|
|
| Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av (1224218) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 5 |
||
|
| (1224523) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri May 24 16:37:47 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. Actually, there have been several proposals over the years for Bronx routes for the SAS. One was to connect the SAS to the Pelham Line since it was built to dual contract standards and all that would be required would be to shave back the station platforms. The Dyre Av Line would also be connected utilizing the old NYW&B ROW from Harlem River although that would now be difficult since some of the viaducts over streets in the West Farms area have been demolished. At some point in the mid 1970s, a much earlier plan dating back to unification was revived which would have left the Pelham Line with the IRT and connected the SAS to a reclaimed White Plains Rd Line which was also built to dual contract standards. The last plan would probably have made more sense since there is more or less a natural connection between the Dyre and Wh Pl Rd lines. |
|
|
| (1224527) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri May 24 16:45:04 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri May 24 15:02:45 2013. F to Lex/63 St and transfer to an uptown Q. |
|
|
| (1224528) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 16:46:06 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri May 24 15:39:54 2013. Probably because they usually end up right behind another A train and don't begin picking up customers until 59th. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1224529) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri May 24 16:47:05 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by grand concourse on Fri May 24 08:59:53 2013. If anyone could, it would be Moses but only if he (or his clone) would do it for mass transit and NOT highways. |
|
|
| (1224530) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Concourse Express on Fri May 24 16:47:21 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. Interesting ideas you put forth here, Edwards!1]DIRECT connection to Nassau st line. I think this is still possible even with Deep Chrystie. Branch off S/O Grand St, connect to the former Nassau - Manny B ROW and reconfigure tracks b/w Chambers and Canal on the (J)/(Z)... As for platform extensions, you'd probably need ~65 feet worth at most - if indeed the plats can handle 8-car 67' consists w/o "overhang." 2]Manhattan Bridge. no direct connection to the Manny B from Chrystie st? Might be doable if MTA changes its mind later and revives Shallow Chrystie option. Cross-plat xfers at Grand plus possibility of switches b/w existing (B)/(D) ROW and SAS... 3]The Bronx. HELL YES, though I think you know where I'd go with this. SAS extension to The Hub and points north via 3rd Ave - agreed. However, I'd only extend it to Fordham Plaza/Fordham U. Methinks an extension of the Concourse Line is better suited for connections to the WPR el and Co-op City; while I've always championed an extension to Bay Plaza, going a lil' further to Section 5 (Einstein Loop) brings one within two short blocks of the proposed MNR Co-op City station! [I know these ideas may be far-fetched; a Bronxite can dream, can't he? ;-) ] visit my blog! |
|
|
| (1224533) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Concourse Express on Fri May 24 16:51:05 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 16:46:06 2013. Is this still the case (Rock spcls starting at 59)? I ask because I recall the specials now starting from 168 or 207 based on the (A) schedule pre-Sandy (or maybe I'm remembering incorrectly)...visit my blog! |
|
|
| (1224534) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by mrw on Fri May 24 16:56:50 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. Why not continue the line west on 125th St with stations located at Lenox (2/3 transfer), St Nick (ABCD transfer) & Broadway (1 transfer)?While most people still commute downtown/uptown, patterns are changing and there are no existing eastside-westside transfers uptown. |
|
|
| (1224536) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 16:59:26 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri May 24 15:38:38 2013. Transfer at Jamaica to what? The J? The E? There's no reasonably fast service to Lower Manhattan from the east. |
|
|
| (1224537) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 17:02:55 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 13:25:26 2013. Christie was widened between 1929 and 1934 as I said, and not in the 1960s. |
|
|
| (1224539) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 17:07:28 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Concourse Express on Fri May 24 16:51:05 2013. I think only one of them goes into service at 168th. |
|
|
| (1224540) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Fri May 24 17:12:07 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 17:02:55 2013. It may very well have been widened in anticipation of the construction of the SAS since those plans do go back that far. The IND (or really the city) did some of that in ordered to facilitate construction of other subway lines. Prior to the construction of the IND, 6 Av did not exist S/O W 3 St but was through routed to connect with Church St at Canal St. Church St itself was also widened towards the west to facilitate subway construction in that area. Although I can't find any accurate dates, It seems that Pitkin Av did not exist east of Ruby (76) St at the Bkln/Qns border but was through routed to South Rd sometime around the time the IND Pitkin Av section was built and in the approximate area of the elusive 76 St station. |
|
|
| (1224541) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 17:19:24 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri May 24 15:35:12 2013. True, but it's a long walk from the future LIRR Concourse to the 4/5/6, and crowded with people even now. |
|
|
| (1224550) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 18:01:35 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Fri May 24 15:37:11 2013. That's true. For some reason planners no longer consider express tracks to be worth it. |
|
|
| (1224551) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 18:06:04 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 15:32:18 2013. I would think it would be harder to connect north of BMT Court St, since at that point all lines will be descending for the river tunnels. Going under means the connector would have to be deeper initially, and going over means you would have to "chase" the Montague St line until it levels off. |
|
|
| (1224552) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 18:10:07 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 14:21:39 2013. The capacity is kind of wasted though, since the Concourse line is so close to the Jerome Ave line. |
|
|
| (1224553) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 18:18:31 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by mrw on Fri May 24 16:56:50 2013. A 125th St crosstown would be a good option too, if we can get another line in. |
|
|
| (1224556) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 18:46:58 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by randyo on Fri May 24 17:12:07 2013. 6th Avenue (and 7th Avenue) were extended at the same time as the subway, not in anticipation of it. Houston Street was also widened for the subway, but the widening was extended all the way to the East River. |
|
|
| (1224557) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 18:55:19 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 15:20:02 2013. Chrystie-Forsyth Parkway
|
|
|
| (1224560) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 19:00:30 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 16:11:58 2013. LOL!The Lower Manhattan Expressway was to have run from the Holland Tunnel to the Williamsburg Bridge and it was alive during the entire 60s; it was not officially killed until 1971. In fact, the only section of the expressway to have been built is where it would have crossed the Chrystie Subway. It is 156 feet long, parallel to Broome Street and entirely underground. |
|
|
| (1224561) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri May 24 19:01:34 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 18:46:58 2013. Though wasn't there supposed to be a second system route that ran under Houston st to the river? |
|
|
| (1224562) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by merrick1 on Fri May 24 19:02:41 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by grand concourse on Fri May 24 08:59:53 2013. Moses couldn't get the Oyster Bay Bridge built. He backed down when the NIMBYs were powerful people on the North Shore and in Westchester. When the NIMBYs were poor people in the Bronx he bulldozed them out of the way. |
|
|
| (1224563) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 19:03:27 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 18:55:19 2013. Great pic..there are also pics in scientific America/popular science,something to that effect describing the route along 2nd avenue in cut away layers. |
|
|
| (1224566) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 19:10:43 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 19:00:30 2013. Well..there is also the Manny B upper level section that was built in anticipation.The Willie B section was flawed..it would have disrupted,especially the Nassau and Houston st subway, network for miles around..since it was placed in an open cut! ridiculous. |
|
|
| (1224567) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 19:12:18 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri May 24 19:01:34 2013. yup..with a stop at Essex st and another near the river. |
|
|
| (1224580) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by NorthShore on Fri May 24 21:07:55 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by randyo on Fri May 24 16:37:47 2013. I believe there was another idea of using the local tracks of the (Metro North) Harlem Line for subway service as a replacement for the 3rd Ave El. |
|
|
| (1224586) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 24 21:52:03 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 13:03:04 2013. Even the phases could be reordered by the time they are actually built. |
|
|
| (1224589) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Fri May 24 22:02:49 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by grand concourse on Fri May 24 08:59:53 2013. Maybe we would simply need to manipulate the DNA a bit more then so that he could deal with rich NIMBY's. |
|
|
| (1224591) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 22:04:43 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by NorthShore on Fri May 24 21:07:55 2013. All 4 tracks of the Harlem Line in the Bronx are exceedingly busy, and were so even 45 years ago. |
|
|
| (1224608) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 23:33:30 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 22:04:43 2013. They were going to add 2 more, at a time when just demolishing buildings alongside the ROW in the Bronx could have just been left to circumstance instead of deliberate action. |
|
|
| (1224609) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Concourse Express on Fri May 24 23:34:59 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 18:18:31 2013. I agree on the 125 St crosstown (Phase II extension); however, with all the discussion of the water table at the west end, perhaps routing the extension up Amsterdam Ave to 137/City College and connecting to the (1) there is a better idea?visit my blog! |
|
|
| (1224619) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat May 25 01:11:58 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 14:57:42 2013. I was referring to Brooklyn as a whole. And there is no bottleneck at Hoyt, |
|
|
| (1224622) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Sat May 25 02:03:47 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Avid Reader on Fri May 24 09:33:17 2013. According to this page : The tracks do curve to the west to begin the swing from 7th avenue to C.P.W. When the 63rd Street line was built, the express tracks had to make a reflex curve to now head east. |
|
|
| (1224623) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Sat May 25 02:06:30 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 16:48:28 2013. 
|
|
|
| (1224633) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 25 06:35:34 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 15:59:54 2013. i remember that time period. i remember stories in the news about tunnel construction scaring the zoo animals in Central Park. they may have been temporarily relocated until construction was completed. |
|
|
| (1224634) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat May 25 07:47:15 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 16:59:26 2013. Yes, so it would be better achieved by extending the LIRR (or having PATH recapture the Atlantic Branch), so that full-length trains could run, not an airport terminal circulator. |
|
|
| (1224642) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat May 25 09:38:21 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Sat May 25 02:06:30 2013. Someone has to ask, so it may as well be me. What was the purpose of the knee wall in the center of the tracks and why was it removed? (If it is still there I certainly never noticed it.) |
|
|
| (1224643) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 25 09:42:03 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Sat May 25 02:06:30 2013. PORK |
|
|
| (1224644) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by NorthShore on Sat May 25 09:45:33 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat May 25 09:38:21 2013. Those knee walls were sound buffers.They were concrete block with small slits to deflect sound. They work excellently and I wonder why they were not used at more stations throughout the system They were also used along Queens Blvd. which had fast expresses speeding past local stations, many on curves, causing unbearable screeching. These walls completely deadened the sound. It just sounded like a whooshing sound with these knee walls. |
|
|
| (1224650) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Sat May 25 10:03:48 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat May 25 09:38:21 2013. They enable safe space for personnel to clear up in a column-less station. Judging by the layout in the photo, I would even say that they would allow work to proceed on one track without flagging required on the adjacent track. |
|
|
| (1224652) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Sat May 25 10:11:15 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by kew gardens teleport on Sat May 25 07:47:15 2013. Ah, ok. I think that was basically always the plan. LIRR was going to be extended to Lower Manhattan, and transfers would be made at Jamaica.What's interesting is that at one point, this project had $2 Billion earmarked for it. Still, it never got off the ground. |
|
|
| (1224661) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Sat May 25 12:36:07 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Sat May 25 10:11:15 2013. Yeah, they were going to steal the Cranberry tube. That's why it never got anywhere. |
|
|
| (1224667) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Renee Gil on Sat May 25 13:12:48 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Avid Reader on Sat May 25 09:42:03 2013. what? |
|
|
| (1224674) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 14:13:20 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Thu May 23 11:06:34 2013. Despite criticism, routing was changed from 61st St to 63rd St in 1963*. You are right about Rockefeller Univ's seismograph argument. Also remember who was governor- Nelson "I'm cuming, Leslie, but my heart is going"- Rockefeller. The Citizens Budget Committee wanted the original 61st St route, so that transfers could be made at 60St/5Av and 60St/Lex. They said that a 63rd st tunnel would be underused, since it had no transfers. sadly, the politicos won again.* A HISTORY OF THE NEW YORK CITY SUBWAY SYSTEM, part III, by Cunningham and DeHart, page 50. |
|
|
| (1224675) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 14:29:25 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 14:57:42 2013. Like a connecting tunnel from Montague/Clinton to Schermerhorn/Clinton and reopen the Court St station? (Sorry Museum!)I always liked this option, especially if the SAS is ever connected to Nassau Street line. The SAS could provide local service on Fulton. |
|
|
| (1224676) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 15:11:04 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Concourse Express on Fri May 24 23:34:59 2013. Yea, continue it up Amsterdam and connecting it with either the "C" local tracks, or the "A" ones, at 161st street! This way, you can free transfer at 168th St for the #1 train. I'm undecided about stations at 155th St and 145th St. |
|
|
| (1224679) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 15:25:13 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. I agree with most of what you said. The IND Concourse line should have been extended from 205th St, under the Metro North/Bronx River, and Duncomb Ave, to a terminal at Gun Hill/White Plains Roads. The old 3rd ave el platform could have been converted into a mezzanine with escalators from the new IND station (like B'way Jct-ENY). From there, there should have been provisions for an eastbound expansion along gun hill Road to Coop city, vis Bartow Ave. |
|
|
| (1224681) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 25 15:40:26 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 15:25:13 2013. I believe the actual plan was over by CoOp city, under the swamp originally with a transfer at Burke to the 2/5. |
|
|
| (1224682) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 16:00:01 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 25 15:40:26 2013. Which, perhaps, would have tied in with the original plans to extend the IND from 205th St, under the Bronx River, to Burke Ave, as I recall. The plans also called for a free transfer between the IRT/IND at Burke/White Plains. |
|
|
| (1224684) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 25 16:07:18 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Elkeeper on Sat May 25 16:00:01 2013. Yep ... that map is floating around somewhere and that was the plan. I think it was supposed to pick up the NYWB somewhere along there. |
|
|
| (1224685) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Sat May 25 16:28:16 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Sat May 25 02:03:47 2013. He was talking about 6 Av not 7 Av which would have had a slight westward swing in anticipation of the BMT being extended up CPW before the IND eventually got that route. |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 5 |
||
