Home · Maps · About

Home > SubChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(1183187)

view threaded

NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d


SOURCE : PDF page 15; from October 2012 CPOC meeting


Post a New Response

(1183224)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 11:12:45 2012, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
So, we may see Staten Island Railway replacement cars in the order as well an expanded fleet when SAS opens?.

Looks like it will be 60 ft car order purchase.

Post a New Response

(1183243)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Outside the Box on Sat Oct 27 13:13:20 2012, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Have they considered modernizing R46? The stainless steel frame doesn't corrode like LAHT steel. Do they have structural issues? Are the spot welds popping loose?

Post a New Response

(Sponsored)

iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It

(1183263)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by North-Easten T/O on Sat Oct 27 15:47:27 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 11:12:45 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes from now on only 60ft'er are on order.

Post a New Response

(1183285)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by CSWKings8847 on Sat Oct 27 18:11:46 2012, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
So since the R46 are 75-footers (each). My math says the possible amount could be 940 or more cars. I know it's too early but what do you think?

Post a New Response

(1183298)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 19:09:22 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by CSWKings8847 on Sat Oct 27 18:11:46 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Its about 943 cars, just for the replacement of R-46 cars

Post a New Response

(1183302)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by R30A on Sat Oct 27 19:48:51 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 11:12:45 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I think the quantity of expansion cars (84) implies that they would be 75 footers, as it is not divisible by 5.

I suppose they could make 4 car sets of 60 footers, but with 260 cars in the R179 order configured like that, the entire eastern division, and presumably the C will all get 4 car sets of New Tech cars, I can't see where any other of such cars can go.

Post a New Response

(1183316)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 21:34:50 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by R30A on Sat Oct 27 19:48:51 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
The C/J/Z lines will share the larger portion of the R179 car fleet..then the A will either get the remainder[[4 ten car trains]..or the G Crosstown will..running them in 5 car trains..

The R211 car order is going to the E/F lines,due to the CBTC tech being placed on the Queens Blvd subway line between Jamaica and Lexington Avenue..With the A getting most of the 160's there..the rest going to the R line[replacing its 46s]..

Or the A will receive 400 OF the new cars first..with the remainder going to the E/F lines..keeping SOME OF THE 160s already there..pushing the rest into R service.


The 160'S in N/Q service will be pulled..replaced with the R68/68a..DUE TO THE WHINERS in Astoria..the cars placed in B/D service.

Post a New Response

(1183320)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Oct 27 21:56:03 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 21:34:50 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Lol at the Astoria comment !

Post a New Response

(1183329)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Oct 27 22:38:07 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 11:12:45 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Looks like it will be 60 ft car order purchase.

The MTA just loves throwing money away on increased operating costs... in addition to 75'ers being safer (more people / space per car), more comfortable (greater distance between trucks), more space efficient (2 less 'between car' areas per train), they are most importantly cheaper on maintenance (2 less cars per train for same space).

And they will take this increased cost out on customers by reducing weekend / midday frequencies and removing more seats to increase standing space. And no one will admit the fuckup.

Post a New Response

(1183339)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 23:39:49 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Oct 27 22:38:07 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
yeah..but the long car drawbacks is not worth the reinvestment.

True,while there are less cars to maintained...the 10 car 60ft trains offer more doors..carry more passengers..are able to traverse every line in the B Division...where as the 75ft cars cannot.


Post a New Response

(1183346)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 28 01:29:27 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 23:39:49 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Except that cars perma-locked into either 4 or 5 car sets are just as restricted with respect to Eastern Division lines.

Post a New Response

(1183349)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by WillD on Sun Oct 28 02:17:06 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 23:39:49 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Why can't 75 foot cars be purchased with five doors per car?

As to the capacity, the 60 foot cars only hold an additional 50 passengers per 600' train, and it's likely that by going to an all-Longitudinal seating arrangement a 75 foot car would meet or exceed that figure.

Post a New Response

(1183350)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Wallyhorse on Sun Oct 28 02:28:39 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 21:34:50 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Can't help but think of Don Ho when you bring up whiners:

"Tiny Bubbles.....in the WHINE!!"

Post a New Response

(1183356)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 05:19:41 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 28 01:29:27 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
true..the CURRENT designs[done so for so called "safety enhancements"],instead of married pairs,has limited the NT cars AS CONFIGURED..to two different types..

Be that as it may..with the East having its own NT cars,with more coming due to the R179 order..isn't as isolated as it once was..[The M line is proof of that] since its trains CAN travel to other lines of the system..but 10 cars trains cant travel to it in passenger service.

The 75ft cars..well thats another headache on it own..in order for those trains to operate over the eastern lines in regular passenger service..structural rehab work will need to be done along the the elevated.

Post a New Response

(1183357)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 05:26:11 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by WillD on Sun Oct 28 02:17:06 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Nothing stopping them from designing such a rail car..


Post a New Response

(1183380)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Oct 28 10:30:19 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 28 01:29:27 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Exactly. The MTA still can't operate every B-Division car on every part of the B-Division because 5-car sets are and will continue to be restricted from the Eastern Division lines. So much the flexibility of 60-foot cars.

If they went back 60-foot cars in married pairs, then that would be real flexibility.

Post a New Response

(1183381)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Oct 28 10:34:57 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 05:19:41 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
But those perma-linked 5-car sets can't easily be split into 4-car sets or pairs and sent to ENY if they ever face another car shoratage. Instead of a 75-foot vs 60-foot issue, it's now a 5-car vs 4-car issue with the East.

Married pairs would have solved that whole issue.

Post a New Response

(1183382)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by R211 on Sun Oct 28 10:38:04 2012, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm coming. And I'll be great.

Post a New Response

(1183384)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 28 10:45:51 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sat Oct 27 23:39:49 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
The benefits of 60' trains are greatly exaggerated:
1. Can run on the entire B division
-Trains made up of 2 sets of 5 linked 60'ers cannot... there is no difference in where a 2x5x60 set can go versus a 2x4x75 set.

2. More doors per train
-This can be equalized by either widening the doors (like the R142s) or adding another set of doors per car.

3. Carry more passengers
-This is outright false. It is impossible for a train with 2 extra "between car areas" to carry more passengers, as those are 5' sections that passengers may not occupy. A 600' train of 75' cars has 10 more feet of usable space than a 600' train of 60' cars.

4. Can move between cars (you didn't say it but it is a benefit of 60' cars)
-Due to the current rule and fine against doing so, your mobility is actually more restricted on a train of 60' cars. Each 75' car covers more platform space, so you are more easily able to move along the train by switching cars at stations. For example if you are following the law and want to get from the back of the train to the front, you will need 9 stations to accomplish this on a train of 60' cars, whereas you only need 7 on a train of 75'ers.

Post a New Response

(1183387)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 28 10:50:54 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Edwards! on Sun Oct 28 05:19:41 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
The 75ft cars..well thats another headache on it own..in order for those trains to operate over the eastern lines in regular passenger service..structural rehab work will need to be done along the the elevated.

We have enough R160s in 5 car sets that if such flexibility is desired, there are more than enough cars to cover it. We don't need to send every car in the fleet through the eastern division do we?

You have to think of the math here: replacing a 4x75' set with a 5x60' set is an increase of fleet size by 25%, for no increase in actual space... that's 25% more cars to maintain the current level of service. Why do they think this is a good idea?

Post a New Response

(1183520)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Handbrake on Sun Oct 28 19:36:32 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Oct 27 22:38:07 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
75 foot cars have maintenance headaches that 60 foot cars do not. The MTA board was considering 75 foot cars for the R211 order to reduce cost. A decision that many at DCE & at the car barns do not support.

Post a New Response

(1183691)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by merrick1 on Mon Oct 29 12:27:02 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 28 01:29:27 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
They aren't as restricted as 75 foot cars. You could remove one of the middle cars from a five car set and use it on the Eastern Division. You can't use a 75 foot car at all.

Post a New Response

(1183701)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 29 13:39:33 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by merrick1 on Mon Oct 29 12:27:02 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
But it's not a fast process. It's not like you can just uncouple one of the middle cars and tow it off to the side with a work diesel (like you could with the middle R44 and R46 cars, pre-GOH). The MTA is not going to bother reconfiguring 5-car sets of R160s and future B-Division car orders into 4-car sets unless they are planning to send those cars to the East long-term.

Post a New Response

(1183702)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 13:46:40 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Mon Oct 29 13:39:33 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
True, but it can still be done whereas it is IMPOSSIBLE to safely/conveniently operate 75 ft cars in the Eastern.

Post a New Response

(1183703)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 13:50:14 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 28 10:45:51 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
As for #4, while there is a legal prohibition against inter car movement, the fact is that it can be accomplished on a 60 ft car in cases of emergency without a passenger having to wait for a member of the train crew to get good and ready to unlock the end doors and risk possible injury.

Post a New Response

(1183715)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Outside the Box on Mon Oct 29 14:58:41 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 13:46:40 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
What about 5 door 67 foot cars?

Post a New Response

(1183771)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 29 17:12:30 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Outside the Box on Mon Oct 29 14:58:41 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
The 4 door 67foot cars are better for seating.
Upgrade the R/110B's to R160 and mix in.

Post a New Response

(1183775)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 17:16:15 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Avid Reader on Mon Oct 29 17:12:30 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
The problem with the R-110Bs is that although they are the same length as the original BMT steels, their truck placement was not the same so they couldn't be used in the Eastern either.

Post a New Response

(1183789)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 29 17:51:19 2012, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 13:46:40 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
We have a dire need to kill off 50 R42s... if that hasn't been enough of a reason to do exactly as you say to a few sets of R160s, this theoretical flexibility is completely useless.

Post a New Response

(1234547)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 13 11:10:26 2013, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Some extra details....
MTA will award the contract in 2015-ish

Expected delivery of the subway cars in 2017 to 2020.

(subject to change)

Post a New Response

(1234560)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Avid Reader on Sat Jul 13 13:10:30 2013, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 17:16:15 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Damn!

Post a New Response

(1234562)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 13 13:35:00 2013, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 11:12:45 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Who said it was 60'?

Post a New Response

(1234585)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Jul 13 16:25:43 2013, in response to NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by Gold_12TH on Sat Oct 27 03:18:17 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
That sounds like 1104 cars under the current forecast for fleet growth.

Post a New Response

(1234876)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Jul 14 20:53:29 2013, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 17:16:15 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
IIRC the trucks on the BMT standards were further back from the end bulkheads.

Post a New Response

(1234879)

view threaded

Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update)

Posted by randyo on Sun Jul 14 20:55:27 2013, in response to Re: NYCT's R-211 car order procurement ***New Info*** ; (10/2012 update), posted by randyo on Mon Oct 29 13:50:14 2012.

edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
GOOD POINT!

Post a New Response


[ Return to the Message Index ]