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| Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers (1165062) | |
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Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012 An outbound Green Line train stalled between stations on Tuesday night. When the rescue train also lost power and didn't arrive fast enough for the linking of some passengers, they decided to take the situation into their own hands. I don't know whether WMATA's communication was adequate under the circumstances or not, but in my opinion, it doesn't matter once these passengers take matters into their own hands, put themselves and others at risk of injury or even death, and creating even bigger delays for thousands of other passengers. Clearly there are differing perspectives on what happened, but even if there are breakdowns, that doesn't give people the license to do whatever they feel like.Washington Post story here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/rebellion-on-the-green-line-as-passengers-flee-stalled-metro-train/2012/07/04/gJQA7rk7NW_story.html |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Jul 5 17:32:59 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. Someone had to be the leader. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by mike cruz on Thu Jul 5 18:14:37 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. What a bunch of bitches, 15 minutes? Firemen should carry water? |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jul 5 18:31:20 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. In stifling heat or bitter cold, the interior of an unventilated, unheated or un-air-conditioned railcar can quickly become dangerous in itself, particularly for those not in perfect health, especially the elderly. That is why rail operators MUST act expeditiously and efficiently to evacuate stranded passengers, and bungling such as the rescue train breaking down (maybe a diesel would be in order here) just doesn't cut it. Fifteen minutes doesn't seem bad unless you're one of the hostages.Maybe we should just go back to catenary so they don't have that excuse to keep passengers trapped indefinitely. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 00:28:53 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. If the passenger followed the instruction on the Emergency Evacuation Map they were in little danger of being hurt or injured. The tunnel between Collage Park and Princes Georgia's Plaza is a bored tunnel so getting out of the train onto tunnel walkway should have been of little difficulty as the walkway is less then a foot from the door thresholds on the train.One of the biggest complaints from passenger after incidents like this is the lack of communication from WMATA personal as to what going on and what being done and how long it will be to correct the problem or evacuate the train. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 6 01:16:23 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 00:28:53 2012. The failure to communicate is a major complaint at SF Muni , too. Back in '98 when the Meltdown occurred, riders walked the catwalks when LrVs were stalled in the tunnel. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:34:33 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 00:28:53 2012. I thought the train was stuck closer to College Park. In any event, IMHO, 15 minutes is NOT enough time for WMATA to organize a rescue effort under any circumstances, and the evacuation instructions say only to evacuate when instructed to by staff. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:36:23 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Jul 5 18:31:20 2012. There is plenty of reason to believe the operator was working as fast as she could to organize the rescue effort. If these people had just opened the emergency exits but not left through them, that would have been one thing. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jul 6 04:23:20 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:34:33 2012. If I was ever on a NYCTA train that had to be evacuated I would lead the way. Can't trust the TA. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 6 07:11:20 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. Wellll...this action was dangerous on the passengers' part. But when people are extremely hot (or cold) and communication from "up high" isn't good, they tend to take matters intot heir own hands.Several times, my collaeagues and I have evacuated our office even when asked not to do so, like when photocopiers started smoking or whatnot. Soemtimes in retrospect, it turns out to have been unnecessary, but after 9/11, when people died after following instructions to stay put, the lesson is that you have to use your own judgement. But jumping down to electrified tracks has its own risks... |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 6 07:14:42 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:36:23 2012. That's a thought...get some airflow... |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Train2104 on Fri Jul 6 07:30:31 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jul 6 04:23:20 2012. Doesn't WMATA have a different setup of third rail that's harder to cross safely as compared to NYCT or LIRR?And BART has 1000 VDC third rail...forget about self evacuation there. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by jabrams on Fri Jul 6 08:23:23 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Train2104 on Fri Jul 6 07:30:31 2012. 600 Volts or 1000 Volts, it's the current that kills you, and the fact that DC voltage/current prevents the muscles from retracting (as on AC voltage). |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 08:34:53 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:34:33 2012. I thought the train was stuck closer to College Park. In any event, IMHO, 15 minutes is NOT enough time for WMATA to organize a rescue effort under any circumstances, and the evacuation instructions say only to evacuate when instructed to by staff.If the situation is obvious and nobody in a position of authority is communicating what is happening and how long it might take to address the problem, self evacuation may be the best option. I am an impatient person by nature, had I been there I might have lead the way after other suggested self evacuation. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 08:47:37 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Train2104 on Fri Jul 6 07:30:31 2012. Doesn't WMATA have a different setup of third rail that's harder to cross safely as compared to NYCT or LIRR?The tunnel walkway is on the side of the tunnel where the lights are, the third rain is on the other side. In the case of the tunnel between Collage Park and Prince Georges's Plaza one would not have to step over the third rail to reach an emergency exit shaft or the Georges's Plaza station platform. One would have to crossover to the other side of the tunnel before reaching the tunnel portal if evacuating in the direction of the Collage Park platform. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Jul 6 10:06:02 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. According to UnSuckDCMetro, the story as presented by WMATA and the Washington Post is not quite accurate.According to @nataliedell, who was on the train, that isn't the case: I know that sometimes a power line is going to fail, or Metro riders are going to be stranded for a while, and that most people are working very hard to make sure that people get where they're going on time. Most of the riders on my car had a good attitude about the inconvenience on Tuesday, and only a few seemed irate. I looked at it as an adventure and a story I'd be able to tell my friends. The thing that burns me up is that the story that's being put out there isn't true, and that riders (who were charged at the Metro fare gates when we finally got out) are being blamed for part of the inconvenience. The Washington Post story implies that the rescue train was shut down deliberately because people started getting off the train and walking on the tracks, but that's not what actually happened. Rather, people started leaving the train and walking on the tracks AFTER the rescue train lost power and after the conductor told us we could leave. There was very poor communication from Metro - only three or so announcements in the 30 or so minutes that we waited on the train. I was tweeting and following #wmata on Twitter during that time, and the only way I learned that the rescue train had failed was from other folks on Twitter. Here's what I posted in the comments on today's Washington Post story - many other commentators on the train that day tell a similar story: I was on the train about mid-way back, and had to learn via Twitter rather than from the conductor, that the rescue train had also lost power. Lost power - not had it shut off. There was very, very little communication coming from the conductor at all during those hot 30 or so minutes. The conductor eventually told us that we could leave "if we wanted to" because the third rail had no power, not the opposite way around, as WMATA is claiming in the article. If you read the comments in the Washington Post article, they support this story. Plus, being stuck in a sealed rail-car with no air conditioning for half an hour in 90 degree weather is dangerous in and within itself. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by jasonnyc on Fri Jul 6 10:51:25 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 00:28:53 2012. This wasn't a tunnel situation. Passengers had to get down to the trackbed and walk the tracks, which are at grade level outside.There is video footage here: http://www.kplctv.com/story/18954144/subway-riders-walk-after-power-outage |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by jasonnyc on Fri Jul 6 10:52:59 2012, in response to Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Jul 6 10:06:02 2012. There's a TV story online that supports this too, along with footage of the people walking:http://www.kplctv.com/story/18954144/subway-riders-walk-after-power-outage People also seem to be forgetting about the MNR incidents of last summer, and just how dangerous it can be to be on a stranded train in heat like this. Didn't people self-evacuate there too? |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WayneJay on Fri Jul 6 11:56:59 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri Jul 6 01:34:33 2012. I agree that the passenger's decision to "self-evacuate" was impatient of them, but I have to admit that given the circumstances, I may have done the same. While all of us understand the dangers, something else takes over when folks are in a bad situation and the decision-makers aren't communicating with them. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Jul 6 12:52:28 2012, in response to Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Jul 6 10:06:02 2012. Ouch, thatI hope for the T/O's sake there is either something concrete to refute the passenger's claims, or something in the radio transmission logs to relieve him of some of the culpability for this incident. Unfortunately all the latter outcome does is spread the blame around a bit. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 13:46:37 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by jasonnyc on Fri Jul 6 10:51:25 2012. This wasn't a tunnel situation. Passengers had to get down to the trackbed and walk the tracks, which are at grade level outside.There is a loop step under the door leaf closet to cab end of the cars. Walking the trackbed outdoors in broad daylight is easier to walk then walking the trackbed in a tunnel. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 14:03:53 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WillD on Fri Jul 6 12:52:28 2012. To tell the passengers the third rail is off only compounds the problem because he more than likely does not know between what sectionalizing switches.There are signs at the at both end of the interlockings on both tracks that indicated how the segments of third rail fed and from where they are fed. I don't know of a system which relies upon the indication in the control center to verify third rail power being deactivated. They tell the guys in the field what their indication shows, then the guys in the field verify that the third rail is indeed deenergized. Unless WMATA has changed things, as I recall, the blue lights that mark the locations of the emergency trip station / phone box go out when the third rail is de-energized. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jul 6 14:23:00 2012, in response to Stalled WMATA Green Line Train "Self-Evacuated" by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jul 5 17:24:38 2012. I applaud these passengers for not being lemmings and allowing themselves to be slow cooked on a motionless train with no A/C and no way to open windows.It doesn't matter what *could have* happened, no one was hurt the way events played out. You can't say for certain that staying put was the safest option, considering the possibility of heat stroke. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 6 14:27:24 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 13:46:37 2012. The clear issues here are FIRST did WMATA central/the onboard T/O make timely announcements to the pax? Second, since apparently the rescue train "failed" how long after that until central communicated w/the pax? Third, what procedure was the T/O expected to follow in safely evacuating the train?The key thing in such events is regular and HONEST communication to the pax of the status. Yes, I get it that central needs to be talking to the T/O but SF Muni claims their central control can aty will do direct PA on Muni Metro trains in the Market St. Subway. Can WMATA? |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Jul 7 10:43:38 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by jasonnyc on Fri Jul 6 10:52:59 2012. They really didn't self-evacuate, but they damn near had full fledged riots on those trains. I am sad to say some of my coworkers didn't do the best jobs to keep the peace and order, especially properly let people know what was going on. That's why MNR has undertaken training classes during our rule book refreshers which speak about the importance of telling people what's going on, and properly dealing with serious incidents like that, evacuations, and customer communication. The lack of communication in the MNR incidents was the biggest sticking point with the passengers. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Jul 7 10:44:45 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Sat Jul 7 10:43:38 2012. JASONNYC......Here, we "affectionately" (or unaffectionately, whichever suits you best) call such self evacuations as "jail breaks"!! lol |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Jul 7 12:47:20 2012, in response to Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Jul 6 10:06:02 2012. How did they get off the train...reverse Chuchubob maneuver? |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sat Jul 7 14:04:02 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 14:03:53 2012. "Unless WMATA has changed things, as I recall, the blue lights that mark the locations of the emergency trip station / phone box go out when the third rail is de-energized."Lamp indication is not considered positive indication of a dead third rail. Lamps can tell you that the rail is "hot" if they are on but if the lamps are out it may just be that a lamp is "burned out" thereby "killing" the other 4 lamps in the series string. 5 120 volt lamps in series equal a 625=volt lamp array. These lamps when lighted POSITIVELY tell you the track is "hot" but tell you NOTHING either way if they're "out". |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:13:44 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jul 6 07:11:20 2012. Let's put things in perspective here.On 9/11, with hindsight, it makes sense to say that those who ignored the order to stay put in the second tower saved their lives by not following instructions. But at the time, it probably seemed like a reasonable instruction to make. In this case, these people were on a train that had lost power for about 15 minutes. They didn't really give WMATA a chance to relay communication from "up high" to them. Opening the doors for ventilation would have been one thing. Self evacuating after 15 minutes is dangerous and irresponsible. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:16:52 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 08:34:53 2012. At least you know how to walk along the ROW safely. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:20:38 2012, in response to Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Fri Jul 6 10:06:02 2012. It is nice to see more info coming out. People who expect the train operator to make announcements and to attempt troubleshooting the problem simultaneously are delusional. However, it now appears there were communication lapses and that by the time some riders chose to self-evacuate, it might have been justified. Once the rescue attempt failed, this train operator should have been told to evacuate the passengers herself or given better instructions from central control, it is now sounding as if that did not happen. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:22:35 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Jul 6 14:27:24 2012. WMATA Central Control can make annoucnements to stations. They cannot make annoucnements on individual trains. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:23:37 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Jul 6 14:23:00 2012. They could have opened the emergency exits for ventilation and not exited through them. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Jul 8 00:04:13 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Jul 7 14:04:02 2012. Lamp indication is not considered positive indication of a dead third rail. Lamps can tell you that the rail is "hot" if they are on but if the lamps are out it may just be that a lamp is "burned out" thereby "killing" the other 4 lamps in the series string. 5 120 volt lamps in series equal a 625=volt lamp array. These lamps when lighted POSITIVELY tell you the track is "hot" but tell you NOTHING either way if they're "out".WMATA does not have lights wire in series connected to the third rail to indicate if the third rail is energized. Anyhow, it turn out my previous remark was incorrect. The evacuation video clip of the Green line derailment clearly shows the blue light that marks the emergency trip station / phone box were on as passengers were walking from the derailed train to the emergency exit. 1:09 to 1:40 John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Jul 9 14:31:12 2012, in response to Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Jul 7 16:13:44 2012. But when people are abnormally hot/cold, they may not always act completely rationally. And there's also a question of mob mentaiity- maybe one or two really vocal people incited the self-evacuation. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jul 10 13:28:40 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 14:03:53 2012. Well, any kind of "ON" light can tell you that any system (3rd rail or anything else) is ON. But the light being off may also be because the light itself has burned out!!- so whatever it is could still be energized. Seems to me that to be 100% sure, you need some kind of direct test.. |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 10 14:35:47 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Jul 6 14:03:53 2012. Since no one else has posted it: |
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Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Jul 10 15:53:22 2012, in response to Re: Passenger Accounts Re: Stalled WMATA Green Line Train ''Self-Evacuated'' by Its Passengers, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Jul 10 14:35:47 2012. assuming this is a true account, the issues remain what is the standard protocol? and why insufficient communication to rider?Reminds me of a time an F stopped midway into 23rd SB. No PA, nothing. After maybe 15 min (this was 68 +/-), I walked out the storm door and stepped to the platform. |
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