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| Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake (1223544) | |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:41:22 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Mon May 20 11:15:57 2013. Islanders are going to move to brooklyn, so it's gonna be crowded there. And if there's a team that gets shafted back to jersey, it should be the Nets. The Rangers and Knicks should never be moved from Ny. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:42:59 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 02:37:06 2013. Ha! Wouldn't that be something. The knicks and rangers both on LI, while the islanders and nets are in the city. |
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| (1223824) | |
Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:43:24 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by G1RavagesDad on Mon May 20 19:11:00 2013. +1 |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 20 22:46:25 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by G1RavagesDad on Mon May 20 19:11:00 2013. Madison Square Garden is as much a vital part of New York City as the Empire State Building100% false. There have been four MSGs already; there has been and will be only one ESB. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 22:49:52 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:42:59 2013. I live for irony, bro. :) |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:50:25 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 20 12:04:33 2013. Rebuild the temple! |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 22:51:13 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:50:25 2013. C'mon, man ... this is subchat! TEAR IT DOWN! :) |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:52:30 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by AlM on Mon May 20 09:03:53 2013. Agreed. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:54:39 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 22:51:13 2013. Lol, if i said tear down the dome of the rock, there'd be hell to pay. Too risky. |
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| (1223833) | |
Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 22:57:19 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Mon May 20 22:54:39 2013. I suspect the Astoria el would bring down even further hell. :) |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 00:52:46 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 20 12:05:12 2013. Yes, and probably a LOT more:There were a lot of areas of the old Penn Station that in the 1970s and '80s would have been spots criminals, even more so than they did then and would be now would easily be able to hide in. The current setup probably prevented crime around Penn Station from becoming far worse in the 1970s and '80s than it would likely have if the old station were still there. As said, what I would do if they do move MSG (and they will eventually have to build a new MSG) is to keep 2 Penn Plaza and build a smaller version of the old Penn Station (with the ability to include office towers on top of it), with the existing entrances kept and the grand entrance on 8th Avenue. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 01:06:13 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by chud1 on Mon May 20 16:19:45 2013. It's $750 million. This probably buys them 15 years to get a new site. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 01:10:51 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 20 14:10:15 2013. What that $750 million renovation did was buy them 15 years to get a new site. They will eventually (even if not now) have to replace the current MSG, and by the time it becomes appropriate for a new site, 28th-30th between 9th and 10th Avenues might very well be the ideal place for it. At that point, I would build a smaller version of the old Penn Station once that did happen (and it will eventually with MSG) as noted in other posts. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 21 01:11:24 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 00:52:46 2013. Don't agree. GCT was no more a crime haven than post-conversion. NYP may have been more of a crime haven, to boot. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Tue May 21 02:00:05 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by RockParkMan on Mon May 20 22:17:13 2013. Shut up, liberal KKKDickParkGirl. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 21 02:16:40 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by G1Ravage on Tue May 21 02:00:05 2013. pwn3d. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 21 03:01:59 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by G1RavagesDad on Mon May 20 19:11:00 2013. i never said MSG was not important.chud1 |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by JBar387 on Tue May 21 03:16:12 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 01:06:13 2013. Really? It seem only the city says so.Madison Square Garden to recoup nearly $1 billion in 5 years |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 21 03:18:23 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 01:06:13 2013. ok, but i am figuring that da final cost might be 1 billion.chud1 |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue May 21 03:28:20 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 20 12:04:33 2013. The Dome of the Rock is situated on the spot that is believed to have been where the Holy of Holies in the Temple was located. Al-Aqsa is located further to the south. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Tue May 21 03:56:52 2013, in response to Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by WillD on Sun May 19 20:45:16 2013. Didn't we just praise Barclays for being on top of LIRR in Brooklyn, allowing for excellent public transportation access? I'd love to see the old Penn Station come back, but MSG at NYP makes sense. Only place it could be moved to is the far west side (which someone else suggested would allow for ferry access which would also be great), but you kill NJ Transit access (at least with LIRR you could maybe get away with building a platform at WSY). Sorry guys, reality sucks |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by merrick1 on Tue May 21 06:48:12 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by RockParkMan on Mon May 20 22:17:13 2013. What's wrong with sports, or concerts or the circus or the dog show for the that matter? |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by merrick1 on Tue May 21 06:55:22 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 01:06:13 2013. So why replace a profitable business with a train station which will probably lose money? |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Tue May 21 09:26:04 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by merrick1 on Tue May 21 06:55:22 2013. You could build a 'mall' over it. Manhattan mall keeps shrinking that there may not be a mall left. But i do agree that as nice as it would be to have penn station back above ground, i don't see msg being relocated especially off a very good location. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 09:43:40 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Tue May 21 09:26:04 2013. You do not see it.Buildings do not last forever. Eventually it will be cost effective to move the thing than to rebuild it. AND they do not have a perpetual lease, sooo.. If TPTB decides that it is done, it is done! |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue May 21 09:46:51 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 21 01:11:24 2013. Closing GCT during the night helped.But I do remember the waiting room near 42nd Street, and the area with all the phone booths and directories from all over the country being completely covered with vagrants. Having the current ticket offices for OTB did not help the ambiance either. In The old Penn Station, that huge entry way for taxis would have had to be closed after 09/11/01, and would have been a huge waste space. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 21 09:46:53 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 09:43:40 2013. AND they do not have a perpetual leaseThat is correct. The Dolan company owns MSG outright. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 10:19:31 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by AlM on Tue May 21 09:46:53 2013. The own MSG, They do NOT own the ground that it sits on. That is owned by AMTRAK.ROAR |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 21 10:59:04 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 10:19:31 2013. Agreed. But they own in perpetuity (not for a limited number of years) the right to have a building above that ground.The only thing that needs to get renewed is their operating permit from NYC. But that's basically like a movie theater operating permit (though on a larger scale). |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 21 14:06:45 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Sun May 19 21:54:55 2013. Yup. The chance to evict them is gone. Plus where would they move to? Back to the original madison sq area and bulldoze the parkIf MSG didn't get the multi million $ makeover, the the obvious choice would be the Farley Post Office. The old Penn Sta was built in the right place with the 7th and later 8th Ave subways with stops right there. Building a new Penn St. where Farley is makes no sense. You have only one major subway line and all the platforms are east of Farley. Penn Sta. is screwed, plain and simple. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Tue May 21 14:32:08 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 21 14:06:45 2013. Agreed about that farley building penn station idea. They'd be better off 'moving the building over' than to use that post office location as the new penn station. It'd be nice to have something as beutiful as grand central terminal, but as long as MSG is still here, i don't see the point of changing the current penn station as far as above ground wise. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 21 14:45:43 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 21 14:06:45 2013. If MSG didn't get the multi million $ makeover, the the obvious choice would be the Farley Post OfficeNegatory on that. That wipes out yet another Beaux-Arts building in the same vicinity. The old Penn Sta was built in the right place with the 7th and later 8th Ave subways with stops right there When NYP opened, the only city lines adjacent were the 6th and 9th Avenue IRT elevated lines. The H&M's 33rd Street station opened in November 1910, the same month and year as NYP, so that made it the only nearby subterranean railroad line. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:05:01 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by G1RavagesDad on Mon May 20 19:11:00 2013. MSG should be in Chinatown. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:06:45 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Sun May 19 22:49:52 2013. How will moving MSG translate into a "roomier" NYP for the trains, eh?Double decker Penn station! |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:12:28 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 20 22:51:13 2013. Nah, it wouldn't be a stubby little El if it went to Jerusalem! |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 21 16:48:48 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Tue May 21 14:45:43 2013. Negatory on that. That wipes out yet another Beaux-Arts building in the same vicinity.If Farley was to be demolished for a new MSG, the first thing to do is to remove the granite facade and reuse it for building of a new Penn on the site of the old Penn. Of course the wording about mail carriers delivering the mail through rain, snow etc, would have to be removed somehow. Face it, Penn Sta. will always be a glorified subway station. Bill Newkirk/b> |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 21 17:06:14 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:12:28 2013. But the only way to get it over there remains the same ... TEAR IT DOWN! :) |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 17:09:35 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Joe V on Tue May 21 09:46:51 2013. Exactly:I remember that as well in the 1980s and how that didn't help with GCT. If the old Penn Station had remained, even without 9/11, a lot of it would have been havens for the homeless and the like, much like parts of it (especially the old parts that did survive) during the 1970s and '80s. They likely would have by the '90s gutted Penn Station as it was known anyway and did a major re-build of the old station as has actually has been done twice since the redone station opened in 1967. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 17:17:41 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by JBar387 on Tue May 21 03:16:12 2013. That includes revenue from MSG Networks. The arena itself likely would take longer to recoup the money.That said, nothing lasts forever, and MSG, already the oldest active arena in use in the NHL and will become the oldest in the NBA once the Warriors move to a new building in San Francisco will at some point need to have a new version built. 15-20 years from now would be about right, and 9th-10th Avenues from 28th-30th Streets, especially with Moynahan Station would be close enough to allow people to get to that potential incarnation of MSG than can be built to seat 35,000 in an attempt to land the Final Four and possibly land (or by then, keep) the ACC Tournament (which is already looking to eventually move to NYC). |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue May 21 17:22:19 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Olog-hai on Mon May 20 12:04:33 2013. it was built centuries after the Temple was destroyed why do people complain about it so much? |
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Posted by J Trainloco on Tue May 21 18:01:42 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by JBar387 on Tue May 21 03:16:12 2013. My opinion is that the 5 year figure is funny money. When you undertake a capital project, you account for how much money the capital project itself will generate. That 5 year payoff period quoted in some articles accounts for MSG revenue from ANY source. But those other revenue sources (primarily from their TV business) would have been in place regardless of whether or not they did the renovation. Therefore, when it comes to recouping the cost of the $980 million renovation, you can really only account for the additional revenue generated by the renovation. Some of the articles have pegged that payoff period as more like 40 years.At any rate, I can't think of any reason why MSG would agree to give up a parcel of land that they own and just sunk $1B into of their own money into rennovating for a piece of land that will probably have poorer accessibility. On top of that, let's not forget that they did this renovation with their own money. In an age of sports teams clamoring for public financing for arenas and stadiums, MSG did this without any taxpayer cash, and I think that's worth something. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue May 21 19:41:35 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue May 21 17:09:35 2013. There would have been renovations and the like, but with the recent attention to architectural quality and homages to the past, we could have seen a Penn Station very reminiscent of what it was like in its heydey, yet still have improvements which would have dealt with wasted and unoccupied space. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 20:44:09 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by AlM on Mon May 20 16:07:18 2013. Really? You think that piece of shit post doesn't show his severe derangement? |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 21 20:47:40 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by AlM on Mon May 20 16:44:54 2013. That's a shame. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by J Trainloco on Tue May 21 21:58:14 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:06:45 2013. How would clearing the street level MSG structure result in a double deck Penn Station? |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed May 22 03:30:02 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by J Trainloco on Tue May 21 18:01:42 2013. i agree.chud1 |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 22 03:53:05 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:05:01 2013. Should they? |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed May 22 04:11:41 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Sun May 19 21:54:55 2013. I think the deal now is that MSG keeps the tax revenue from events to pay for renovations.Venues Today and some WWE sources have talked about this. Usually state gets about 5.5% and the City gets about 3% So once again the tax payer is paying for renovations. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed May 22 07:39:15 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by Grand concourse on Tue May 21 09:26:04 2013. A mall above the train station would be awesome. I can picture it:Top floors - offices Floor 3 - food court Floors 4-6 - shops Floor 0-2 - train station with grand HIGH ceiling. |
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Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Wed May 22 09:25:47 2013, in response to Re: Move MSG for Penn Station's Sake, posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue May 21 16:05:01 2013. Huh? Why? |
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