|
|
| tracks after 57th St/6 Av (1224218) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
|
Page 1 of 5 |
|
|
|
| (1224221) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013, in response to tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 10:00:01 2013. I assume you mean "opened up for use" as a through station to 21st-Queensbridge? That happened in 1988, not 1989. And the station itself opened in 1968 as part of the 1967 expansion program.AFAIK, the tracks ended at bumper blocks just beyond the station although trackways might have gone a bit further before hitting a wall. The 63rd Street Tunnel was still in planning stages in 1968 and there was nothing for the tail tracks to connect to yet. I think there was a crossover just south of the station so that trains could enter either track before entering the station from the south. The station at 63rd/Lex was completed in 1983 but not opened to service until 1988. |
|
|
| (1224228) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu May 23 11:06:34 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. Tracks north of 57th certainly took a long time to materialize. There was a major fuss about which route the tracks would take to get from 6th Ave to the east side, and also a major fuss about which crosstown street they would use.Original plans called for cut and cover through Central Park that would wipe out a lot of majestic old trees. As for the cross street, Rockefeller U was concerned about their seismograph (at 61st IIRC). |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1224229) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Gene B. on Thu May 23 11:11:46 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Thu May 23 11:06:34 2013. I believe the cut and cover was also discarded because of an adverse effect to the Central Park Zoo. |
|
|
| (1224234) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Thu May 23 11:19:45 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. u are correct on da crossovers, they are south of da station.chud1 |
|
|
| (1224267) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 15:59:54 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. the tunnels through Central Park were started in 1971..completed by 76..cut and cover WAS used for PART of its construction through the park..I use to go there on weekends to watch the building of Lexington station[man oh man was that hole deep...those guys looked like ants to me..] At 57th st..a wooden barricade stood behind the buffer,blocking tunnel work for years from about 1974 until it was removed sometime in the early 80's. some trains were parked back there as layups. |
|
|
| (1224271) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 23 16:20:17 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. The tunnel did in fact open in 1989, not 1988. |
|
|
| (1224275) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 16:48:28 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 23 16:20:17 2013. October 29th, to be exact. Rode it the first day. An ERA R10 fantrip also visited the line on that day. |
|
|
| (1224278) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu May 23 17:00:40 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. I recall a block wall there... |
|
|
| (1224279) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu May 23 17:04:12 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 16:48:28 2013. That was a great trip, I remember it well. the R-10's did themselves proud. |
|
|
| (1224280) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Mr Railfan on Thu May 23 17:06:30 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu May 23 17:04:12 2013. Compared to todays R32s , how fast were they? |
|
|
| (1224290) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 18:34:23 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mr Railfan on Thu May 23 17:06:30 2013. They accelerated faster. Perception of speed was probably enhanced by how loud they were. |
|
|
| (1224291) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 23 18:39:15 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 18:34:23 2013. They still had shunting though. That does make a difference compared to today's "anything" aside from the arnines which haven't been neutered either. |
|
|
| (1224330) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:39:10 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. um, the 63rd Street line opened in 1989 not '88. The archer ave extention opened in '88. |
|
|
| (1224331) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:40:10 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 15:59:54 2013. cool thanks. |
|
|
| (1224332) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:43:50 2013, in response to tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 10:00:01 2013. What I meant to say was before the 63rd street subway line opened up for service in 1989. I know the 57th street station opened in 1968 (7/1/1968) to be exact. I just got my words mixed up, thats all. Sorry about that. I freaking hate when this type of thing happens. |
|
|
| (1224333) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:49:46 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 23 16:20:17 2013. he must of gotten confused the 63rd street line opening with the opening with archer avenue subway which indeed opened on 12/10/1988 (but actually completed about 4 years before it opened). |
|
|
| (1224335) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 21:03:48 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Thu May 23 10:24:47 2013. actually 63rd/Lex was completed in 1984-85. Around the same time as the archer ave subway. |
|
|
| (1224341) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:03:34 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 16:48:28 2013. you mean that first night..i caught the very first B train out of 50th st[R40S],with the fan window loaded with on lookers..at 21st street,there was some confusion about what would cover the gap in service between the F/Q and B services. the JFK EXPRESS covered the return run,then F/Q combine trains for the overnights. it was okay..but nothing like when Archer avenue subway opened. |
|
|
| (1224342) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:13:43 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:49:46 2013. yeah..it was finished by 85',but the MTA didn't have a real plan to operate it..plus it was grounded in controversy drummed up by various politicians..who were crying about the missing links..And the opposition who were crying how they shouldn't be built.the problem here was the MTA's own indifference. |
|
|
| (1224344) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:19:01 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 21:03:48 2013. yeah...except the tunnel was unusable due to flooding..a low ceiling beam at First Avenue that trains couldn't pass under...and a new track bed that crumbled to dust even before trains operated along it. |
|
|
| (1224345) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:21:47 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:13:43 2013. I believe, much like the Archer Ave line, the feds forced the MTA to open it up or else return all the federal $$$ that was put into building it. |
|
|
| (1224346) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:26:40 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 20:43:50 2013. don't worry about it..we got you.i find subway construction very interesting..but for some reason,dont care much for the new projects going on now. they are taking way too long to finish..cost way too much for what we are getting.. the only folks who seem to be benefiting so far is the LIRR riders with its new terminal. without the SAS downtown to 34th st,it wont do jack to cover the expected crowds out of GCT and the surrounding area,nor help the LEXINGTON Avenue line one bit. |
|
|
| (1224347) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:34:04 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:21:47 2013. absolutely..Reagan said it out of his own mouth..after the MTA tried to do to both the Archer/63rd lines what they did to SAS...not to mention all that cash they kicked out for the R44/46 cars[that turned out to be lemons] built for the lines.Funny thing about that..other cities managed to take the Federal funds and finish its lines like Atlanta,Baltimore..Miami..LA..SF/OAKLAND..BOSTON..and especially Washington DC. |
|
|
| (1224349) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:57:22 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:26:40 2013. Every rider on the SAS is one rider of the Lex. Even if they only build the "stubway" and it carries 150,000 riders a day, it means 10% lower ridership for the IRT. |
|
|
| (1224351) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 23 23:14:13 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:57:22 2013. inb4 Olog claims this is a government plot to bankrupt the IRT. :) |
|
|
| (1224354) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:57:22 2013. like you said..its only a drop in the bucket.the REAL FLAW in the MTA's SAS plan is is the very fact that its land locked. The present plan has it acting as a BRANCH line,instead of serving as a trunk. Lacking a downtown connection to Brooklyn..regardless of the Broadway Q train..is a mistake. No Bronx connection..the original purpose for this line being built in the first place..is a foolish if not laughable error. Its not too late to make modifications. 1]DIRECT connection to Nassau st line. The issue here is whether or not platform extensions should be built along its stations.. I say why bother? running 8 car trains along could serve the Queens Blvd local from the south from Broad st or Brooklyn to the 63rd st line..replacing one south Brooklyn service..perhaps the B train. Another way of using this line is build a connection to the Montague tunnel directly from the Water st subway using the tail tracks after the Hanover Square station,saving billions by not building another East river crossing at that time. 2]Manhattan Bridge. no direct connection to the Manny B from Chrystie st? insanity..a ramp should be built to the upper level to cross the river,and to facilitate interchangeability between route in case of a problem. 3]The Bronx. Why oh why isnt there any effort to include Bronx in the plan? Could it be they dont know where to send the line once it gets there? lets give them a hand.. Send the route to the HUB at 149th st for a start..with transfers to the 2/5 West farm line and the Webster BRT line. From there,it should be routed up along 3RD AVENUE to as far as CO-OP CITY via a new type of elevated box structure akin to the AIR TRAIN in Jamaica. Another route the line could take is the original idea planned by the BOT..using the Concourse line...and extending that as far as GUN HILL ROAD,for transfers to the White Plains line. Im a realist,and I know most of these wont be built..but something must be done to get the most bang for tax payer money if the SAS is going to do its job right..which is relieving the congestion along the east side,replacing what was once lost to the wrecking ball..and bringing new transit options to areas that lack them. |
|
|
| (1224366) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 03:27:47 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. A new tunnel to Brooklyn could solve a couple of IND bottlenecks that's currently plaguing the system.As for the Manhattan Bridge access, there 3 proposals for Chrystie St., one of which is to go with the '60's plan of the SAS being at the same level as the 6th Ave lines (shallow Chrystie?). For now though, they are only proposals, nothing has been set. If they go with shallow Chrystie, that would solve the problem with bridge access. |
|
|
| (1224376) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 24 07:12:43 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 15:59:54 2013. Amazing to think that the tunnels were compelte years before revenue service started... |
|
|
| (1224377) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Fri May 24 07:14:16 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:19:01 2013. I remember the low ceiling beam issue...how the hell did that kind of incompetence happen? |
|
|
| (1224379) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by renee gil on Fri May 24 07:47:42 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:19:01 2013. yep, almost forgot about that. |
|
|
| (1224385) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Mitch45 on Fri May 24 08:23:40 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Thu May 23 22:26:40 2013. We need to exhume and clone Robert Moses but manipulate his DNA so as to make him want to build only subways and not roads. |
|
|
| (1224388) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by grand concourse on Fri May 24 08:59:53 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Mitch45 on Fri May 24 08:23:40 2013. You could, but times were different back then. With so much rules and NIMBYs, I doubt anyone can iron fist their demands to go their way . |
|
|
| (1224393) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:18:51 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 23 22:57:22 2013. Exactly.And you see lots of people transferring from the Lex to the N/R/Q at 59th or to the shuttle at 42nd. The extended Q will help many of them. |
|
|
| (1224399) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Fri May 24 09:33:17 2013, in response to tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by renee gil on Thu May 23 10:00:01 2013. I'm curious.Did the construction north of 57Th Street allow for the possibility of a left turn, to the west. This left turn would allow for a possible merge with the tail tunnel north of 57Th Street and 7Th Ave heading to the unbuilt BMT Morningside Heights line or the 8Th Ave CPW line. The purpose, a JIC line or future connections. |
|
|
| (1224400) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:37:09 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Avid Reader on Fri May 24 09:33:17 2013. I rode the 7th Ave extension to 63rd once during a GO and di not see any break in the wall that would facilitate a westward turn. |
|
|
| (1224423) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 11:52:50 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 09:18:51 2013. Yes, the Q on 2 Av will pull lots of UES riders headed for Times/Herald Sq and MSG/Penn Station out of Grand Central. It'll also ease reverse demand at the 51st St/Lex connection with the E/M. |
|
|
| (1224425) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 11:56:29 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Edwards! on Fri May 24 00:17:57 2013. It will provide significant relief to the #6 in Manhattan. |
|
|
| (1224426) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 12:00:14 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 03:27:47 2013. The biggest bottlenecks are Rogers St and the capacity limits of Flatbush Ave. The Brooklyn IRT cannot handle 60 TPH as it should. |
|
|
| (1224427) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by R36 #9346 on Fri May 24 12:02:53 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 03:27:47 2013. I think they've all but abandoned the shallow Chrystie alternative due to the fact that building it would essentially rip up part of Sara D. Roosevelt Park. |
|
|
| (1224429) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 12:05:45 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 11:52:50 2013. It'll also ease reverse demand at the 51st St/Lex connection with the E/M.I don't see that one. The N/R/current Q are already available at 60th to do exactly the same thing as the future Q at 63rd. |
|
|
| (1224430) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 12:06:16 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri May 24 12:02:53 2013. Which itself was created by the construction of the Chrystie St subway in the 60's. |
|
|
| (1224431) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 12:06:50 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 03:27:47 2013. A new tunnel to Brooklyn could solve a couple of IND bottlenecks that's currently plaguing the system.What would those be? Brookyln has plenty of untapped capacity in its under river tunnels. |
|
|
| (1224437) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri May 24 12:50:26 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 11:52:50 2013. It'll also ease reverse demand at the 51st St/Lex connection with the E/M.I don't see that one. The N/R/current Q are already available at 60th to do exactly the same thing as the future Q at 63rd. |
|
|
| (1224440) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 12:55:36 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by R36 #9346 on Fri May 24 12:02:53 2013. I'm not so sure about that. Remember, phase 2 (or whatever it will be called) is a long way off, things can change. |
|
|
| (1224441) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 12:55:58 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 12:05:45 2013. But either way is a transfer. Some people who currently transfer at 51/53/Lex because their destination is closer to 6th or 8th may end up preferring a one seat ride and a longer walk. |
|
|
| (1224442) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 13:00:20 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by AlM on Fri May 24 12:05:45 2013. There is a considerable demand for UES rides headed over to the West Side at Lex/51st. It's not all Queens riders heading for the East Side IRT. These people can now take the Q to the F or just use the Q. |
|
|
| (1224443) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 13:02:32 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 24 12:06:16 2013. FALSE! Did you just assume that or did you actually read it somewhere?The park was built between 1929 and 1934. |
|
|
| (1224444) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 24 13:03:04 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 12:55:36 2013. Phase 3. 2 is north of 96th to 125th. |
|
|
| (1224446) | |
Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 24 13:03:53 2013, in response to Re: tracks after 57th St/6 Av, posted by J Trainloco on Fri May 24 12:06:50 2013. 1) Fulton St. line, where the local has to merge with the express to get into Manhattan, thus limiting both.2) OK, not so much a bottleneck but a faster (and thus more attractive) way into Manhattan: tying the express tracks at Bergen St into the tunnel. If you bypass Court St., which is seriously redundant, the next stop would be lower Manhattan. 3-4 stops after that would be Chrystie St., which, if we go with the shallow option, would be an easy connection with the B and D. |
|
|
|
|
Page 1 of 5 |
|
