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| June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs (1228973) | |
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| (1228973) | |
June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013 June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last RunsWhile I cannot be absolutely certain today almost certainly witnessed the last run of the R-16's in revenue service. The cars had not been in use several days when an equipment shortage developed at Metropolitan Avenue and the yardmaster ordered on of the R-16 trainsets placed into service as a gap train to Myrtle Avenue. We do not have the full consist but the south car was 6337 and the north car was 6328. Thanks to "John from Glendale", the train operator and "Renee Gil" who was a passenger for this information. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1228985) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Jun 15 08:27:20 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. you're welcome |
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| (1229009) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 10:17:09 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. Thanks for posting Larry. It's great to see that we have discovered additional information about the last run of the R16s via another thread.As for the R16s themselves this is what they looked like in their last year of service. For all we know these could be the cars that made the last run as this picture is dated 1987. 
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| (1229015) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by John from Glendale on Sat Jun 15 10:51:16 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. You're welcome, and thanks for all your "Book of Last Runs" posts. |
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| (1229019) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by El-Train on Sat Jun 15 11:44:09 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 10:17:09 2013. Good lawd, to say they were hanging on by the skin of their teeth is an understatement. The late '80's must've been an interesting period for subway cars, with the pristine condition of the R-62's, R-68's and (to a lesser extent) Redbirds riding side by side with non-rehabbed cars like these. |
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| (1229024) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Jun 15 12:19:13 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 10:17:09 2013. yeah pretty muchsadly the R-16s were already in horrible shape in the 80s |
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| (1229027) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 12:41:45 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. The R16'S are my favorite cars. of course before the new door engines where installed. They are the first real modern cars. |
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| (1229032) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 15 13:12:07 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 12:41:45 2013. They were garbage before the door mod and were garbage after. |
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| (1229039) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 13:49:16 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 15 13:12:07 2013. I just liked the way they looked. |
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| (1229043) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by NorthShore on Sat Jun 15 14:17:03 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. The R-16's originally had the luxurious upholstered red leather seats.Just like the Mack C-49 buses of 1956 that had luxurious coral and light gray leather upholstered seats, they were both vandalized and slashed quite soon. |
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| (1229046) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 14:28:56 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by renee gil on Sat Jun 15 12:19:13 2013. Yeah it's too bad they didn't get painted green like the R10s did or red like some of the R27s and R30s did. They would of looked sharp rather then going out in that condition. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 14:30:39 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by NorthShore on Sat Jun 15 14:17:03 2013. Sucks the subway and the buses can't have upholstered seats anymore, because of vandalism. |
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| (1229068) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 15:50:07 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by NorthShore on Sat Jun 15 14:17:03 2013. I took them on the 15 Jamaica local around 1960. I was about 9. I remember the red seats and I liked the R10/R11 type seating that allowed a nice view by the window. Also the door window sash on the cars up to the R21's was nicer than the later cars with the thick rubber. and the round window in front gave it a nice look. Very sharp looking cars but it's a shame the mechanical parts turned out to be not so good. Were the GE and WH cars equal as far as poor performance? |
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| (1229069) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 15:52:03 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 15:50:07 2013. GE cars performed worse. They were retired in 1983 with only 28 years of service. The WH units lingered on for another four years. |
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| (1229071) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Sat Jun 15 15:57:16 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 15:52:03 2013. Thanx |
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| (1229084) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 17:34:07 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 10:17:09 2013. CJ: Thanks you for posting that picture but it hurts to look at it. The R-16's deserved a better sendoff.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1229091) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 18:01:16 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 17:34:07 2013. No problem and yeah I agree they did deserve better then that. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Sat Jun 15 18:55:27 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 14:28:56 2013. yup. it would of been interesting to the R16s in red or green. |
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| (1229190) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Jun 16 01:39:00 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sat Jun 15 10:17:09 2013. With a reference to Bernard Goetz on there. |
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| (1229198) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:49:56 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by renee gil on Sat Jun 15 18:55:27 2013. The R-16s actually did get painted in the R-29 tartar red scheme in 1968/69. |
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| (1229292) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 15:32:20 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:49:56 2013. 
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| (1229298) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Jun 16 15:40:52 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 15:32:20 2013. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars.chud1. :).... |
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| (1229376) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by 5119 on Sun Jun 16 20:19:18 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. Exactly what was wrong with the R-16'? I always thought of them as a very comfortable car, with the combination transverse/longitudinal seats with their red cushions. Did deferred maintenance play a role in their demise? It seems like the R-17's, a smaller version of the same car, didn't have the same reputation. |
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| (1229395) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by gbs on Sun Jun 16 21:04:48 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 15:32:20 2013. Is that a white paste-on "95 St" side sign, because the sign curtain lacked that destination?And is that an Astoria-line station? |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sun Jun 16 21:11:17 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 16 21:04:48 2013. Yes, that's what they did to the R16. The inside of the car was blank. They were restricted to the RR and RJ (95/Chambers in the rush). |
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| (1229413) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Sun Jun 16 22:40:04 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 17:34:07 2013. Larry, by any chance do you know when the last train of Hi-V Gibbs cars ran? I know 1958 was the last run. I think the last Hi-Vs ran in early 1959 with standard bodies only. All the Gibbs and Deckroofs were retired already. |
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| (1229419) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sun Jun 16 23:38:10 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by gbs on Sun Jun 16 21:04:48 2013. "And is that an Astoria-line station?"Yes, 30th Avenue. |
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| (1229422) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 17 00:55:27 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. When did they do that door conversion to the R16s? |
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| (1229423) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 17 01:09:25 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 17 00:55:27 2013. 1972ish. |
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| (1229424) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 17 01:21:37 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 17 01:09:25 2013. I can at least confirm that it hadn't been done yet in 1971 when I was there. |
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| (1229425) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jun 17 01:25:19 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Jun 17 00:55:27 2013. That was begun in 1973 and completed in 1974. |
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| (1229428) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 17 02:25:31 2013, in response to June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Sat Jun 15 07:05:48 2013. How interesting because I was on the M shuttle that day going to and from WWF at MSG that night.No one was happy when the R-16 returned to the M line in late 1986. Train crews didn't like the trains. T/O's said the trains were slow, especially upgrade spots like Willy B. C/R's said the doors were too slow. |
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| (1229429) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 02:47:02 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sun Jun 16 22:40:04 2013. I lived along the Bway IRT and went to high school at V/C starting in 1958 and I don't recall seeing any Ho-Vs in passenger service. There was an occasional Lo-V however. IN fact the last Bway Exp from V/C to Bkln before Bway went all local on the night of Feb 5, 1959 was a Lo-V. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Mon Jun 17 02:56:37 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 02:47:02 2013. 1958 was when the R22s came in, which means the Hi-Vs that were around were retired when those cars entered service. |
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| (1229435) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:12:57 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Sun Jun 16 02:49:56 2013. i'm talking about seeing the R16's in the "redbird treatment" of the 80s |
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| (1229439) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:20:07 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jun 16 15:32:20 2013. yup. this picture were taken not too long after the RR were re-routed up the Astoria (31st st) line.btw, where's king kong? |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 17 03:47:32 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 17 02:25:31 2013. I always thought it was risky putting running them south of Broad where they could foul up the N and R. The J was the logical route to use them, but they were committed to "cleaning" it up with R30's and an R16 J train after New Years 1986 was a rarity. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 17 09:08:44 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by CJ on Sun Jun 16 22:40:04 2013. Larry, by any chance do you know when the last train of Hi-V Gibbs cars ran? I know 1958 was the last runI can't give you an exact date. I can say that either in late April or early May 3562, 3584 and 3631 were still in service. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 17 09:14:32 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:20:07 2013. btw, where's king kong?You don't mean that 1976 imposter "Dino Kong" do you? That over rated monkey couldn't get a job with an organ grinder. Then he goes and picks on a poor old R-16. As if those cars hadn't suffered enough indignities. I am reminded of the old axiom "Never send a chimp to do a gorilla's job." Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 17 10:28:40 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jun 17 03:47:32 2013. IIRC, the R-16's ran in place of R-27/30's while they were being overhauled. Once they were all painted red and ready to be put back in service, the R-16's were gone.You're right about messing up other lines. The M was having breakdowns or just slow service in Brooklyn. I can't remember where the M was terminating in Brooklyn late 1986/1987 at the time. But I think during days it went to 9th Ave and during rush hour Bay Parkway. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by CJ on Mon Jun 17 11:17:08 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 17 09:08:44 2013. Thanks. On nycsubway.org it mentions that the last of the Hi-Vs were retired in mid-to late September of 1958.If that's true this could mean the Gibbs cars operated up until that date along with the Deckroofs (if any were still around by that point) and the standard bodied cars or Hedleys. I also assume no farewell fantrip was given to those cars, which is probably why there is no exact date on the retirement of the Hi-Vs. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 13:06:34 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 17 09:14:32 2013. haha |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:25:12 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 03:12:57 2013. By the time of the 1980s, the R-16s were so far gone, it would have been a waste of money to do a light GOH like the R-10s got or even just the redbird treatment. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 13:29:45 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:25:12 2013. ah, ok. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by renee gil on Mon Jun 17 16:21:32 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:25:12 2013. you're right |
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| (1229623) | |
Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:43:53 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by 5119 on Sun Jun 16 20:19:18 2013. Deferred maintenance was part of it. Prior to Chrystie St., the R-16s lived a relatively easy life. Except for 50 of them assigned to the Abbott for a few years in the late 50s and the 32 that were loaned to Jamaica Yard in 1966-67, all 200 remained out on the Three Stooges Division, where the ENY shop folks knew how to take care of them. That and the lighter demand worked in their favor. About the only time there would be a problem was if a blizzard bore down on Brooklyn and Queens. The R-16s would then be sent underground on the Larry while BMT standards trudged out to battle the elements on the Curly and Moe lines.After Chrystie St., the R-16s were shuffled around the IND and BMT. Inspections were less frequent, and with greater demand, they saw more service than they were accustomed to. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:46:25 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by El-Train on Sat Jun 15 11:44:09 2013. I prefer to remember them as they were the first time I rode on them on September 23, 1967 on a 15 across the Williamsburg Bridge. They still wore their original olive drab and had verticak door pockets. I found myself wondering, what's a 15?. I know what it is, btw.:) |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:48:41 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 17 09:14:32 2013. I would have liked to see Kong pick a fight with a BMT standard or Triplex. It might have turned out different.:) |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:50:26 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by randyo on Mon Jun 17 13:25:12 2013. I have a NY Times article about the demise of 6321, which had become one of the biggest lemons in the entire fleet. It was finally put out of its misery. A stark contrast to the Triplexes, which were still running beautifully when they were sent to premature slaughter. |
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Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jun 17 18:53:38 2013, in response to Re: June 15, 1987 - The Book of Last Runs, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jun 15 13:12:07 2013. Karl B says that when they were new, people loved them. I'll bet they were singing a different tune by, say, 1970. |
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