|
|
| Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge (1303961) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1303961) | |
Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014 Green Hornet |
|
|
| (1303966) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 25 08:47:33 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. Wow, that is an amazing photo!!! |
|
|
| (1303972) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Jul 25 10:04:00 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Jul 25 08:47:33 2014. I like the one guy's comment about seeing white flags at the tops of the towers! |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1303973) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 10:19:00 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. I didn't know the Green Hornet did Brooklyn Bridge service. |
|
|
| (1303984) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 25 13:58:23 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. Wow...yes indeed, amazing photo!I wonder if this was taken dduring regular service, or by a news photographer, as it approached Park Row for its inaugral run and display for the press? In Subway Cars of the BMT, there is a Daily News clipping (page 98) that shows the Green Hornet inside Park Row with on-lookers on the platform beside it. |
|
|
| (1303986) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 14:08:56 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 10:19:00 2014. The green hornet as well as the Bluebird made regular runs on the Fulton St el between Lefferts and Park Row. I have heard that the Zephyr made one experimental run on Fulton but unlike the Green Hornet and Bluebird, never ran there in regular service. |
|
|
| (1303989) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Fri Jul 25 14:34:42 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars for da Green Hornet.chud1. :).... |
|
|
| (1303997) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 15:18:27 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 14:08:56 2014. So did the first set of Multis, on their inagaural run, in the summer of 1936! |
|
|
| (1304021) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 25 16:49:26 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. Nice. Green Hornet pictures are rare because the set saw such a short service life (less than 8 years). IIRC it was mothballed at 39th St yard before someone from the War Department noticed that it was a giant pile of very useful aluminum (scrap aluminum was rare because it was expensive). |
|
|
| (1304027) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 17:11:52 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 14:08:56 2014. That's really a shame, because it showed that metal-bodied train cars were feasible even then for the lighter el lines and the Brooklyn Bridge. I've felt lately that the route to Park Row should have been kept for somebody like the LIRR, if only their cars were light enough for the bridge to handle it. |
|
|
| (1304028) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 17:20:52 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 25 13:58:23 2014. With an end sign of Times Square! |
|
|
| (1304029) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 17:32:48 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 14:08:56 2014. Did the BMT run the Zephyr very much at all? Even them only on the Franklin (7)I wonder what the odds would be, if you go back to 1938/39 to railfan for a couple of weeks, of finding either or both the Zephyr and Green Hornet running...or how long it would take to find them! |
|
|
| (1304032) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 17:41:15 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 17:11:52 2014. I'm not sure that the LIRR would have wanted it, by 1935, when Park Row was partially demolished. In 1920, 16,699,727 people used BMT tranins over the BB. By 1931, this had dwindled to 9,550,299, a decrease of 43%, in only 11 years. This resulted in the BMT building a tailtrack in 1932 for the center 2 tracks that used to connect to the 2 outer bridge tracks, just west of the main platforms. After the tailtrack was completed in November, 1932 (NOT in 1934!), the Sands Street Loop was also closed. |
|
|
| (1304036) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 17:55:23 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 15:18:27 2014. That wouldn't surprise me either. I wonder if there are any photos of it. |
|
|
| (1304037) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 17:58:44 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 17:32:48 2014. The Zephyr found a home on the Fkln Shuttle where it remained until its removal from service and eventual scrapping in the late 1950s. As is the case with some of the R-32s, both the Zephyr and the Bluebird were stored in Fresh Pond Yd prior to scrapping. |
|
|
| (1304039) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 18:03:26 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 17:41:15 2014. But it would have been a direct route to lower Manhattan, instead of having to terminate at Atlantic, then have people crowd into the subways. It would have helped take some of the heat off of Penn Station. |
|
|
| (1304042) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 18:06:40 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 17:58:44 2014. so it would be easier to find the Zephyr than the GH in 1938/9...correct? |
|
|
| (1304047) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 18:19:39 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 18:06:40 2014. AFAIK in 1938/39, the Green Hornet was still in regular service on Fulton. I have seen Photos of the Green Hornet on the Franklin Shuttle so it probably went there after Fulton shut down in 1940. According to most info, the unit suffered some mechanical problems and was sent to the BMT's main shop to be repaired and fitted with standard H2A drawheads to enable it to be used in trains with standard Multis. While it seems that the Green Hornet would have been compatible with standard Multis, the Zephyr was not since its brake system was very different from those on the Green Hornet and the Multis. I have some printed literature from the BMT on the operation of both the Green Hornet and the Zephyr and I can understand the Green Hornet's braking and propulsion systems relatively well, the brake system on the Zephyr leaves ma a bit baffled and it seems to be like nothing I've ever seen on any transit or RR system anywhere. |
|
|
| (1304057) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 19:18:29 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 18:03:26 2014. It wasn't the LIRR's call. The City's Dept of Bridges owned the tracks. As far back as the early 1930's the City wanted the BMT to terminate at Sands St and have its passengers use the streetcars. They wanted the entire Park Row el terminal gone, but settled for a partial demolition in 1935. Are you aware of who owned what- and why? |
|
|
| (1304062) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 25 19:35:56 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 18:19:39 2014. The Green Hornet Operating Instructions are posted on my site if anyone is interestedGreen Hornet Operating Instructions |
|
|
| (1304064) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 19:51:16 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 25 19:35:56 2014. cool! |
|
|
| (1304070) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 25 20:01:29 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 25 16:49:26 2014. George Votova's photos of the Green Hornet at Franklin Ave. on the Fulton St. el, were reprinted in Subway Cars of the BMT. It is great that we have these pictures of it, in regular service. |
|
|
| (1304072) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Fri Jul 25 20:08:46 2014, in response to Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri Jul 25 07:56:03 2014. There is an enlarged version of this photo on page 196 of Greller's new Brooklyn Elevated Equipment book. |
|
|
| (1304083) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 21:19:27 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 19:18:29 2014. No, not really. I know the LIRR wouldn't have any immediate stake in the el tracks, being a private entity and all, but I would think the termination of el service up to and including Park Row would have provided opportunities to buy and take over the structures and tracks. |
|
|
| (1304100) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 22:47:58 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jul 25 21:19:27 2014. You don't understand, so here goes: The City inherited the BB and all the stuff on it after the 1898 consolidation. The NYC Dept of Bridges now owned what the Bridge Board of Trustees once controlled. The lease of the cable tracks by the Kings county Elevated RR began in 1896. This lease continued after the KCERR was absorbed into the BRT. The terms os the lease continued under the NYC Dept of Bridges and the later BMT. One of the provisions is that either party could terminate the lease, without showing cause, with 3 months notice.By 1931, the City and the BMT observed the 43% drop in ridership for the BB els, for the past 11 years. The City wanted to eliminate ALL train traffic on the BB, with an el terminal at Sands St but after negotiations with the BMT, reached a compromise. The BMT would make a tailtrack out of its 2 middle tracks to/from the bridge approach. This, as well as the closing of the Sands St Loop, came about in November,1932. On the Manhattan side, Park Row was partially demolished in the summer of 1935. The City was NEVER interested in leasing/selling its bridge trackage rights to the LIRR, or to anyone else. It would have been happy with a BMT train terminal at Sands St, where riders would continue to Park Row (street- not terminal), via trolley. |
|
|
| (1304102) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jul 25 23:06:20 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 25 19:35:56 2014. Hey guy! And thanks for the view! :) |
|
|
| (1304113) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Express Rider on Sat Jul 26 01:20:53 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 22:47:58 2014. Thank you for this background!I've said it many times and I'll say it once again - detailed historic accounts such as yours, are the kind of material that should be in books & publications about the NYCTS. There have been several good histories so far, but none have the focussed amount of detail you find in various histories of the London Underground - what they dig up is awesome. We need that kind of attention to transit history here in NY. |
|
|
| (1304117) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat Jul 26 02:15:09 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by BMTLines on Fri Jul 25 19:35:56 2014. Looks like the same one that I have. |
|
|
| (1304122) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sat Jul 26 02:23:20 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 22:47:58 2014. OK, thanks! |
|
|
| (1304164) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 26 09:27:55 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by randyo on Fri Jul 25 17:58:44 2014. Had these trains not been 10' wide, they might have lasted longer operating on the Myrtle Ave el. |
|
|
| (1304166) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 26 09:36:13 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jul 25 18:06:40 2014. Neat.Something that always bothered me about the articulated trains. Wouldn't the use of fewer trucks actually make them LESS likely to run on the lightly built elevated lines, by concentrating more weight in fewer points? Seems to me that standard trucks would have spread it out more. |
|
|
| (1304167) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 26 09:40:58 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jul 25 22:47:58 2014. If true, why didn't the city terminate service 3 months after taking control in July 1940? Service lasted for another 4 years and only ended when Park Row was damaged by fire. |
|
|
| (1304185) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jul 26 11:27:54 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 26 09:40:58 2014. Park Row caught fire? Date please! I thought it was Bridge/Jay that caught fire, after it became the terminal. |
|
|
| (1304224) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Sat Jul 26 17:24:26 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Bob Andersen on Fri Jul 25 10:04:00 2014. LOL!! Those were for some yet to be named country.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1304247) | |
Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jul 26 20:15:35 2014, in response to Re: Facebook Photo (Link): Green Hornet Approaching Brooklyn Bridge, posted by Express Rider on Sat Jul 26 01:20:53 2014. Thanks, I have my moments! |
|
|
