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| (1289086) | |
end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014 http://pix11.com/2014/05/05/last-metro-north-bar-cars-to-be-phased-out-this-week/#axzz30mkq4naMEW YORK (PIX11) — It’s the last call for the Metro-North bar cars. The four remaining bar cars — a holdover from the “Mad Men” era of suburban commuting — and the last of their kind in the nation, will be taken out of service by the end of the week, PIX11 News has learned. For decades, the bar cars have been a refuge for weary New Haven-line riders. They’ve also been something of a time machine, featuring poles with bright orange and yellow beverage holders, faux wood paneling and wallpaper with a 1970s stagecoach motif, and ample floor space free of traditional rows of seating that encourage mingling among Connecticut commuters. Metro-North is apparently the last daily commuter train with a bar car in the country – not counting Amtrak’s full dining areas. In recent years, the number of bar cars has diminished as the MTA phased out the old trains in favor of sleek new M-8 trains, and the final four cars will be gone by week’s end, according to Connecticut Department of Transportation communications director Judd Everhart. The old M-2 cars, which entered service in 1973, had become so elusive that a fan created a website and Twitter feed to help commuters find the trains. There are already more than 300 M8s cars in service, and drinking is still permitted on the new models as well as all other trains, which don’t have a “cafe car,” as the MTA calls them. Read more: http://pix11.com/2014/05/05/last-metro-north-bar-cars-to-be-phased-out-this-week/#ixzz30tH5V0WA Read more at http://pix11.com/2014/05/05/last-metro-north-bar-cars-to-be-phased-out-this-week/#mjf3fp8gw4HxhAQE.99 |
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| (1289088) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 20:50:21 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. A moment of silence is in order here. The passing of a tradition of railroading is going the way of the steam engine, the smoker & the flip back seats.However, the Connecticut clientele still likes to embibe en route to their fine trimmed lawns & I'd be willing to wage that they put bar carts in a few of the M-8s, lock out the doors & put them there by the locked out doors. If the bartenders union has any (high)balls,they'd insist that no jobs are lost & send some platform carts to the trains. Its the Connecticut customers that keeps the MN commissary making money. Always did, always will. Whenever the market takes a hit, commissary sales go thru the roof! |
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| (1289089) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:56:45 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 20:50:21 2014. its now illegal to lock out doors unless they are truly defective. due to train crash in Maryland years ago. |
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| (1289092) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 5 21:07:51 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. 
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| (1289098) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 5 21:47:18 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. The boozer cruisers encourage drinkin' 'n' drivin' because the majority of commuters drive to/from the station. |
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| (1289101) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 21:54:42 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:56:45 2014. That I did not know. Never too late to learn something. |
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| (1289102) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 21:59:52 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 5 21:47:18 2014. A "boozer" needs no encouragement. Anyone who wants booze will get it, bar car or not. Just stock up before you get on the train.The only way to truly stop drinking & driving is to outlaw cars. Outlawing booze was tried & did not work. |
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| (1289104) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 5 22:10:35 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 21:59:52 2014. Yes, and on the MARC train to Martinsburg WV riders bringentire case of cold beer. It isn't pretty. That said, if the drinkers on the New Haven (CDOT/MNRR) want to keep the bar cars, they know what to do. It is sad given that this was in NH days the ONLY so called dining car service on any Class 1 that actually made money. |
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| (1289106) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 22:23:39 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 5 22:10:35 2014. BTW...Do they have a deposit law in WV?? A rush hour train enroute to Poughkeepsie is full of empty beer & soda cans. At Poke, the car cleaners fight each other to get on the train to retrieve the emptys while the passengers are getting off, kinda reminding one of salmon swimming upstream.I've seen some of those car cleaners get off the train lookin like Santa Clause with full black plastic garbage bags toted over their shoulders headed for the deposit machine to cash in...all tax free!! |
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| (1289107) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by nostalgia on Mon May 5 22:36:41 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:56:45 2014. What train crash in Maryland? Do you mean a MARC local hitting Amtrak's Cap Ltd head on? |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon May 5 22:45:32 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 22:23:39 2014. Don't know. I only rode outbound to WV. |
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| (1289109) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 23:00:25 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. The bar cars are listed in the timetable, but does anybody know which trains carry the bar cars into Grand Central? I've already got railfan window video from a New Haven-bound train and if I can figure out which inbound trains carry the bar cars, I can grab a railfan window for a Grand Central-bound train. |
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| (1289110) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 5 23:06:30 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. RIP, drunk tank. :(
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| (1289130) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 04:05:36 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by nostalgia on Mon May 5 22:36:41 2014. yes |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 05:53:33 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 23:00:25 2014. They have to but they are closed/unattended. I'm sure they need then to run in the AM rush as the mate is a regular car and they have to get them in place for PM service. One weekend I rode inside one, nice seats but of course it was not open for business. |
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| (1289137) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 6 06:28:01 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 21:59:52 2014. Yeah, but if the MTA supplies it, or facilitates it, it's liable. They don't care about drunk driving, they care about being sued for it. |
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| (1289142) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 07:13:31 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Mon May 5 23:00:25 2014. What is the significance of a railfan window video captured from a train containing a bar car? |
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| (1289143) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue May 6 07:33:18 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 22:23:39 2014. I've seen some of those car cleaners get off the train lookin like Santa ClauseWhat makes you think that it wasn't Santa Claus. Everyone rides Metro-North. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1289156) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue May 6 08:43:40 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Mon May 5 21:59:52 2014. A "boozer" needs no encouragement. Anyone who wants booze will get it, bar car or not. Just stock up before you get on the train.The only way to truly stop drinking & driving is to outlaw cars. Outlawing booze was tried & did not work. Prohibiting drinking on the train might be step in the right direction. |
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| (1289159) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 08:51:01 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Here's a thought, rescue all of them for Fan trips throughout all of the MTA SYSTEM That is MetroNorth, LIRR, and Conn DOT.      |
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| (1289160) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 08:54:55 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue May 6 08:43:40 2014. There is a contradiction where for special days like New Years Eve and St. Paddy's Day MTA does not allow alcohol on the trains yet other times they allow it?Specifically referring to the existence of portable bar carts by the bumper blocks of GCT during the PM rush. |
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| (1289161) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 09:00:41 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 5 23:06:30 2014. I can just picture in my minds eye, Katherine Hepburn, in a forest green evening gown, diamond broach on the left shoulder strap, cigarette in her left hand, while sitting on the piano, singing with her gravelly throat, with breath like kerosene. One more thing, it's very late evening, and pouring rain outside. Drink up! |
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| (1289162) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 09:01:49 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 5 21:47:18 2014. That's not really true, mostly because a bartender is going to control your intake and they only serve drinks between NYC and SoNo IIRC. You'd have to really pound them down to get loaded and the bartender doesn't allow such pounding. OTOH you could mismanage yourself a lot more thoroughly by buying a six-pack and pounding them down between NYC and [your station here]. I guess if a guy is a 2 beer willie then he's gonna faceplant when he gets off the train but for most, nah.your pal, Fred |
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| (1289163) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 09:03:23 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue May 6 07:33:18 2014. Haha, they even named that tower on Park Av after him: NICKyour pal, Fred |
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| (1289166) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Tue May 6 09:17:02 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. I say in a way good riddance...I only took a few minutes ride in one a few years ago, and I couldn't help but notice the stench was a lot worse than the smell from the men's bathroom at the LIRR concourse @ Penn Station. And mind you this was on a weekend where the bartender isn't even on the train! |
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| (1289168) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:49:46 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 07:13:31 2014. M8s don't have railfan windows. If a train has a bar car, then it can't be an M8. |
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| (1289171) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:56:44 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 08:51:01 2014. Can't run them on LIRR. Third rail shoes not compatible. Unless you want to convert them into unpowered coaches. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 6 09:57:39 2014, in response to end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 5 20:24:54 2014. Why didn't CDoT just fucking buy new Bar Cars? Those things were a profit center. |
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| (1289173) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:59:05 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 05:53:33 2014. It doesn't matter whether they're open or not; I just need to know which trains physically have them and, by extension, which trains must therefore have a railfan window.Do they actually arrive during the AM rush and then lay up in Grand Central all day? Do they arrive at Grand Central on different trains on different days? |
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| (1289174) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:59:35 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 6 09:57:39 2014. Apparently, they were less of a profit center than the platform carts. |
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| (1289178) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 6 10:10:37 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 6 09:57:39 2014. Lower capacity? |
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| (1289182) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 6 10:21:44 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by AlM on Tue May 6 10:10:37 2014. Greater revenue. When the debate was going on I remember that the bar cars returned something on the other of 6 figures extra per year. |
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| (1289183) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 10:23:26 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Jersey Mike on Tue May 6 09:57:39 2014. yes the bar car makes money on one or two trips per day the other 4 trips that same day its loosing due to lack of seats.A bar tender with a bar cart at end of platform makes 4 times what bar car produces with same manpower and more people serviced on more trains. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 10:25:45 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:59:05 2014. the bar cars run in and out of GCT all day, they are not always the end car, and crews prefer to have them in middle of train. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Asgard on Tue May 6 11:00:11 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:59:05 2014. Just saw one heading north (east) through Woodlawn about 10:30 Tuesday morning. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:17:06 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 6 06:28:01 2014. "they care about being sued for it."If that was a big concern, they'd ban the sale of alcohol outright from any railroad facility, (bar cars/carts) which, I don't see happening as long as they still make money from it. |
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| (1289191) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 6 11:20:55 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 08:54:55 2014. The alcohol ban on holidays like that is because folks traditionally over indulge on those holidays and allowing further indulgence on the RR could lead to possible problems for the crew and other riding public. Apples and oranges |
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| (1289192) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:22:08 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Tue May 6 08:54:55 2014. " New Years Eve and St. Paddy's Day MTA does not allow alcohol on the trains"Thats an attempt to control the amount of violence & vomit generated by stupid suburban kids that come out in drunken droves on those two holidays. Ask any trainperson, those are the two worst days to work. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 6 11:22:59 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon May 5 21:47:18 2014. Ridiculous. I can still buy a beer at NYP concourse or on the platform. This coddle-me because I can't control myself bullshit is ridiculous. I can't stand it when someone can't take responsibility for their own actions (IE, "The beer was available on the train so it made me drink it and drive drunk"). Having parking at bars is more dangerous than having bar cars on trains. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:28:38 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fred G on Tue May 6 09:01:49 2014. Don't forget, a lot of these folks get on the train half in the bag to begin with. Bartender is supposed to cut him/her off when in his judgement he/she has had enough. All the years I rode on the Poughkeepsie train's barcar (#6152) i've never seen that happen. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:31:01 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:49:46 2014. That's not an effective method to finding a westbound rfw.I would ask on a forum of CT commuters which trains in the past few weeks have consistently had non m- 8s. Note that due to the impending timetable change, that method would only valid for the rest of this week. Another option is to go to GCT and ask each crew of a non m8 NHL train if they and their train turn and come back. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:36:56 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Nilet on Tue May 6 09:59:35 2014. Have you looked at it from a per location/employee per open for business hour basis? |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:39:29 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 10:23:26 2014. Per hour in operation (selling items), the average single bar cart brings in more sales revenue than the average single bar car? |
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| (1289199) | |
Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:40:16 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 10:23:26 2014. "yes the bar car makes money on one or two trips per day the other 4 trips that same day its loosing due to lack of seats."When the bar car sells enough units to cover all the costs of having a bartender on board, thats the standard the beancounters use to justify the bar car existence (AKA profit). On other runs, there are usually enough seats for everyone with the bar car in the consist. I've never seen standees on a New haven train running in the off hours because of the presence of a bar car. Besides, how do you lose $$$ when the passenger has bought a ticket, seat or no seat? |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:18:53 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:31:01 2014. there is website called wheresthebarcar |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:19:50 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 11:39:29 2014. correct almost 4 times. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:21:35 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue May 6 11:40:16 2014. same car instead of 112 now only has seating for 40 plus passengers sitting and laying on bar counters and side counters does not enhance safety. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 6 12:58:36 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Avid Reader on Tue May 6 08:51:01 2014. A+ on these pictures.chud1. :).... |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 13:28:48 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:18:53 2014. Huh? I know about the website. |
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Re: end of bar cars on new Haven |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue May 6 13:29:48 2014, in response to Re: end of bar cars on new Haven, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 6 12:19:50 2014. What are the numbers? I've only seen aggregate numbers. |
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