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(1169874)

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Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012

I rode at the rail-fan window of an R32 A yesterday from Jay St to Broadway Junction, the first time in a long while, and was dismayed to see the proliferation of two-shot timers on that stretch.

Just past Franklin Av there's a GT35 that seems to clear at 31mph. I can't understand the need for a timer there.

At Nostrand Av there's a sign posted at the end of the station reminding T/O's that the next station, Utica Av, is a FAST station, and to begin braking before entering. But that sign is not necessary because of the GT35 timers just outside Utica that seem to clear at 20mph, so the operators are forced to begin braking before entering, sign or no sign.

Then, after climbing the hill into Rockaway Av and passing through that station at barely 25mph, there are timers that slowly escort the train into Broadway Junction.

Meanwhile, over at the L, ATO runs the trains much faster than the timers there used to let the operators themselves, even around tight curves.

(1169875)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Aug 1 02:10:33 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

The timers on that run have really destroyed any advantages to taking the express... quite a shame really..

(1169888)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Aug 1 05:44:10 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

The timers there do have a purpose, as it's been explained to me.

(1169892)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Aug 1 07:22:33 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

Speaking of timers, how about the timers on the (A) express northbound at 23rd St ? The express always slows to almost catching up with the local.

I was told years ago there was a derailment at that location hence the timers.

Bill Newkirk

(1169896)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 1 07:33:44 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

Might it have anything to do with 12-9's?

(1169903)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Aug 1 08:07:39 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Dj Hammers on Wed Aug 1 02:10:33 2012.

NYCT taking the Rapid out of Rapid Transit

(1169918)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 12:13:00 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Aug 1 07:22:33 2012.

A trains have been doing that for at least 30 years, AFAIK. Strangely, the downtown A's don't slow down nearly as much at that switch.

(1169919)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed Aug 1 12:20:02 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Mitch45 on Wed Aug 1 07:33:44 2012.

Lol.

(1169920)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Aug 1 12:22:50 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

Meanwhile, over at the L, ATO runs the trains much faster than the timers there used to let the operators themselves, even around tight curves.

That's surprising. Usually ATO is used to slow trains down. In theory it shouldn't matter if the train is under automatic operation or not as the ATC should set the same speed limits for both human and non-human operators.

(1169921)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Joe Saitta on Wed Aug 1 13:08:24 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Aug 1 12:22:50 2012.

One of the purposes of ATO is to increase the number of trains per hour. This is now being done on the L line; perhaps management felt it could be done more safely and evenly this way rather than with human operators, who each operate their trains a little differently. It's going to be very interesting to see what happens with the next ATO projects on the 7 Line. The operating characteristics are much different than the L.

(1169922)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 1 13:33:01 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Joe Saitta on Wed Aug 1 13:08:24 2012.

They'll never get it like PATH; 40 TPH, no ATO, between WTC and Exchange Place.

(1169923)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed Aug 1 13:34:49 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Joe Saitta on Wed Aug 1 13:08:24 2012.

Incorrect. That was one of the purposes of CBTC. ATO is a separate issue.

(1169927)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by BigBusDriver on Wed Aug 1 14:06:39 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 12:13:00 2012.

I THINK that the reason is that the geometry of the diverging route (even though it's the normal line up for the switch) creates more force on the moveable section of the rail, at the junction of the switch, or the moveable points of the rail.
In other words, the train crosses the 'Y' and takes the right leg which creates more force at the forks.
Apparently, it's NOT a high speed cross over design.

(1169929)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Aug 1 14:26:33 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

If you think THAT's bad, the s/b BJ-Euclid stretch is completely timed, just about end to end. Not a chance in the world to get up any speed there, even on the Van Siclen-Shepherd-Euclid straightaway. Yes there are two curves present but northbound one of them isn't timed.

Even the Arnines fell victim to these timers last Sunday.

wayne
(1169931)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 1 14:48:16 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Aug 1 14:26:33 2012.

Back in the day, the curve onto Pennsylvania from Pitkin, then off Pennsylvania to Fulton used to be ran so fast, I often had to grab onto my seat and actually contemplated going off the rails. Especially in the slant R40 era ....

(1169932)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by frilter199 on Wed Aug 1 14:49:28 2012, in response to Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 02:02:51 2012.

I agree that the Fulton street express pretty much doesnt save any time off of the travel especially from Manhattan. The C train you may C at Utica is the same C train you will see at Euclid in many cases. If the timers don't get you slowed down enough, waiting at Euclid will.

(1169939)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Aug 1 15:15:57 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Aug 1 14:48:16 2012.

That's exactly how it felt last Sunday when #1802 led the pack. We had to be at or over 45mph.

wayne
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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 1 16:44:52 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by BigBusDriver on Wed Aug 1 14:06:39 2012.

That was pretty much how it was explained to me by a signal foreman years ago. I seems that in the early days of the IND, N/B trains going over that switch were damaging the housetops (devices that protect the switch points) which is why the GT signals were installed.

(1169968)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 18:02:33 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by randyo on Wed Aug 1 16:44:52 2012.

Interesting, thanks to both of you!

(1169971)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by BigBusDriver on Wed Aug 1 18:50:35 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 18:02:33 2012.

Quite welcome.....

(1169972)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 18:50:40 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by frilter199 on Wed Aug 1 14:49:28 2012.

Awesomely stupid for those riders beyond Euclid. Might as well get rid of express service altogether.

(1170014)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by gbs on Wed Aug 1 23:21:57 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Wed Aug 1 14:26:33 2012.

That s/b stretch has been completely timed since at least the first time I rode it in the late '60s - early '70s. I never understood why, especially given that the same stretch n/b was completely untimed, until the relatively-new timer before Broadway Junction.

(1170015)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by italianstallion on Wed Aug 1 23:54:44 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 1 18:50:40 2012.

I hate timers too, but the timetables do say the A saves 5 to 7 minutes over the C on the run from Euclid to Jay.

(1170018)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 2 00:45:09 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by italianstallion on Wed Aug 1 23:54:44 2012.

Which the northbound A promptly loses by waiting for the C at Euclid. Except for the A passengers going to BJ or Euclid, how does that help anybody? And without many of those timers, the A can probably save close to 10 min.

(1170054)

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Re: Timers galore on Fulton St

Posted by WayneJay on Thu Aug 2 10:10:13 2012, in response to Re: Timers galore on Fulton St, posted by Lou from Brooklyn on Wed Aug 1 08:07:39 2012.

I thought the rapid left many years ago.


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