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Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014

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There have been repeated attacks on laid up subway cars since the beginning of the year.

Subway Cars Target of Vandals

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(1269622)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Allan on Tue Jan 14 19:42:06 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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At least the tagging can be washed offwithout too much effort.

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(1269624)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 19:45:11 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Allan on Tue Jan 14 19:42:06 2014.

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Is it easy to take the paint off nowadays?

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(1269625)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 14 20:16:44 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 19:45:11 2014.

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sure...thanks to the sweet sweet new type of stainless used to build cars these days..

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(1269681)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 15 08:00:21 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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Shoot the Vandals on sight.

1) If they have the ability to carry paint into the subway they could also carry a bomb into the subway.

2) If they have time to paint a car, they have time to plant a bomb.

3) If they could have planted a bomb, they must be treated as if they had planted a bomb.

Shipping areas are secure. Airway areas are secure, they better darn well secure the private areas of the subway and rail systems.

Ergo: Shoot on sight.

ROAR

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(1269711)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Wed Jan 15 12:15:05 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 15 08:00:21 2014.

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Oh you can't do THAT, they're artists ........ smirk ...... that's what the media calls them .... yea right,maybe get hi tech surveillance cameras and equipment. Karl

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(1269721)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Allan on Wed Jan 15 12:57:50 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 15 08:00:21 2014.

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"Ergo: Shoot on sight."

Nah - too messy.

I say use the Code of Hammurabi which provides for the cutting off of the hands.

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(1269730)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by caine515 on Wed Jan 15 13:59:53 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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The R160 assigned to the "E","R" and "F" had signs that they have been attacked too.Cars #9343-#9345 are a example.

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(1269736)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 15 14:38:44 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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Laying up trains on the road is what lead to the graffiti epidemic in the 70's and ending the practice was a huge reason it was conquered. I suppose the weather situation trumps the risk of vandalism.

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(1269743)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Jan 15 15:18:57 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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Perhaps in the future the MTA should consider covering the major subway yards so as to enable trains to be stored in their proper areas.

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(1269755)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Jan 15 16:10:00 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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I say treat these bastards like Michael Fay in Singapore in 1994, and do it in a well public place like Times Square, then have them scrub each and every one of their vandal scummage work off the sides, pay for all the materials needed to clean the vandalism, then give them jail time no less than 5 years. See if they ever do it again after that!!!

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(1269795)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:02:35 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 14 20:16:44 2014.

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that's true but the acid is a problem. You can actually many R-160's especially on the east with buff marks on the exterior. I really would like to see these bastards face stiff punishment. I have been seeing more and more graffiti on buildings that it did not exist on. THe apartment building on facing the FDR Drive just north of the Manhattan Bridge has not been tagged in 20 years. Now it has been completely bombed two months ago.
THe Con ED buildings on the FDR near east 15th woudl occasionally get hit. Maybe once per year. Now it is almost every month. I noticed the same crew "ZA ONE" "EASY" & "SEN 4" hitting that Con Ed building FIVE times! THey are a citywide crew. Easy has been around for at least twenty years.

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(1269796)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:03:35 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Jan 15 08:00:21 2014.

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Once again agreed 1000%.

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(1269797)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:03:59 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 15 12:57:50 2014.

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yes

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(1269798)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:06:03 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed Jan 15 16:10:00 2014.

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Those are great suggestions. But because too many view this as an art form, these penalties will never occur. Another idea would be to take away their driver's licenses until they are 40. You cannot imagine how many of these punks are in their thirties.

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(1269805)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 15 18:43:46 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 15 14:38:44 2014.

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I don't know about that.

The vandals on the M hit Fresh Pond Yard pretty hard. Something they would climb up the hill by CTK to hit trains in Metropolitan station.



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(1269806)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 15 18:45:32 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Jan 15 15:18:57 2014.

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Covering the yards would help, but it would not change the temperature much and the compressors will freeze. It's always warmer underground.

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(1269808)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jan 15 18:49:14 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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NYPD Vandal Squad might put a cop on some of the LU trains.

When I was with NYCT, a cop asked me to do 10 MPH between two stations so he could look for any signs of vandals in the area. This was a decade ago.



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(1269809)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 15 18:54:53 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:02:35 2014.

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i've see some cars with "buffering marks" or scratches.

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(1269829)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 15 20:46:29 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Allan on Wed Jan 15 12:57:50 2014.

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Is that where the Muslims got the idea for putting that in Sharia? It is ugly when they do it, it would be ugly here (not to mention violate the 8th Amendment "cruel and unusual punishment" ban). Sure, the vandals need to be punished, but they don't deserve to be shot or mutilated.

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(1269848)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Allan on Wed Jan 15 22:44:55 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 15 20:46:29 2014.

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"but they don't deserve to be shot or mutilated. "

People can dream, can't they?

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:23:46 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:02:35 2014.

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I agree. The "people" who do this need to be punished severely. Many are not otherwise criminals, so they may not be used to jail and strip searches. I've heard of Europeans coming to NY just to say they vandalized something here. Six months in a real lockup, for a first offense, (no work release) would do it for most- and would deter many others.

As for those who are violent criminals or gang members, well, obviously, why are they out and about in the first place?

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(1269872)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:24:58 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Wed Jan 15 18:02:35 2014.

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Just as an example, some years ago, two Frenchmen were caught in the act of trying to set fire to the Rockefeller Center Christmas tree.

They confessed that was why the came to NYC...

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(1269873)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:26:56 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Jan 15 20:46:29 2014.

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Correct. But meaningful prison time, even for first offenses and very young offenders, would serve as a deterrent for many.

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(1269889)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Jan 16 09:20:19 2014, in response to Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 17:52:49 2014.

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General Burkhalter [ Leon Askin ] had the right idea " Send them to the Russian Front"

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(1269891)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 09:46:19 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Edwards! on Wed Jan 15 18:54:53 2014.

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true, too bad there are several

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(1269894)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 09:51:40 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:23:46 2014.

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Based on the fact that I have been following these vandals since the 1980's what is even moe disturbing is to see constant repeat offenders such as JA ONE. I do think that jail time a significant monetary fine would be appriopriate. If the stiff fine could not be paid then the perp woudl remain jailed longer.

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(1269896)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 09:56:50 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:24:58 2014.

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exactly, we are too tolerant in this area and too much is tolerated. For example there should be no graffiti on any street furniture anywhere but if that is simply not possible for logistical reasons, lets at least start in the tourist districts. The only areas graffiti-free are within BID's. I cannot beleive there are full steel security gates with large graffiti tags on 38th & 2nd or Fireboxes, mailboxes or Lamp posts with graffiti near Rockefeller Center and Macy's.
Without getting too political since this is not OTC. I do not think based on his ideology that our new mayor will take this seriously. I hope I am wrong.

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(1269901)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 10:09:34 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:26:56 2014.

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I know a vandal "MAP" that hasd spent time in jail, he is in his late 30's or early 40's by now and he still continues. Google MAP graffiti vandal patrick mccormick and you will see his tag and I am sure you will remember it. Same with Ja ONE.

Vandals need to see their vandalism. If it is removed imediately and they never get the pleasure of seeing it they eventually try other surfaces that are not maintained. THe vandals that hit the 6 line probably think the trains will be in service with their vandalism. WHen they realize they will not they will not continue. THis was the winning receipe that eliminated it in 1989. WHen a train was tagged it was oos. Stations are cleaed within 48 hours, interior graffiti is removed at the end of the line. In the late 1980's they started with the scratching of the polycarbonate windows on the new R-62 & R-68. By the time the R-68A was delivered with glass it was too late they graduated to sharper objects. THen when they ran out of room they hit the stainless steel surfaces. THey also introduced acid in the 1990's. By the time the NTT trains were delivered, MTA started to FINALLY address this problem by applying sacrificial window screens. after a few years the vandals learned thatthey would no longer be able to view their glass destruction since MTA was maintaining the windows. Today the windows are spotless for the most part. Now if they could only treat ALL MTA surfaces throughout the subway system the same way. Then and only then will it stop permenantly. You have to treat track walls, and interior car stainless steel surfaces, glass, elevator surfaces, stainless steel station surfaces the same way.

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(1269906)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 10:40:39 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 10:09:34 2014.

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It would be great if the city passed a law that all owners of property remove graffiti or face stiff fines, as many apartment houses have this shit all over their roof area. Karl

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(1269910)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jan 16 10:54:28 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:26:56 2014.

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No, "meaningful" prison time would turn petty criminals into hardened criminals.

The proper sentence is community service doing cleanup work (not necessarily cleaning up their own work).

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(1269925)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Jan 16 14:17:49 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 10:40:39 2014.

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While I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, why should an owner be forced to remove graffiti he didn't place there? What if the owner genuinely couldn't afford it? You can't draw blood from a stone. (Except in certain movies).

--mark

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 14:30:44 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Jan 16 14:17:49 2014.

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Er ... pride ? Case in point, here in my neighborhood we have an abandoned trolley ROW that was converted into a bike and walk trail, along the trail is fences from home owners mine included these vandals have been tagging the fences mine included luckily my fence is vinyl and easy to clean unlike the others that's all wood, after the county ordered all owners to clean the fences or get slapped with a lien against their homes all fences were cleaned or painted over the graffiti I removed mine as soon as I saw it with cleaner, if this crap is removed as soon as it's applied they will move on. so far we have a very clean trail. that is the only way these retards will stop that along with HD video of the ones doing it and caught. this " out of sight out of mind " does nothing except make the city look bad. Karl

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(1269929)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 16 15:09:45 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 10:40:39 2014.

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And who sees it on the roof?

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Nilet on Thu Jan 16 16:17:54 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 16 07:26:56 2014.

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This might come as a shock, but the severity of the punishment is hardly the only factor in the crime rate.

Specifically, increasing the punishment for vandalism would have no effect because most vandals aren't caught (or at least, most vandals believe they won't be caught). No punishment will deter someone who believes they'll never be subjected to it in the first place.

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(1269940)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:41:13 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 10:40:39 2014.

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Absolutely, I actually lobbied my councilman for this and as far as I knew some sort of law WAS passed. Come to think of it I am not sure if it passed. But I Remember resding the proposition. Graffiti should be treated like snow and litter. It should be built into maintenance contracts the way it is with banks and national franchises. If a landlord knows he will get a summons for roof top graffiti, he will paint it and install a fence. Problem solved. If an owner of a building has security gates that get tagged, he will switch them to the open grills. If it is a brick wall issue, we will apply protective coatings or a decorative fence.

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(1269941)

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:45:41 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Jan 16 14:17:49 2014.

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But he could get a ticket for not shoveling snow or sweeping up. Why should an owner who lives far away from the commercial building that is getting tagged get away with it. WHat about the people that DO live near the tagged building or the thousands that drive past it everyday. NYC offers free graffiti removal services. I had the same thought as you did when I heard someone suggest this years ago. But when I constantly see the same vandals tagging for decades, I honestly do not think there is any other solution.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:47:26 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 14:30:44 2014.

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That is 100% correct. This is why after the trains were cleanedup by 89 they switched to track walls, and scratching windows.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:48:29 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 16 15:09:45 2014.

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Millions of cars and subway riders. Have you ever taken the Gowanus, Manhattan Bridge, 59th Street bridge, Brighton Line, Sea Beach Line, 7 line etc

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 18:30:40 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:47:26 2014.

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Just goes to show what retards they really are. Karl

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 18:36:03 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 16:41:13 2014.

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Portland has a policy to have teams of volunteers to clean off graffiti from anyone who wants it removed and it's working very well, after several tagging at the same place the taggers got tired and quit after the crap kept being removed. Karl

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jan 16 19:07:19 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by heypaul on Tue Jan 14 19:45:11 2014.

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Stainless steel....not like the carbon steel in the old days. Plus they actually remove it....unlike the stainless cars in the old days.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by merrick1 on Thu Jan 16 19:21:00 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 10:40:39 2014.

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But what if the owner wants graffiti? The owner of 5 Pointz wanted graffiti on his building. When he didn't want it any more he painted it over.

This idea sounds like something from one of those homeowner associations that regulates what color you can paint your door or what kind of flowers you can plant.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 17 11:23:57 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by merrick1 on Thu Jan 16 19:21:00 2014.

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I bet the owner of 5 pointz started out NOT wanting it and basically got fed up with the taggers and gave in.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Jan 17 11:34:34 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 17 11:23:57 2014.

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And THAT'S why it's important to remove it as soon as you can and keep after it, I've been tagged twice in four years. Karl

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 17 13:25:39 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 09:51:40 2014.

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Somebody's who's been doing this since the 80s is a grown man by now, and should face adult punishment.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 17 13:27:51 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Jan 16 18:30:40 2014.

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+1

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jan 17 13:37:23 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by rbseabeach on Thu Jan 16 09:51:40 2014.

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Has JA ONE ever been caught?

I suspected he's a TA worker.



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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by cortelyounext on Fri Jan 17 13:41:40 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jan 17 13:37:23 2014.

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You need to go back to the other board. The bingbong taunted responded to your post about clouds. Flying into a cloud is a helpless, sickening feeling.

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Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars

Posted by rbseabeach on Fri Jan 17 13:45:48 2014, in response to Re: Vandals Hitting Cold Weather Laid Up Subway Cars, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Fri Jan 17 11:34:34 2014.

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TRUE!! Case in point the green storage mailbox / lamp poles / traffic signs / firebox on my block. I cleaned each surface when I moved in 15 years ago. I have had to clean the mailbox about 6 times, traffici signs once, lamp poles three times and firebox three times. AL lhave been spotless for four years!!

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