| (1305014) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 21:46:58 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 11:40:28 2014. Exactly:The current Nassau Line would become SAS South, with the (J) branching off to the Broadway-Brooklyn line after The Bowery while the SAS continued uptown. |
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| (1305055) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jul 31 06:43:42 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 17:43:35 2014. No need for two services going south of Broad from Nassau. Only the T would go. |
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| (1305312) | |
Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Aug 1 00:53:02 2014, in response to Re: Coming soon: Weekend (J) train service extension to Broad Street, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jul 30 11:40:28 2014. he knows that...he's playing the "devils advocate.." |
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| (1305315) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Fri Aug 1 01:01:34 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jul 31 06:43:42 2014. That is true:If the (T) went to the current Nassau Line (which would become the southern portion of the SAS), you could then reverse what I wrote and have the (J) come in on the "express" tracks at The Bowery and Canal before staying on there and terminating at Chambers while the (T) comes in on the "local" tracks at those stations and uses the current (J) track southbound and old (J) track northbound. That actually would be easiest in that scenario since the (J) can come in/leave on the "express" tracks while the (T) continues uninterrupted to Broad and then Brooklyn. |
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| (1305441) | |
Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Aug 1 15:47:16 2014, in response to Re: Nasssu Street Connection to SAS, posted by Wallyhorse on Wed Jul 30 21:45:58 2014. Get a copy of his book! You will see the difficulties of tying in the SAS to the Nassau St line, firsthand. Perhaps you would be less dreamy, if you saw the actual trackage in Peter Dougherty excellent track drawings! |
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