LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A

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LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Gold_12th on Thu Mar 13 19:26:08 2014 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d PCAC meeting minutes... Mr. Garcia introduced members of the LIRR team working on procurement of the M9 cars, including Yannis Takos, General Manager of Market Development, Scott Schneider, Director of Market Research, Anthony Kamanes, Manager of Strategic Investments for Car Procurement, and Jim Allen, Deputy Chief Procurement Officer and Project Manager for the M9 cars. Mr. Allen made a brief presentation, a copy of which is on file in the PCAC office. He said that additional seats are gained in the M9 design by moving electrical equipment to other areas of the cars and that the specification for the cars calls for 221 seats per pair of cars. Mr. Costello asked if seat width is specified in the contract. Mr. Allen responded that both seat and aisle widths are in the contract. Ray Pagano asked whether the additional seating comes at the expense of space for the bathrooms. Mr. Takos said that the size of bathrooms has not been reduced, but some space had been gained by a thinner wall design. Mr. Costello asked whether the bathroom doors would operate like those in the M7 cars. Mr. Allen replied that he is aware of riders’ issues with the M7 bathroom doors, but because of space restrictions it is necessary to use sliding doors. He said that the design team will investigate ways to buffer the action of the doors so that they do not slam. Mr. Allen said that the LIRR will exercise options in the M9 contract that will provide for multimedia and WiFi on board. He said that there is also a change order pending to add USB power to the seats in the cars. He noted that water storage space is designed into the cars and that these cars will have increased reliability compared with the M7 cars. Mr. Rubinstein asked whether the design team had looked at access to emergency exits, since on M7 cars there are seats blocking access to the emergency exits. He said that unless you can move the seats, they will get in the way of removing the emergency exit window glass. Mr. Allen said that the clarity of public address speakers in the cars is being addressed through metrics in the specification that establish requirements for sound quality. He also noted that the cars will include the digital display features that the LIRRCC had requested in its letter and that the cars may include displays in the vestibules. Mr. Takos noted that the new cars will have GPS and that the LIRR is working on a countdown clock that will tell riders the time remaining to upcoming stations. Mr. Allen said that in terms of power, the new cars will include all the elements for which the LIRRCC has asked, including a regulated AC power source and USB power outlets. The designers would not be able, however, to segregate restrooms from seating areas as the council had recommended. This would require great changes to seat and restroom design and would make it difficult to meet the goal of increased numbers of seats. Cup holders are also a feature that will not be provided, as they would be difficult to include from a design perspective and create issues with cleanliness and the disposal of used or partially full cups left in the holders. Mr. Costello said that he nevertheless feels that this is an important feature. Mr. Allen commented that the LIRR is very focused on improving the layout of the middle seat to make it a more acceptable choice for riders and said that this issue is a topic of constant conversation with Kawasaki. Mr. Rubinstein suggested that the aisle seat should be wider, because people who need space tend to look for aisle space. Mr. Takos stated that a great deal of thought went into whether the size of the middle seat should be increased, since even greater width may not make middle seats more attractive to riders. Mr. Allen responded to concerns that the council had raised about glass in the M9 cars. He said that the windows will provide 23% light transmission and that this is the minimum for vision at night. If the windows are more heavily tinted riders cannot see what station they are in. Mr. Pagano asked if the display board in the cars would help to identify stations. Mr. Takos responded that the LIRR will look into ways that the displays can tell riders their location. Mr. Allen said that there are several places where the action of parts of the car needs to be buffered. The most obvious case is the restroom door, but the M7 and M8 cars do not offer good designs in this respect. The design team is also seeking ways to make fold down seats return more slowly to a stowed position. Mr. Takos said that the illumination at floor level in existing cars meets industry standards. He noted that designers have been working on improving the amount of light at floor level for many years, and the M7 cars were improved over the M3 models. Mr. Allen stated that lighting fixture had never been included in the floor in previous designs because they create a maintenance problem. Mr. Rubinstein asked whether prototypes of the interiors exist. Mr. Kamanes said that there are no prototypes yet, but they have done 1 ½ years of design work. Mr. Takos said that the LIRR plans to have focus groups with riders and that the LIRRCC would be invited to observe these sessions. He said that the focus groups are on hold until renderings of potential car designs are produced. Mr. Allen said that the renderings are scheduled to be available by the end of the month and that he is willing to meet with the council to go over them in the first quarter of 2014. Mr. Rubinstein asked whether Metro-North will have the same cars. Mr. Allen said that there will be some changes to account for differences in operations between the railroads, but the cars will be basically the same. He said that the LIRR is leading the procurement effort and so sets the design standard. Mr. Pagano wanted to know whether any thought had been given to installing sensors to indicate where train to platform gaps are larger than normal. Mr. Allen said that the cars will have larger threshold plates similar to those installed on the M7 cars, but would not feature gap fillers or sensors. The cars will, however, have lights to illuminate the gap area and allow riders to see it more clearly. http://www.pcac.org/lirrcc/meetings-and-minutes/meeting-minutes-11132013/
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Outside the Box* on Thu Mar 13 20:08:17 2014, in response to LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Mar 13 19:26:08 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No word on bi level emu? I always wondered if they could stick all the electronics under a single level and have a bilevel paired with it and run off the the equipment mounted on the single level. Some configurations: A = cab motor single level w/equipment B = motor trailer single level w/equipment C = cab motor bi-level D = motor trailer bi-level AC - 17% seat increase vs M7 pair ADA ADA - 9.95% seat increase vs M7 6 car set CBC CBC - 22.9% seat increase vs M7 6 car set
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Gold_12th* on Thu Mar 13 20:24:38 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Outside the Box on Thu Mar 13 20:08:17 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, they are not order bi-levels.
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Thu Mar 13 21:07:26 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Mar 13 20:24:38 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d just like M-3 was upgraded M-1 the M-9 will be upgraded M-7
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(1279823)	view threaded
Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by R 36 ML 9542* on Fri Mar 14 02:12:39 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Mar 13 21:07:26 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Are the M-9s going to be compatible with the M-7s?
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Fri Mar 14 06:15:43 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Fri Mar 14 02:12:39 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d maybe, but probably not used as M-9 have a lot more safety features and mixing them would only mess with electronics.
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(1279949)	view threaded
Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by lirr42* on Sat Mar 15 02:36:28 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Fri Mar 14 02:12:39 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The RFP said that the two only need to be compatible for non-revenue moves, not in actual revenue service. I'm not sure if the M3's were designed to be compatible with the M1's originally or not, but when they got there, the LIRR figured out they ran well enough together so they ran mixed consists. Something similar might happen once the M9's hit the rails and they start "experimenting" but I don't think we'll see mixed consists.
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(1279955)	view threaded
Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Joe V* on Sat Mar 15 07:18:35 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by lirr42 on Sat Mar 15 02:36:28 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d LIRR has such complicated equipment cycles, it proved very difficult to keep them separated. I think the M-9 may also have a body contour that is more like an M-8 or Montreal MU than an M-7, which means a little wider at floor level. M-7's were narrower than the M-1/M-3, hence the gapping issue exploded in their face. The Acela was also 4" too wide. I do not know why BBD has such difficulty with the tape measure.
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(1279956)	view threaded
Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Sat Mar 15 08:08:34 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 15 07:18:35 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The LIRR specified the cars to be narrower to have certain clearances on one of their branches, Bombardier built what was asked, same with Acela, it was a Amtrak VP that ordered them to wide.
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Joe V* on Sat Mar 15 17:03:55 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 15 08:08:34 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The pinch point is the curve into the tunnel west of Nostrand Av. The M-7 bellies out to 10'6", liker an M-1. But they are 2" narrower at floor level, which is why the body caves in sharply just above the floor level. I do not know why that was done. The platform gap situation then got more critical.
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Sat Mar 15 19:30:31 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 15 17:03:55 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d bottom line is, your statement was wrong, it was not Bombadier, but LIRR's choice.
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Joe V* on Sat Mar 15 19:40:12 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 15 19:30:31 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Whatever, why was that done when clearances when the M-1 did not have the clearance issue at the floor level ?
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Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Sat Mar 15 20:19:12 2014, in response to Re: LIRR M-9 car order info Q&A, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 15 19:40:12 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ask engineering?
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