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In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014

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Despite the push to construct a linear park along the former Rockaway Beach rail line — and stiff opposition to anything being built there from some residents living alongside it — supporters of reactivating train service from Rego Park to Rockaway Beach still believe their idea is the best for Queens, and say it’s completely feasible.

It’s been 52 years since service stopped on the line between Rego Park and Ozone Park. South of there, the A train occupies the right of way into the Rockaways. Residents there say elimination of the service has left the peninsula stagnant for half a century.

“People complain about overdevelopment, but Rockaway is undeveloped,” said Phil McManus, a Rockaway resident and founder of the Queens Public Transit Committee, a group whose main focus is reactivation of the rail line, but also supports increased public transportation options across the borough.

McManus has organized a number of Rockaway residents, civic leaders and other rail supporters from South Queens to form the QPTC.

They argue the commute times for Rockaway and South Queens residents to jobs in Manhattan are too long, which takes time away from family, hobbies, volunteer work and even creates issues at work.

And despite the progress made toward the proposed QueensWay park, they insist their idea is real. It had the support of two South Queens members of Congress, Reps. Greg Meeks (D-Jamaica) and Hakeem Jeffries (D-Brooklyn, Queens), as well as Assemblyman Phil Goldfeder (D-Rockaway Park).

“If we want to improve Queens transportation and stimulate economic growth for future development of our borough, the complete rehabilitation and restoration of the abandoned Rockaway Beach Rail Line is our best option,” Goldfeder said.

Carol McEvoy joined QPTC because she has personal experience with long commutes. She has a part-time job in Manhattan and it takes her more than two hours to get there.
“When I had a full-time job, it was worse,” she said. “I had to drive because taking public transportation took too long.”
She noted that driving didn’t save much time because the traffic on Woodhaven and Cross Bay boulevards is often bad at rush hour, nor did it save much money because of the toll on the Cross Bay Veterans Memorial Bridge.

Support for the rail plan goes beyond the Rockaways. Hamilton Beach resident John Fazio, a member of Community Board 10, said restored train service would help his neighborhood, especially with a station there. Hamilton Beach had one before the 1950s.

“Back then, it took 18 minutes to get to Penn Station from Hamilton Beach,” Fazio said. “Now it takes over an hour.”

Some Rockaway residents even commute to Brooklyn by bus over the Marine Parkway Bridge to connect to the subway there because its quicker than taking the A train from the peninsula.

Vishnu Mahadeo, executive director of the Richmond Hill Economic Development Corp., said the rail would help his neighborhood and its working people.

“Richmond Hill residents also have long commutes,” he said. “A park is nice, but what we need is jobs and easy access to those jobs.”

He noted that besides taking a long time, the A train, the only subway line that serves South Richmond Hill, is overcrowded.

McManus said the line would not only help his community, but others across Queens. Besides a quicker commute to Manhattan, Rockaway residents would be connected to other Queens neighborhoods like Jamaica, Flushing, Long Island City and Bayside, with just one train transfer.

“It will be a boost for the entire borough,” McManus said.

Both he and Lew Simon, a Democratic district leader and former City Council candidate, said that developments on the right of way would be easy to reclaim.

“They’re squatting on the land,” Simon alleged. “They have no rights to it. The city can come anytime and force them to move.”

Nevertheless, he says he doesn’t have anything against the QueensWay and would like to see both plans happen.

“There is no reason why we can’t coexist,” Simon said. “We can have both a park and rail. It can be done. All we’re asking for is equal treatment.”
http://www.qchron.com/editions/south/in-south-queens-rail-backers-still-pushing/article_8d706087-4d72-534a-98bc-e2bcbf47d62d.html

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:10:58 2014, in response to In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014.

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“We can have both a park and rail. It can be done. All we’re asking for is equal treatment.”

That would be interesting... if Queens Way and Rail proponents joined forces to get both projects done.

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(1304414)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by The Silence on Mon Jul 28 02:22:26 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:10:58 2014.

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the existing ROW is not big enough for both.

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(1304415)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:31:30 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by The Silence on Mon Jul 28 02:22:26 2014.

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They could turn the line into a cut and cover subway, and put a park above it. That would also satisfy the anti-rail NIMBYs.

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(1304416)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Ray Jules on Mon Jul 28 02:43:17 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:31:30 2014.

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And cost billions.

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(1304417)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:46:04 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Ray Jules on Mon Jul 28 02:43:17 2014.

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How so? The SAS costs billions but that is deep bore through an area with countless utilities. This is literally digging a hole in a forest, except for the road crossings. You could get two guys with one backhoe to do 90% of it.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 28 02:56:41 2014, in response to In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014.

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How do they propose running LIRR trains out to the Rockaways when the line is used by the subway?

Returning the Rockaway line to the LIRR would mean higher fares and almost certainly reduced service.

Building a new line for the LIRR trains would be absurdly expensive.

Restoring the post-1956 service (LIRR trains terminate at Ozone Park) would be largely pointless and certainly wouldn't help the Rockaways.

Converting the Rockaway line to subway usage as far as Rego Park would be pointless since those trains would have nowhere to go— the Queens Boulevard line is the only obvious route to Manhattan and it's already at capacity.

Running LIRR trains to the Rockaways on the existing subway tracks alongside the A will happen over the FRA's dead body.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 28 08:26:52 2014, in response to In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014.

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I agree with reactivating this line. I don't even think the park plan is serious- it's just a fancy roadblock being thrown up to prevent rail service here.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 28 08:44:46 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:46:04 2014.

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Two guys and one backhoe would take many, many years.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by andy on Mon Jul 28 09:46:08 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 28 02:56:41 2014.

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Yes the Queens Blvd. Line is at full train capacity, but there's a way to incorporate a future line from Rockaway. Just east (operationally north) of the 63rd Drive Station there's a turnout in the tunnel wall that was built to allow the old LIRR line to be connected (done in 1933). It only connects to the local tracks. Simply reroute the M train (which does not operate at full passenger capacity in and out of Forest Hills) to go to Rockaway. The M would lose its only its last two current stops on Queens Blvd. (67th Ave. and 71st Ave.) It creates a true round-the-world train route from Middle Village, through Brooklyn, Mid-Manhattan, and Rego Park all the way to Rockaway. The only station that loses service is 67th Ave., which will only have the R train. The Rockaway passengers would also have a transfer to the J at Jamaica Ave. (old Brooklyn Manor LIRR).

While I recognize that this route creates an all-local trip for the Rockaway folks it does provide a direct route to Midtown without going through Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan.

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(1304453)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 10:51:48 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 28 02:56:41 2014.

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It doesn't have to be LIRR service. It can (and should, logically) be an extension of the M or R train. Then convert Woodhaven Blvd into an express station, so Rockaway riders would have one less transfer to make.

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(1304455)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 10:57:33 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by andy on Mon Jul 28 09:46:08 2014.

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The express tracks are at capacity. The local tracks aren't, so extending the M or R down to the Rockaways really shouldn't be a problem. If Rockaway riders want Queens Blvd express service, then converting the Woodhaven Blvd station into an express stop can be done as a separate, but complementary, project. A three-seat ride would then become a two-seat ride.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Jul 28 11:27:58 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:31:30 2014.

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How would a subway-with-a-park-above-it get across the streets that the ROW crosses (or crossed) on overpasses?

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 11:36:19 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Jul 28 11:27:58 2014.

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Tunnel under the street. That would be the only complicated part.

The existing bridge could be fully parkified.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 28 11:53:14 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 10:51:48 2014.

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There is rumor that the Woodhaven Blvd station was built with provision to make it an express station.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 11:58:42 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 28 11:53:14 2014.

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Right. I heard about that too. That's why I suggested Woodhaven. Plus, it's already a major bus transfer point.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Jul 28 12:09:17 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 10:57:33 2014.

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I would convert Woodhaven to a 5-track express station as follows:

Northbound, existing local track D2 would shift to the right at the existing provision south of the station.

At this point, new track D6 would split from existing express track D4 via a 30mph switch*. Track D6 would occupy the existing trackway of the current local track D2 through the station.

The northbound platform would be converted into an island platform.

North of the station, tracks D2 and D6 will merge and continue on as existing track D2.


Southbound, no modifications to the station will be made. However, a 30mph switch will be installed to allow local trains on D1 track to switch to the D3 express track. This switch would be placed a sufficient distance from the station to allow a train to reach 30 MPH before the switch.

Track speed on the express tracks D3 and D4 is 36 MPH, so a small reduction of speed would be required for trains taking the switches. *In this context, a 30mph switch is a switch designed to allow trains to take the diverging route at a speed of 30 miles per hour.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by steamdriven on Mon Jul 28 12:25:01 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 28 02:56:41 2014.

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I am not familial enough with the technical and legal issues to comment on those, but there is a need for a commuter rail service in outer Queens and Brooklyn. If it's possible it should be done.

Subway service to those areas is slow -19th century slow- and beats up one's body if it's a local, as the constant sideways accelerations take something out of you, especially if you have health problems. I can recall driving from Norwalk to 14th street in Manhattan in an hour, a couple ticks over 60 miles. It takes longer than that to get from outer Queens or Brooklyn to Harlem.

I'd pay a few dollars to save an hour per day and sit down rather than stand while being jerked back'n forth.

As for the FRA, there may be ways to work around that. Once built I doubt they would shut down an operating NYC transit service over a technicality. Perhaps their metaphorical dead body can be placed under a section of a restored line ;-).

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Michael549 on Mon Jul 28 12:31:45 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Jul 28 12:09:17 2014.

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So let me get this straight, in your ideas for a 5-track local-express station - on the Queens-bound side there would be an island platform so that riders can transfer to/from the proposed Queens-Way version of the M-train. However on the Manhattan bound side of this proposed station, "Southbound, no modifications to the station will be made." In effect saying that there would be no island platform or any platform at all where the Manhattan-bound express trains would stop, or for riders to transfer to/from the express trains.

Is that really what you meant?

In NYC there has never been an local/express station where it possible to transfer between the local and express trains in one direction, but completely impossible in the other direction due to an non-installed platform.

Mike

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 28 12:41:30 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:31:30 2014.

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That would defeat much of the purpose of restoring the Rockaway Line. The whole idea is that the right of way and some of the infrastructure is already there. If you're going to tunnel, you might as well build a new line from scratch under Woodhaven Blvd or something.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 18:02:06 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Jul 28 02:31:30 2014.

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Exactly what I was thinking.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 18:17:10 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 10:57:33 2014.

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A few of the road crossings along the Rockaway row look 3 tracked. Perhaps they can have peak direction express service. G local, M Express.

No conversion of Woodhaven Blvd, they can transfer at Roosevelt for Express Service. The express trains fly through there, leave well enough alone.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by sloth on Mon Jul 28 18:31:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Nilet on Mon Jul 28 02:56:41 2014.

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Yeah, those are all pretty legit reasons why it's unlikely to ever happen. Plus the LIRR probably has less than zero interest in operating such a service, and as a subway, the express track capacity becomes a problem as soon as the entire Rockaway train transfers across the platform at Roosevelt to the E.

Since the cheapest option is to let the line sit and rust... that's what'll happen, right?

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:19:47 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Jul 28 11:53:14 2014.

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It was; examine the tunnel walls past either end of the station on either side.

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(1304535)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:26:10 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by sloth on Mon Jul 28 18:31:25 2014.

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The line doesn't have to be an LIRR service; moreover, why not revive the Queens Super Express proposal and connect this line (as subway) to the SAS?

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:42:05 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by The Silence on Mon Jul 28 02:22:26 2014.

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I disagree. Between Woodhaven Junction and the (A) line, it is wide enough; ROW is four tracks wide but you'd only need two. Use outer trackways for rail and inner trackways for park (park would run from about 97th Ave to Rockaway Blvd).

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 19:48:42 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:42:05 2014.

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This would be cool

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 19:52:16 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 18:17:10 2014.

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I'm pretty sure the entire Rockaway is 2 tracked to about Atlantic Av

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon Jul 28 20:03:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by steamdriven on Mon Jul 28 12:25:01 2014.

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"As for the FRA, there may be ways to work around that. Once built I doubt they would shut down an operating NYC transit service over a technicality."

There would be union turf fights & juristiction issues to be dealt with too.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:15:28 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by steamdriven on Mon Jul 28 12:25:01 2014.

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Many in the Rockaways can not afford LIRR prices. Unfortunately, it's going to have to be a local subway service. There are express tracks from about Broad Channel to about Woodhaven Blvd, so the best you could do is maybe have an express variation that skips all of 3 stops (Howard Beach, Aqueduct, and 103rd St), but that's about the best that can be done. perhaps in the area where it passes through the park the ROW can be widened to allow a 3rd track?

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:19:16 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 19:26:10 2014.

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I've been a fan of that idea, but it would have to be single track along some stretches of the Lower Montauk since they still need 1 track for the freight operations. I wonder what the max frequency could be.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:28:47 2014, in response to In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Gold_12th on Mon Jul 28 01:40:09 2014.

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The only perception problem with this line I see is that folks are expecting the speed of the LIRR service that used to operate there, and it's just not happening. If the line is to be activated with any hope of having decent travel times to midtown, it would more than likely have to be done as a 2 part project

Part I: Restore Rockaway line and connect to QB local. Send either the R or the M down to Rockaway (I guess Rock Park?). At BEST, you can have an express variation of service skipping all of 3 stops (Howard Beach, Aqueduct, and 103rd St) and you still have everyone bailing at Roosevelt for the QB express

Part II: Convert one of the tracks on the Lower Montauk to subway (would FRA even allow subway and freight to run on adjacent tracks so close to each other?). Where ever the ROW is wide enough, place a 3rd track (2 for subway, 1 for freight). Connect to SAS via 63rd St. Not quite sure just how frequent this could run, but I can't see them elevating/burying the Lower Montauk without major community problems or massive expenses. Hell, it'd probably be the only subway service that you'd actually follow a schedule to ride (would 10 min headways even be possible?)

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 20:30:56 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 18:17:10 2014.

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I disagree about "leaving well enough alone," because in this case, it's not. I ride the Queens Blvd line every day and while it's nice that the E and F trains fly through there, it's not so nice that they sit at Roosevelt Ave loading riders from the previous five local stops and the 7 train on relatively narrow island platforms. Not to mention all the buses that to QBL Local-only stop who then transfer to the E and F at Roosevelt. And what if a Rockaway branch subway gets more riders than the Woodhaven Blvd local and limited buses currently do?

That's why converting Woodhaven to express is strongly worth considering. Sorry, but the way it is now, isn't well-enough.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Hart Bus on Mon Jul 28 20:43:40 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Jul 28 20:30:56 2014.

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Plus the Victor Moore above it with the three former TCC routes.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Hart Bus on Mon Jul 28 20:47:22 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Hart Bus on Mon Jul 28 20:43:40 2014.

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While the idea about reactivating the route sounds good how long would it take, where would the extra cars needed for this expanded capacity come from..... As Cuba Gooding once said "SHOW ME THE MONEY!"

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Jul 28 21:04:51 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 19:52:16 2014.

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you are correct.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 28 21:06:36 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:28:47 2014.

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The only perception problem with this line I see is that folks are expecting the speed of the LIRR service that used to operate there

How fast was that line? Most likely that a subway service would have comparable speed to the MP54s that used to run through on a local service.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 21:19:56 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Hart Bus on Mon Jul 28 20:47:22 2014.

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They'd just have to order the cars while it's under construction.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by TUNNELRAT on Mon Jul 28 21:36:16 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jul 28 21:19:56 2014.

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here`s a reality check,it ain`t gonna happen!

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by sloth on Mon Jul 28 22:38:56 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 28 21:06:36 2014.

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From old timetables on Arrt's Archives-- 21 minutes LIC to Ozone Park in 1908, 24 minutes Penn to Ozone in 1927. Those are pretty fast times. I've been unable to find what the top speed was on the branch of yet.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 23:05:51 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:19:16 2014.

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Lower Montauk? I was thinking the vacant outer trackways along the LIRR Main Line that the Rockaway Beach line once used. Things get tricky west of the junction with the Port Washington branch, however...

Visit my blog!

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 29 01:29:33 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Concourse Express on Mon Jul 28 23:05:51 2014.

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Precisely why I wouldn't both with using the main. That's a hell of a stretch for things to be tricky on. While single tracking on any portion of a rapid transit line is never ideal, using the Lower Montauk gets the trains there and also allows for the opportunity of opening a couple of stations in the neighborhoods along it (Glendale, Fresh Pond) to provide them with service they otherwise wouldn't have.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue Jul 29 01:30:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 28 21:06:36 2014.

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Yeah, except the local LIRR service was making stops equivalent to an express subway.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 29 02:32:49 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by andy on Mon Jul 28 09:46:08 2014.

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That's what I was thinking. Run the M to Rockaway Park, or alternate it between Rockaway Park and Howard Beach. If you really want to push it, you can also extend the G to Forest Hills, since the M will no longer be terminating there, thus freeing some slots there. At nights and weekends, when the M is just a shuttle, run the G to Rockaway Park or Howard Beach. As for the Rockaway Park shuttle, run it when nothing else is going to Rockaway Park, or discontinue it.

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Re: Rockaway Beach Line

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:48:43 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by andy on Mon Jul 28 09:46:08 2014.

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A said before on this, my plan for making the Rockaway Branch would involve a few changes on other lines (and assumes the SAS would already be in place by the time this happens):

The biggest (which I know would upset some old-time people with the MTA but 99% of the general public would not get why) is to have the (D) and (R) switch terminals in Brooklyn.

The (D) would run 95th Street in Brooklyn-205th Street in the Bronx and replace the (R) between 36th and 95th as a local in Brooklyn. This is mainly because the (D) has Concourse Yard in the Bronx (this also gives Bay Ridge riders a 24/7 line).

The (N) would become a part-time Astoria line, running weekdays 5:30 AM-10:00 PM to Astoria. The rest of the time, the (N) would go with the (Q) and terminate at 96th Street-2nd Avenue (later 125th-Lexington Avenue) to supplement the (Q) through one of the most densely populated parts of Manhattan.

The (R) would move to the West End Line in order to have a yard at Coney Island because it would also return to being the full-time Astoria line as it was prior to 1987. The (R) would return to running 24/7 in this case.

The (W) would be brought back as the Rockaway Beach line and run from Whitehall Street to Rockaway Park, eliminating the need for the Rockaway Park (S) as it would be a 24/7 line. The line would be as such because it would begin in what is still considered The Financial District to many outside New York, which could help in getting Genting (which runs the Casino at Aqueduct and is based out of Malaysia) to endorse the return of this line.

This is how I would do it.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:53:25 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 29 02:32:49 2014.

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My plan as noted elsewhere would be to have a new (W) running Whitehall Street-Rockaway Park. Main reason for doing it this way would be to get Genting (which runs the Casino at Aqueduct) on board since lower Manhattan is still considered to many outside of New York to be "The Financial District" (Genting is based in Malaysia).

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:57:55 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jul 28 20:15:28 2014.

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My plan would actually rebuild the fourth track (something I would be looking to do anyway) and build a new island platform at Aqueduct-North Conduit and/or the Racetrack station (with a new southbound platform at the Racetrack station if so), mainly so Aqueduct can be used as a terminal if necessary and also so there can be "Racino Express" trains on weekends via the (A). Also doing so would allow for addtional trackage on the Rockaway Beach branch if it got rebuilt.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 02:58:59 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by sloth on Mon Jul 28 18:31:25 2014.

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More than likely because as has been posted before here, there are some properties that illegally encroach the line and there will be those that will be fearful of losing their property because of that.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 29 03:00:17 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 28 08:26:52 2014.

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And if so, because people I believe (as has been posted here before) having property illegally encroaching the line they could lose if anything else is done.

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Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line

Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Tue Jul 29 03:04:13 2014, in response to Re: In South Queens, rail backers still pushing for old Rockaway Beach line, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 28 08:26:52 2014.

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I hope it does get reactivated!!!

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