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The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013 Well, as tomorrow on October 7, 2013 will be the 80th Anniversary of the Independent Subway System's Smith Street-Prospect Park Line extension from Bergen Street to Church Avenue, here is just a simple timeline of openings and services that had occurred in the early days of the IND (1932-33) within the first thirteen months of operation...9/10/1932 - 8th Avenue main line between 207th Street-Broadway and Chambers Street-Hudson Terminal in Manhattan opens, with 28 stations opened in total at the time. "A" express and "AA" local trains amongst a fleet of 300 R-1 cars (#100-399) provide the service at first. 2/1/1933 - Extension from Chambers Street-Hudson Terminal to Jay Street-Borough Hall in Brooklyn, with an immediate station opened at Broadway-Nassau Street (now Fulton Street). High Street-Brooklyn Bridge station along this extension did not open until 6/24/1933. 3/20/1933 - Extension one-stop from Jay Street-Borough Hall to Bergen Street-Smith Street in Brooklyn, with "A" trains using the line. 7/1/1933 - New extension via the Concourse line going into from 145th Street (lower level) to 205th Street-Bainbridge/Perry Avenues in the Bronx. "C" express and "CC" local trains provide the service there, with a fleet of 500 R-4 cars (#400-899) being placed in passemnger service for the new extended lines there were to be opened real soon. Meanwhile, "AA" local train service is discontinued (but will resume again on 12/15/1940), and "A" express trains make stops at 155th Street and 163rd Street in its place. 8/19/1933 - New extension to Queens via the 53rd Street Line going into from 50th Street-8th Avenue (lower level) to Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Heights, with "E" trains making all the stops along this route. 23rd Street-Ely Avenue would open along that stretch as an added station on 8/28/1939. Also, the first section of a new Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line with "GG" trains in service opens south of Queens Plaza towards its temporary terminal at Nassau Avenue in Brooklyn. 10/7/1933 - The final IND extension to open during the calendar year of 1933 was the Smith Street-Prospect Park line in Brooklyn from Bergen Street-Smith Street to Church Avenue-McDonald Avenue, with "A" trains using the route. Most notable along this route are two above ground, elevated stations at Smith-9th Street (located 87.5 feet above street level) and 4th Avenue-9th Street (with its impressive arch structure design). Afterward, there will be no new line extensions to be opened on the Independent Subway System until 1/1/1936 with the opening of the Houston Street-Essex Street route between West 4th Street-Washington Square and East Broadway-Rutgers Street. The R-6 groupings of new subway cars would start to come in 1935-36. -William A. Padron ["Independent System"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Oct 6 16:25:15 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Willam: Has it been eighty years? It seems like only yesterday, just kidding. Thank you for that informative post. Ones wonder what it was like to ride the IND when there were only two services running, the "A" and the "AA". Incidentally the "A" designation has been in continuous use since 1932.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 6 16:53:06 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Although most sources indicate the E as running from Roosevelt Av to Hudson Term making all stops, since these trains did not run express anywhere along their route wouldn't they have carried "EE/8 Ave Local" signs? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 6 19:10:36 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. And just to think that the R-1 cars did'nt have windshield wipers for the above ground sections. Come to think of it, they did'nt have speedomoters or sealed beam headlights either. Motormen from that era must have been a tough (go ahead, sue me!) breed. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 6 21:05:55 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 6 19:10:36 2013. We were. Even as late as 1969 when I was a M/M many of the R-1s and 4s I operated lacked seal beams and nothing had speedometers. In fact, NYC and NH MUs I rode lacked speedometers also. Part of the M/M's exam used to be a qualifying practical which required the candidates who passed the written test to make 3 stops making one application and 2 releases, the second release after the train came to a full stop and it was expected that the operator would leave between 10 and 15 PSI in the brake cylinder. Candidates were also required to indicate various speeds of their trains at the request of the examiners. My test location was the Jerome Av middle and another was the Culver middle between K/Hwy and 18 Av. I'm not sure how they determined who got tested where, but since I lived in Manhattan and was assigned the Bronx testing site, I imagine that Manh and Bx residents were tested on Jerome and Bkln Qns and SI residents were tested on the Culver. The 1968 M/M's exam was the last to have a qualifying practical. The next exam had no practical but "acclamation" classes were given by M/M/Is after the candidates passed the written test but it was not given the same gravity as the civil service administered test. By the way, I don't think any R-1/9s had wipers until the IND took over the Culver in 1954 although AFAIK, the R-10s and subsequent cars came in with them factory installed. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Oct 6 21:06:07 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Sun Oct 6 19:10:36 2013. We were. Even as late as 1969 when I was a M/M many of the R-1s and 4s I operated lacked seal beams and nothing had speedometers. In fact, NYC and NH MUs I rode lacked speedometers also. Part of the M/M's exam used to be a qualifying practical which required the candidates who passed the written test to make 3 stops making one application and 2 releases, the second release after the train came to a full stop and it was expected that the operator would leave between 10 and 15 PSI in the brake cylinder. Candidates were also required to indicate various speeds of their trains at the request of the examiners. My test location was the Jerome Av middle and another was the Culver middle between K/Hwy and 18 Av. I'm not sure how they determined who got tested where, but since I lived in Manhattan and was assigned the Bronx testing site, I imagine that Manh and Bx residents were tested on Jerome and Bkln Qns and SI residents were tested on the Culver. The 1968 M/M's exam was the last to have a qualifying practical. The next exam had no practical but "acclamation" classes were given by M/M/Is after the candidates passed the written test but it was not given the same gravity as the civil service administered test. By the way, I don't think any R-1/9s had wipers until the IND took over the Culver in 1954 although AFAIK, the R-10s and subsequent cars came in with them factory installed. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon Oct 7 03:00:04 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Sun Oct 6 21:05:55 2013. i remember da arnines with no windsheild wipers and no seald headlights and speedometers.then da arnines had them near da end of their career. also had speedometers. chud1. :).... |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 7 07:56:41 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Thanks, as always :) I learned something here- that 23-Ely was added later, which explains its unique color in the tile band...(I noticed that when I was about 8).Also, isn't neat how Broadway-Nassau was changed to Fulton St only in the past year or so- but the name tiles look original!!! |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 7 07:58:52 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Oct 6 16:25:15 2013. I've thought about that first year. Except for the country being in the Depression, it must have been exciting- a whole new line opens...and you can even see the next phase- at the temporary terminals, I'm sure it was easy to see that there was more on the way... |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 08:48:18 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. 2/1/1933 - Extension from Chambers Street-Hudson Terminal to Jay Street-Borough Hall in Brooklyn, with an immediate station opened at Broadway-Nassau Street (now Fulton Street). High Street-Brooklyn Bridge station along this extension did not open until 6/24/1933.What an eye full the passengers would have had, watching the completion of High St. Was there still rapid transit service across the Brooklyn Bridge at this time i.e trolleys? |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 09:00:36 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. 7/1/1933 - New extension via the Concourse line going into from 145th Street (lower level) to 205th Street-Bainbridge/Perry Avenues in the Bronx. "C" express and "CC" local trains provide the service there, with a fleet of 500 R-4 cars (#400-899) being placed in passemnger service for the new extended lines there were to be opened real soon.How many stations did this addition add to the system? 8/19/1933 - New extension to Queens via the 53rd Street Line going into from 50th Street-8th Avenue (lower level) to Roosevelt Avenue-Jackson Heights, with "E" trains making all the stops along this route. 23rd Street-Ely Avenue would open along that stretch as an added station on 8/28/1939. Also, the first section of a new Brooklyn-Queens Crosstown line with "GG" trains in service opens south of Queens Plaza towards its temporary terminal at Nassau Avenue in Brooklyn How many stations did this addition add to the system? 10/7/1933 - The final IND extension to open during the calendar year of 1933 was the Smith Street-Prospect Park line in Brooklyn from Bergen Street-Smith Street to Church Avenue-McDonald Avenue, with "A" trains using the route. Most notable along this route are two above ground, elevated stations at Smith-9th Street (located 87.5 feet above street level) and 4th Avenue-9th Street (with its impressive arch structure design). How many stations did this addition add to the system? Of course, we all realize, all of these lines were under construction at the same time, although, some started earlier then others. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Oct 7 12:07:32 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Very interesting. 9/20/33 is quite interesting... Jay St to Bergan. Didn't know that. Current track maps show no way to make that move today unless the A was crossed over over to the local plat before getting to Jay. Like the F uses today? were there 4 tracks then?What a great 13 months! |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Oct 7 12:11:45 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 7 07:56:41 2013. I learned something here- that 23-Ely was added later, which explains its unique color in the tile band.----- Most likely the station was BUILT at the same time as the other parts of that segment of the line, but simply OPENED later, after some finishing work, etc. Mike |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Oct 7 15:05:40 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 08:48:18 2013. "Was there still rapid transit service across the Brooklyn Bridge at this time i.e trolleys?"El trains (Myrtle Ave. and Lexington Ave. lines) ran until March 5, 1944, and the trolleys quit six years later. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 15:56:13 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 7 07:58:52 2013. From what I was told, many parts of the iND were built with as part of a federal program either WPA or PWA, I'm not sure which. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 16:21:59 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by X-Astorian on Mon Oct 7 15:05:40 2013. Thanks for painting in that portion of history. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:27:46 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Sun Oct 6 16:53:06 2013. Well, I have seen that one B&W (1) photo from August 1933 of an R-1/4 train signed up as an "E" bound "Queens\Roosevelt Avenue" at 50th Street-8th Avenue lower level, which appeared in one of Bill Newkirk's New York City Subway Calendars. Also, the map issued in May 1934 by the IND showed the five operating services at that time: "A", "C", "CC", "E" and "GG". Not sure why the B.O.T. decided not to follow what would be the correct lettered format, and had them signed as "EE" locals instead. Would have, but guess they did not then at the time.-William A. Padron ["<-51-<"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:31:37 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 08:48:18 2013. High Street-Brooklyn Bridge was not ready at the time, because the escalators were not completed yet, thus the delay until four months later. A photo of the uncompleted High Street station, without trackway side wall tiles, appeared in one of the NYC Subway History books written by Cunningham and DeHart in 1977 [Part 3: The Independent System and City Ownership] that was published back then.-William A. Padron ["High"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 7 16:34:02 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 15:56:13 2013. right..the IND was "finished" using those funds when the city claimed it could not complete the routes on its own.Due to the horrors of WW2..most of the planned extensions were out right deferred...and or even cancelled.. such was the fate of the Van Wyck Blvd subway..the Roosevelt upper level..the Pitkin avenue subway[both IRT and IND sections]the Utica avenue subway..and the most infamous of all,Second avenue trunk system. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:38:27 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Fulton Frank on Mon Oct 7 12:07:32 2013. If the "A" had to be turned back at Bergen Street then, it could have used the switch just south of that station going from the SB into NB tracks. The route had four tracks even then at the station, but with two on the upper level as ready and two on the lower level not yet in use. An early 1933 photo as known, with an uptown R-1/4 "A" train at Bergen Street, was most likely taken on the upper level.-William A. Padron ["Bergen"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:40:56 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sun Oct 6 16:25:15 2013. You're welcomed, and yes, the "A" is still going strong and long running in terms of years in service!-William A. Padron ["'A'|8th Ave.\Express"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 7 16:42:49 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:38:27 2013. you sure?from what I was told by my pops..the lower level was used First to Bergen st. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 16:44:23 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Michael549 on Mon Oct 7 12:11:45 2013. AFAIK, the station finishing was done when the rest of the line was opened but just not opened until later. Also according to a map of IND interlockings the switches S/O 23/Ely were not there when the line first opened but were added later. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 16:48:16 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:27:46 2013. I had seen somewhere that at some point that service did use EE signs but I don't recall the actual time frame. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 16:52:12 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 08:48:18 2013. There was an ad card displayed in the IND cars shortly after the IND opened to Bkln that showed running times between uptown Manhattan and lower Manhattan which showed the first stop past Chambers St as being "Fulton St" even though it was not called that until recently. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 16:53:35 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Michael549 on Mon Oct 7 12:11:45 2013. AFAIK, the station finishing was done when the rest of the line was opened but just not opened until later. Also according to a map of IND interlockings the switches S/O 23/Ely were not there when the line first opened but were added later. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:55:27 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 09:00:36 2013. 7/1/1933 - Concourse Line...11 new ststions added after 145th Street/lower level: 155th St-8th Av, 161st-River, 167th St, 170th St, 174th-175th St, Tremont Av, 182nd-183rd St, Fordham Rd, Kingsbridge Rd, Bedford Park Blvd, 205th St.8/19/1933 - Queensboro-53rd Street Line & Crosstown Line...14 new stations added after 50th Street-8th Avenue/lower level [23rd St-Ely Avenue added on 8/28/1939]: 7th Av, 5th Av, Lexington Av, Queens Plaza, 36th St, Steinway St, 46th St, Northern Blvd, 65th St, Roosevelt Av; Court Sq, 21st St-Van Alst, Greenpoint Av, Nassau Av. 10/7/1933 - Smith Street-Prospect Park Line...7 new stations added after Bergen Street: Carroll St, Smith-9th St, 4th Av, 7th Av, 15th St-Prospect Pk, Ft Hamilton Pkway, Church Av. -William A. Padron [">-Rowan St->"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:58:39 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 7 16:42:49 2013. It is possible that the lower level may have been used at first and Bergen Street until 10/7/1933. Hard to say at this point now if more research, and they were tiled square signs leading down the stairway there for "Express Trains" (sealed of now because of the renovations). I will go back and recheck the 1933 picture again real soon!-William A. Padron ["<-Warren Street-<"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 7 17:18:14 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:58:39 2013. right..when Church avenue opened,the A ran there until 1936 using the upper level...then the E took over until 1940. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Oct 7 18:14:25 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 16:48:16 2013. During off peak hours when the GG terminated at Queens Plaza, there was an EE service that was the QB Local replacing the GG. There are pictures on nycsubway.org of this service. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by gbs on Mon Oct 7 21:50:37 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by MainR3664 on Mon Oct 7 07:56:41 2013. It seems that, after some near hits and some terrible misses, they've learned how to beautifully replicate the original IND-style white-on-black tiles. The new ones at Jay St (A,C,F) are absolutely true (if I hadn't seen them covering up the old ones, I would have sworn they removed them and reused them); the "Junction" at Broadway-Junction (A,C) is almost right; Chambers St (A,C) is pretty bad; and "To Street & Transfer" at Metropolitan Av (G) is bad beyond words: It may be hard to see in this photo, but the letters are uneven, blurry, and of very poor quality. Compare the S above with the original,graceful IND S below:  Interestingly, at Fulton St (A,C), when they first started installing the new Fulton tiles, on the Brooklyn-bound side, they installed "FULTON ST" with a white(!) tile between the words, thoroughly un-IND and absolutely ugly. When they then did the uptown side, they put only "FULTON", then they went back to the other side and removed the "ST"s. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Oct 7 23:25:39 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 7 16:21:59 2013. "Thanks for painting in that portion of history."Glad to. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Oct 7 23:46:59 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by gbs on Mon Oct 7 21:50:37 2013. Stations has one chap who is a whiz with the Makita tile saw; that's how the captions get so expertly replaced. The Fulton Street "J"/"Z" original platform tiles read "FULTN" - the "O" was omitted. Chambers Street would look better if they removed every other "CHAMBERS" caption. Those were panel tiles (ca.1998) and every single one had a caption. Strangely enough, the terminal platform at Chambers does NOT have any caption, and the tile is a slightly different color.wayne |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 8 00:28:20 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Interesting. The AA seems like the only route to exist, be eliminated, then come back in exactly the same form years later.The AA was my favorite route as a kid, even if I only rode it between 59th St and 81st St. once a year. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 8 04:32:47 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. i find it strange that the only 2 stations on the whole entire independent subway system are smith-9th st and 4th avenue stations. but it's a good thing though. of course i like all the underground ind lines and stations, it make things interesting what with the closed exits, the 5 color tile "family" (red, yellow, green, blue and purple), the provisions for unbuilt lines (i would of never guessed an shell of a station were built on top of the existing broadway G line station!), and how other stations like bergen st lower level and the 42nd st lower level were built and not used right away. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Tue Oct 8 08:11:26 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Edwards! on Mon Oct 7 17:18:14 2013. OK, checked out the Bergen Street photo from 3/20/1933 in the IND history book printed in 1977...it is on the upper level! Looking through it, I see some stairway going downward as viewed from the southbound platform.-William A. Padron ["15th St"] |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Oct 8 10:35:39 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:55:27 2013. At that point in time, the depression, that was an uplift for the local general population. A sign of improvements!Thanks for the count. I guess it was a choice of where crossovers were located, for temporary terminals. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Tue Oct 8 10:41:40 2013, in response to The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Sun Oct 6 14:28:55 2013. Super Thread, I love this History, how the IND evolved, in its early years. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 8 13:13:39 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 8 00:28:20 2013. Every now and then there are pairs of terminals with a named route, and over time, those same pair of terminals gets a new route designation.For example: The old EE from 71st Avenue-Continental Avenue was originally an RR, then the EE, then the N-train rush hour specials, and now back to the RR weekday route with the Montague Street tunnel closed. How many routes over the years have traveled between 57th Street and Coney Island? Mike |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Oct 8 13:20:25 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 8 13:13:39 2013. Yes, but the AA was re-used for exactly the same route.I think the W will join this list when the SAS opens up. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Oct 8 14:40:51 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 8 04:32:47 2013. The IND was built to be a truly comprehensive system with major trunk lines spreading out to less dense areas. The platforms were long enough that they yet to be enlarged, the entrances/exits were designed for great rider convenience, and the network/transfer opportunities were well thought out. The tragedy is that nothing of the Second System has been opened yet and the pitifully inadequate SAS being built is over half a century late.That said, the IND rules. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 15:04:49 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Mon Oct 7 15:56:13 2013. The 6th Ave Line was finished as part of the WPA or PWA (New Deal). But the first parts opened in 1932 (before FDR was even elected) and even much of the rest of it was well underway by then.So it's a misconception that the whole IND was built as part of the New Deal. Many people think that quite concretely- but politics aside, the timeline shows them to be wrong. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:09:23 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 15:04:49 2013. I understand that the initial portions of the IND opener before FDR's administration but there were portions built in the 1930s with Fed funds. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:23:03 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 8 13:13:39 2013. Actually, the original BMT route to Ctl was the Brighton Lcl till circa 1960 when the first R-27s arrived and the routes were swapped. The few R-27s that saw Brighton Lcl service to CTL carried the designation "QT" and when the routes were swapped, many of the 4 Av lcls that first went to Ctl were composed of ABs and carried no letter signs at all. In 1976 when the N was routes to Ctl it ran the same hours as the EE with selected intervals operating only between Ctl and Canal or Whl. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 17:00:15 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:09:23 2013. Ok, then. We're in agreement :) |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 17:04:24 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by MainR3664 on Tue Oct 8 17:00:15 2013. Correct. Your wording seemed a little confusing though. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 8 17:32:17 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 8 13:13:39 2013. i think from 1961 to '67, during the weekends, the RR ran from 57th/7th to 95th/4th. |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Oct 8 18:30:28 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by William A. Padron on Mon Oct 7 16:27:46 2013. William: There was indeed an earlier "EE". It operated for a short time in 1937. Below is an excerpt from "The Orphans of Chrystie Street."History: A roll sign reading for “EE 8th Avenue Local” appeared on the roll-signs of the R-1’s when they were delivered in 1931. It was one of the eight original local routes provided in the initial planning of the IND. It was to be a local service connecting the Queens Boulevard Line in Queens with the 8th Avenue Line in Manhattan via the 53rd Street Tunnel. This first “EE” began operation on April 24, 1937 running between 169 Street, Queens and Church Avenue, Brooklyn via the 53rd Street Tunnel and the Rutgers Street Tunnel during non-rush hours. During the rush hours “E” trains would run between over the same route but would operate express in Queens while “GG” trains provided Queens Boulevard local service. Two months later on July 1, 1937 with the completion of the Crosstown Line the “E” was made a full time service and the “EE” joined the “AA” in temporary retirement. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 8 18:32:09 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by randyo on Tue Oct 8 16:23:03 2013. Whl = Whitehall? |
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Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline] |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Oct 8 18:34:41 2013, in response to Re: The IND's 1st 13 Months (1932-1933) [A Timeline], posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Oct 8 18:30:28 2013. the 1930's EE - 8th Ave Lcl route ran from continental avenue to hudson terminal (h&m). |
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