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| R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 (1207134) | |
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| (1207136) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Feb 26 14:45:35 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. That was part of the Bicentennial Celebration & yes the R46 did go to Metropolitian &even Canarsie. It was done with special assistance & arrangements between the TA and ERA. The problem is that in certain places on the Eastern Division you cannot have another train pass in the opposite direction where the R46 is moving / going around curves. I was on that trip, it was one of the great ones. |
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| (1207137) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:56:26 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Feb 26 14:45:35 2013. We all would love to see more photos of that 1976 trip. Where else did the R46s venture that day? |
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| (1207150) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by renee gil on Tue Feb 26 16:24:05 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. A slightly different version of this photo was posted on subtalk many years ago.Here it is: 
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| (1207158) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mr Railfan on Tue Feb 26 16:56:19 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. Does anyone have any pictures of the R46s traveling on the Canarsie line? That must have been a hell of a sight to see. |
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| (1207170) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by B53RICH on Tue Feb 26 17:36:36 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by renee gil on Tue Feb 26 16:24:05 2013. Also included in the photo are those old TA fishbowls stored under the tracks. |
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| (1207171) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 17:40:39 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. That must be places like the connection at Myrtle/Bwy and the turn at Crescent st and coming into Alabama ave. I can't think of any other turns on the Eastern div. The Canarsie has none that I can think of. |
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| (1207172) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue Feb 26 17:43:40 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 17:40:39 2013. Snediker? |
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| (1207188) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 19:11:50 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by kew gardens teleport on Tue Feb 26 17:43:40 2013. That is a possibility with the old north bound track making the sharp right S turn. The 75 foot could stick it's ass out enough. |
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| (1207194) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Feb 26 19:38:14 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. I've seen a R46 pass through the Myrtle/Bway station manhattan bound and a 44 at ENY during the 70's. |
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| (1207233) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by JBar387 on Wed Feb 27 02:14:48 2013, in response to R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Tue Feb 26 14:34:28 2013. I was trying to win a ebay auction for that pic. Got outbided. But I saved the pic for example use! |
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| (1207240) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 27 02:57:42 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 19:11:50 2013. True, but there is no conflict with any train coming in the opposite direction. |
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| (1207241) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 03:14:43 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Feb 26 14:45:35 2013. The problem is that in certain places on the Eastern Division you cannot have another train pass in the opposite direction where the R46 is moving / going around curves. I was on that trip, it was one of the great ones.Now I'm thinking of places on the Eastern Division where this is the case. M line just north of Myrtle/Bwy gotta be one. Marcy Ave. Entire lenghts of Williamsburg Bridge? |
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| (1207250) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Feb 27 06:36:30 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 03:14:43 2013. Crescent Street |
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| (1207251) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 06:47:13 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 03:14:43 2013. The bridge itself is straight, so there is no risk of sideswipes on the bridge. Getting to it is the problem, on the stretch between Marcy Ave. and the bridge. |
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| (1207252) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 06:49:33 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Feb 27 06:36:30 2013. what about it? I have not been by there lately so I'm trying to remember.the center excess hit nearby structures? like the stairs to the street? Or the building to the right going to Manhattan? |
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| (1207253) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 06:52:33 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 06:47:13 2013. But can an R-46 cross at same time as another train?On the bridge itself it could be risky. Also, as you enter Essex it's curvy. Train could excess the wall or train leaving Essex Brooklyn-bound. |
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| (1207273) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:12:11 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by R36 #9346 on Wed Feb 27 06:36:30 2013. Crescent StreetOne is left to wonder what they were thinking when they built that hairpin turn at Crescent Street. It was so tight that it was tough on the BU's not to mention how the Standards managed to get through it. Its been slowing up traffic on the Jamaica Line for over a hundred years now. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1207278) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Nostalgia on Wed Feb 27 09:07:07 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Feb 26 14:45:35 2013. Mister D-Type, for years Rail-Fanners have been searching for more photos from that trip. You were on it so can you tell us who else was on the trip? Who else took photos on that trip? There must be more photos from this trip. This is of utmost importance. It rivals even 76 Street. |
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| (1207280) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by MorningsideHeightsM100 on Wed Feb 27 09:42:35 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:12:11 2013. And it'll take another hundred for TPTB to straighten it... |
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| (1207281) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Feb 27 09:50:21 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Nostalgia on Wed Feb 27 09:07:07 2013. A good many people were on that trip, a lot of the then older members of the ERA whose names escape me as it's hard to remember, but a few names that come to mind include the Late Alan Bromberger & Steve Zabel, along with Glenn Smith, Hal Smith, Doug Grojathan, Jim Durnney, Eric O, John Albanese, Ed Mckernan, Don Harold, Hugh Dunne, Bruce Lane and others. |
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| (1207292) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:17:14 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by JBar387 on Wed Feb 27 02:14:48 2013. Who was trying to sell it? Do you remember if any other photos from that fantrip were for sale? |
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| (1207294) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:23:50 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Nostalgia on Wed Feb 27 09:07:07 2013. Photos of that 7/4/76 trip are among the 'holy grail' items for railfans. It's my understanding that such a trip with 75' cars is no longer possible, even with special arrangements, due to physical changes to the system in the years since 1976. |
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| (1207295) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:24:41 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:17:14 2013. BTW - Glad you did save it! |
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| (1207296) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Wed Feb 27 11:48:54 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Feb 27 09:50:21 2013. Does anyone know what happened to Hal Smith's photographs collection after he passed away several years ago ? I was a friend of his he lived in my apartment house with his parents in the early 60's, his photo collection was extensive. Karl |
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| (1207308) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by JBar387 on Wed Feb 27 12:55:17 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:17:14 2013. No, I didn't see any others also! |
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| (1207315) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Feb 27 13:52:19 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Wed Feb 27 11:48:54 2013. You might check with the ERA, Chairman, he might be able to shed some light on the issue. |
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| (1207316) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Feb 27 13:53:34 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 06:52:33 2013. On occasion weren't stray R68 D trains or B trains turned at Essex? |
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| (1207329) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 14:38:56 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Feb 27 13:53:34 2013. never heard of such a thing. how would that move work? the relay would have to go over the Bridge I think.I know that a Manhattan-bound train leaving Court took a wrong lineup into Broad St and the door saddles and car body damaged the curved platform. |
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| (1207330) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Feb 27 14:40:15 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 14:38:56 2013. Why are you participating in the Fresh Pond Road thread? You hate trains. |
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| (1207333) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Wed Feb 27 15:05:58 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by cortelyounext on Wed Feb 27 14:40:15 2013. Answer the question, Luch. |
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| (1207337) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 27 15:19:14 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:12:11 2013. If you look at the structure, it was actually modified when the steels were introduced. The old Manhattan bound curve was even tighter. |
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| (1207338) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Feb 27 15:22:54 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dan on Wed Feb 27 11:23:50 2013. What physical changes. The only changes I am aware of are the connection to the Archer Av subway which isn't anywhere near there and new signaling in the Eastern Division. |
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| (1207340) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 15:27:12 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Avid Reader on Wed Feb 27 13:53:34 2013. Southbound D trains were sometimes rerouted between Broadway-Lafayette and DeKalb Ave. by running to Essex St., then reversing direction and running down Nassau St. and through the Montague St. tunnel. It was done northbound too, but more rarely, and I don't think it was ever done with B trains, which were cancelled or sent to 57 St.-7 Av. when this occurred. It could only be done in one direction at a time (either northbound or southbound), I'm not sure what they did in the opposite direction. Probably only one track on the Manhattan Bridge was closed at a time, and trains going the other way ran normally. |
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| (1207341) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 15:27:44 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Feb 27 06:52:33 2013. The cars are the same maximum width as the R160, so no. The problem is the curves. The car is 54' over truck centers, vs the R160, which is 44'. These are the only parts that ALWAYS stay over the tracks. The 75' cars overhang the truck centers by over 10'4", on a curve you need to make sure you have a clear arc of at least 10'6" (to allow for suspension/bearing travel) from the track center on any curve to make sure your end swing won't hit anything. BNSF engineering requires 11' clearance from track centers on industrial trackage. |
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| (1207366) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Feb 27 17:33:23 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:12:11 2013. Probably to follow the streets and avoid the requirements for easements or property acquisition.--Mark |
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| (1207368) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Feb 27 17:35:27 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 15:27:12 2013. I experienced this reroute many times commuting to NYU in the early 1980s from Brooklyn. Trains went about 12 car lengths onto the bridge before reversing direction.--Mark |
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| (1207369) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Snarf368 on Wed Feb 27 17:44:36 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 15:27:12 2013. What impact did this have to J/M service at the time?Southbound D trains were sometimes rerouted between Broadway-Lafayette and DeKalb Ave. by running to Essex St., then reversing direction and running down Nassau St. and through the Montague St. tunnel. It was done northbound too, but more rarely, and I don't think it was ever done with B trains, which were cancelled or sent to 57 St.-7 Av. when this occurred. It could only be done in one direction at a time (either northbound or southbound), I'm not sure what they did in the opposite direction. Probably only one track on the Manhattan Bridge was closed at a time, and trains going the other way ran normally. |
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| (1207415) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 23:20:50 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Feb 27 17:35:27 2013. Hmm. That is what they would have to do when this G.O. ran on the southbound D, so I am thinking that I was wrong when I said it was most often done southbound. I think now it was more often done northbound, since going that way the trains could simply reverse at Essex St. (on the middle track) without having to pull onto the bridge. |
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| (1207423) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Feb 28 00:56:27 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Snarf368 on Wed Feb 27 17:44:36 2013. This happened only late at night when traffic was light, as I recall. |
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| (1207433) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Feb 28 04:24:12 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by VictorM on Thu Feb 28 00:56:27 2013. I happened on Saturdays and Sundays during the day as well. |
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| (1207469) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Feb 28 10:32:27 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Feb 27 13:52:19 2013. Thank you I'll do that. Karl |
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| (1207497) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 28 14:16:56 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Dyre Dan on Wed Feb 27 15:27:12 2013. Southbound D trains were sometimes rerouted between Broadway-Lafayette and DeKalb Ave. by running to Essex St., then reversing direction and running down Nassau St. and through the Montague St. tunnel. It was done northbound too, but more rarely, and I don't think it was ever done with B trains, which were cancelled or sent to 57 St.-7 Av. when this occurred. It could only be done in one direction at a time (either northbound or southbound), I'm not sure what they did in the opposite direction. Probably only one track on the Manhattan Bridge was closed at a time, and trains going the other way ran normally.Yes, I rode this scenic route when the Manny B was closed. I rode R-44's to Essex St when they were on the (D). That's as far as we went, doors did not open. We just changed ends and completed the route ! Bill Newkirk |
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| (1207510) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 28 16:47:35 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by randyo on Thu Feb 28 04:24:12 2013. it also happened during middays..i was on one of those crazy D trains made up of R32'S. |
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| (1207512) | |
Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976 |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Feb 28 17:35:31 2013, in response to Re: R46 at Fresh Pond Road - 1976, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 28 16:47:35 2013. That's right ... it also happened weekdays between 10am and 3pm, roughly.--Mark |
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