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| Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? (1223662) | |
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| (1223664) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 12:39:34 2013, in response to Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by seabeachexpress on Mon May 20 12:36:59 2013. so when ? did SRS run test on that track ?? its only done once or twice a year |
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| (1223667) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Mon May 20 12:45:02 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 12:39:34 2013. I thought more than that due to the high traffic . I guess we will wait for the NTSB report and go from there. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1223669) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 20 12:52:31 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 12:39:34 2013. However, said rail has had to carry the burden of all westbound trains of all kinds for a while now. Wouldn't such stress increase the likelyhood of a fracture?That's a lot of trains. |
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| (1223693) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 14:25:42 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 20 12:52:31 2013. The rail that failed was on Eastbound track (4) |
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| (1223741) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 16:41:02 2013, in response to Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by seabeachexpress on Mon May 20 12:36:59 2013. Initial indications point to the failure at a rail joint. Rail joints cannot be inspected via normal ultrasonic methods.Read here for more on this accident. If the link doesn't work cut and paste it. http://has-been.dyndns.org:8080/wp2/index.php/?p=7351 Here's his proposed solution. We can surmise that in junk yard behind the NTSB’s Materials Lab at Ashburn VA there is a big pile of old joint bars. Dozens of memorable derailments have been attributed to broken joint bars. Vehicle-borne induction and ultrasonic rail flaw detection techniques cannot detect cracks in joint bars. Ditto for track circuits. Like PTC, the rail [support] industry claims that it is developing a technological solution, in this case video image analysis for detection of fractures in joint bars without the necessity of slow, laborsome on-the-ground visual inspection. Effective visual inspection is problematic in winter weather. FRA rules 49 CFR 213.233 (track inspections) and .351 (rail joints) are wishy-washy. One NTSB report concludes “At the time of accident, [the track inspector] was responsible for inspecting and maintaining 928 rail joints [weekly].” (That’s 23.2 joints per hour based on a 40-hour week.) The fix? Hire some young, eager, expendable summer interns to do a joint bar inspection blitz. Another solution: offer employees a $25000 bounty for each cracked joint bar they discover. Fractured joint bars aren’t common, nor can they be easily faked or doctored. The prospect of earning an additional years’ pay after finding 3-4 defective joint bars means that everybody, particularly signal maintainers, will be on their knees looking closely at every rail joint everyday. The unpleasant duty of roll-by inspections on cold, rainy nights now becomes a treasure hunt. For large Class 1’s, paying-off on 100 bad joint bars per year at $25K each is peanuts compared to the cost of a partially (or questionably) effective defect detection technology. |
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| (1223756) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by nasadowsk on Mon May 20 17:55:24 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 16:41:02 2013. Mike, your links to that address seem broken for some reason. Not sure why, but they are... |
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| (1223757) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 20 18:01:38 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 14:25:42 2013. Still, 2 tracks mean everything in one direction travels on a single track. Why are they even taking 2 at a time out of service. Further west on the line, I recall only one at a time for overpass replacement. |
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| (1223760) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:09:40 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by nasadowsk on Mon May 20 17:55:24 2013. The site doesn't like inbound linking. You have to cut and paste. If the specific like doesn't work try the general site link here. Right now its the lead story.http://has-been.dyndns.org:8080/wp2/index.php |
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| (1223761) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:11:09 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by nasadowsk on Mon May 20 17:55:24 2013. Or the server got taken off line. I think its run on a home system. |
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| (1223763) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Mon May 20 18:14:15 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:09:40 2013. Also broken. i copied/pasted- Still no joy. |
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| (1223765) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:19:49 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 16:41:02 2013. Here is the possible point of derailment.
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| (1223766) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:20:26 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by RockParkMan on Mon May 20 18:14:15 2013. Yeah sorry, it might come back up later. |
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| (1223774) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Mon May 20 18:52:56 2013, in response to Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by seabeachexpress on Mon May 20 12:36:59 2013. there was a track geometry car heading in that direction last night.I don`t know which RR it belonged to. |
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| (1223778) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 20 19:19:41 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 16:41:02 2013. No railroad is going to offer a reward to find damaged joint bars. If I want to split the reward as a PM signal maintainer with the midnight repairman, out of the marsh comes a new joint bar. What surprised me is they still used spikes in that photo and rail is not welded. How much more would it cost to affix ultrasound to the TG and Sperry cars for tie plate and joint bars? They will always need to inspect joints at signal block and interlocking IJs after welding is done |
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| (1223782) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon May 20 19:31:06 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 16:41:02 2013. Really? I`m sure Sperry has run into the joint bar/ rail joint issue before, being that they do jointed rail and CWR inspections throughout the country. If not Ultrasonic perhaps Eddy Current is used in these types of situations. |
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| (1223790) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Bill West on Mon May 20 20:09:43 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:20:26 2013. I just got in. A very interesting blog, he raises substantial questions.As an aside, if you scroll down to May 6 he has a hairy video from VIA 1991. Thanks for the link Mike. Bill |
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| (1223794) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 20:20:57 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 20 19:19:41 2013. That's not my solution, but if a natural crack is hard to forge and must be left in place for verification it could work. |
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| (1223796) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 20:33:06 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by tunnelrat on Mon May 20 18:52:56 2013. a Geometry car does NOT detect internal rail fractures, only Sperry car does.The Car heading up was LIRR TC-82 and as you said a Geometry car |
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| (1223809) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon May 20 21:34:28 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 20:20:57 2013. If a natural crack is seen, then it is supposed to be radioed and reported. It is a conflict of interest at the minimum. I recall a bus maintainer who was killed allegedly knifing a front airbag in order to create overtime many years ago. I'm sure no signal or track man wants to go to sleep KNOWING he failed to report something that was visible even though he will get woke by MTA and NTSB up in the middle of the night for something he couldn't have seen. If it was reported then its out of his hands for his superiors to explain. Another reason why they shouldn't be using bar coding for inspections. |
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| (1223866) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:10:52 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon May 20 18:01:38 2013. Why are they even taking 2 at a time out of service. Further west on the line, I recall only one at a time for overpass replacement.That is why Tracks 3 and 1 at the location of the derailment are out of service, both for catenary replacement and bridge replacement at that location. Taking the two out at a time expedites the project without having to keep things out longer by going one track at a time, plus the extra track out give the contractors and on site workers a little bit of extra place to bring in work equipment. |
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| (1223867) | |
PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:19:38 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 20:33:06 2013. Yesterday, as I arrived for work, sitting on the fuel pad in Stamford Yard, LIRR TC-82 Engineering Inspection VehicleShot quick from my truck with my Android Smartphone, so forgive the non-DSLR quality!!   I really am on a roll with catching other than MNR equipment in Stamford Yard, you gotta admit!! :-D Thanks for viewing!! :-) |
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| (1223872) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 07:48:44 2013, in response to PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:19:38 2013. Can't see a thing. TinyPic does not seem to like us.ROAR |
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| (1223874) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:56:19 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 07:48:44 2013. I think you better check your computer!! Comes up fine on mine!!! |
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Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 MOON ROVER@ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue May 21 08:09:06 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:56:19 2013. Isn't the nickname of that car Moon Rover? |
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| (1223877) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 MOON ROVER@ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 08:55:41 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 MOON ROVER@ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Tue May 21 08:09:06 2013. I dunno.....is it????? :-/ |
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| (1223880) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 09:34:22 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 07:48:44 2013. Try Firefox if you have it. I have IE and Firefox and it shows up perfectly on my computer. |
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| (1223881) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue May 21 09:39:53 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:56:19 2013. OK, NOW i sea it. All saw I before was links that I clicked on and did nothing good. This time the loaded right in.LIONS and patience are not syanonimous. |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 21 11:04:45 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:10:52 2013. But it's risky, and that's a very busy and vital for Amtrak. 3 tracks is safer. |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 21 11:09:40 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 21 11:04:45 2013. If they had only taken 1 track out of service, do you think they could be operating limited service through that location right now?I doubt it. I think they need all the space they have for equipment. So if they had done the work one track at a time the bridge work would probably have cost twice as much (while you're in there, it's as easy to replace 2 tracks worth of bridge as one) and there wouldn't have been any quicker restoration of partial service. |
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| (1223899) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue May 21 11:12:30 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:10:52 2013. But it's risky, and that's a very busy section of track and vital for Amtrak. 3 tracks is safer. |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue May 21 12:22:54 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by AlM on Tue May 21 11:09:40 2013. It's likely a single span that held two tracks (like most of them) making it difficult if not impossible to do it one track at a time. |
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| (1223910) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue May 21 13:10:01 2013, in response to PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:19:38 2013. A+ on these pictures Train Man Paul.chud1 |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue May 21 13:27:54 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 12:39:34 2013. Does anyone know the frequency that NYCT checks tracks? Those are some heavily used rails...Doe they have different frequencies for outside track versus tunnels? Maybe even more frequently in areas near the beach, where the air is salty? |
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| (1223916) | |
Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue May 21 13:34:37 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon May 20 20:33:06 2013. As a side question, is it not possible to build a combined TG and Rail Service car? Or is that just too much equipment to pack into a single vehicle...? |
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| (1223918) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue May 21 13:39:42 2013, in response to PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:19:38 2013. Great pics!!! Thank you. |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 21 13:54:40 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by MainR3664 on Tue May 21 13:34:37 2013. could yes, but both functions could not be used at same time.one is done at very slow speed with frequent back up moves , while other is done at constant higher speed |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jeff H. on Tue May 21 21:43:56 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon May 20 18:19:49 2013. Wow, jointed rail? I thought all 4 tracks were CWR. |
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| (1224000) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 22:53:52 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by MainR3664 on Tue May 21 13:39:42 2013. You're quite welcome!!! And thank you as well!! :-) |
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| (1224002) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 22:54:50 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by chud1 on Tue May 21 13:10:01 2013. Thank you, sir!! :-) |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed May 22 01:14:20 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jeff H. on Tue May 21 21:43:56 2013. They are, but all CWR equipped main lines have a few traditional joint spread about. Insulated joints at track circuit boundaries are one common example. When rail is patched in to replace a defect a bolted joint can be used until a permanent weld is made or new CWR is laid. |
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| (1224016) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed May 22 02:13:22 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 22:54:50 2013. Cool pics!!! Lol at TC82 lost..... |
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| (1224017) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Koi-PublicTransitIsMyLifeline on Wed May 22 02:17:40 2013, in response to PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 07:19:38 2013. Those pics are pretty good coming from your smartphone. I would have thought they were taken with a regular camera if you hadn't mentioned they were taken with your smartphone.Koi |
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| (1224025) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed May 22 03:41:32 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 22:54:50 2013. ur welcome Train Man Paul.chud1 |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed May 22 04:40:49 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Jeff H. on Tue May 21 21:43:56 2013. even with CWR there are joints, signal joints, expansion joints etc etc, |
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| (1224032) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed May 22 06:50:09 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by R 36 ML 9542 on Wed May 22 02:13:22 2013. She even stumbled along the way while she was lost!! :-D But she survived :-) |
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Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed May 22 06:51:06 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Koi-PublicTransitIsMyLifeline on Wed May 22 02:17:40 2013. Thanks, bro!! :-)The Pantech Breakout Android phone has a 5 MP camera, but for those MPs, the sharpness is awesome. |
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| (1224037) | |
Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 22 06:56:57 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Tue May 21 22:53:52 2013. For some reason, my attention lately has turned to work equipment, on MNRR, LIRR, NYCT/SIR... |
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Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 22 06:59:58 2013, in response to Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue May 21 13:54:40 2013. Thanks. Of course, that leads to my next question- which is at constant high speed, and which involves all the backing up?On NYCT, I've seen the SRS and the TG cars...moving at more or less normal speed, so I guess that would mean the one that actually operates at slow speed and backs up, etc. was just passing through... |
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Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail? |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Wed May 22 07:24:30 2013, in response to Re: PHOTOS: LIRR TC 82 @ Stamford Yard...Re: Could the Sperry Car detect this broken rail?, posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 22 06:56:57 2013. Anything rail gets my attention and my camera's attention!! :-) |
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