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| ZPTO Subway Relays (1158784) | |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun May 27 22:39:18 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. ready for TSQ Shuttle just a half century late. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by chud1 on Mon May 28 04:38:17 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. thats amazing. it is to foam.chud1. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon May 28 07:44:05 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. The train probably runs automatically its entire route, the T/O providing supervision and door operations. It is after all, just a long horizontal elevator.BNSF has plans to run its entire railroad automatically, and even today does some switching operations from the ground rather than from the locomotive. ROAR |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 28 13:15:00 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. It seems likes such an obvious thing on a system with automation, but actually seeing it done is amazing. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon May 28 14:29:15 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. At 1:08 through 1:23, the T/O appears to look through the windows along the entire length of the passing train. Would she have aborted the relay if she had spotted any passengers? |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by gbs on Mon May 28 22:15:38 2012, in response to Re: ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon May 28 14:29:15 2012. The train appears to accelerate to full speed, instead of maintaining a steady rate, making it difficult to spot passengers still on board.When I've observed similar moves at, for instance, 71-Continental with an M or R, some platform personnel will often watch the moving train, but the t/o operating the train will maintain a very slow speed throughout. If a passenger is seen on the train, the spotter calls the t/o on the radio to stop the move until the passenger is let off. |
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| (1159024) | |
Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by WillD on Mon May 28 23:31:36 2012, in response to Re: ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Mon May 28 14:29:15 2012. That seems quite likely. I'd imagine the button she's pressing on the wall is little more than the 'Start' and 'Stop' buttons that would be found in the cab. At most there may be a deadman handle there to make sure she stays and observes the train as it exits the platform. I don't know exactly, but I'd think what control she has over the train is through the signal system rather than some remote control. If she should choose to command a stop then presumably the circuit the train is in will automatically go to emergency and the train would apply emergency brakes.I'd never considered it before, but the same sort of control panels at the end of a platform could be an excellent way for a ZPTO system to deal with unusual crowding conditions brought on by events. As I understand it, Nuremburg's very expensive RUBIN intrusion detection system for their automated U3 line was brought on by the local football club and their regular jamming of one of the stations before and after games. A much cheaper alternative for relatively rare events which place passengers in danger due to crowding would be to give an employee standing on the platform the ability to bring the incoming train to a stop should conditions warrant it. Or has anyone ridden something like Vancouver's Skytrain and observed something like this already in use? |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 29 00:50:16 2012, in response to Re: ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon May 28 07:44:05 2012. The train probably runs automatically its entire route, the T/O providing supervision and door operations.More than likely that is the case. More than half of the heavy rail systems in the US use some form of ATO to cut down on driver workload and I'd hazard a guess that the percentage is greater in Europe. BNSF has plans to run its entire railroad automatically, and even today does some switching operations from the ground rather than from the locomotive. I'm pretty sure that for now the FRA has shot down their OPTO and ZPTO plans. It is worth noting the Quebec North Shore and Laborador does run with a single engineer and no conductor. But they also have a fairly advanced positive train control system and a very predictable alignment with gentle grades. And as I mentioned in another response, I'd be surprised if the operator were controlling the train through a direct link. It's a bit of semantics since controlling it through the track circuit really is a remote control by other means, but I doubt she has direct control over the train itself. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by WillD on Tue May 29 01:04:52 2012, in response to Re: ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by gbs on Mon May 28 22:15:38 2012. In my experience, in Europe you'd find a lot of transit systems a lot less concerned if you wound up riding into a short relay. They'll make an effort at getting you off, but if you prove a bit recalcitrant then so long as you leave the T/O alone they're not going to delay service because you can't control yourself. I saw at least one drunk on the Berlin U-bahn refuse to wake up at Alexanderplatz on the U5. The T/O gave up, relayed his train, and the police helped the drunk off the train after it'd come around for eastbound service. Of course riding into a yard is another matter entirely, and they made sure the trains going OOS were completely fumigated, but that was one thing their full length, walk-through trains appear to help with immensely.And in the case of the video I posted, the worst he can do is yank the emergency brake or try to smash out a window. There isn't even a T/O walking the length of the train for a drunk to attack. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by numbersix on Tue May 29 19:18:22 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. If the automation fails, the train in Karlsplatz goes kerplotz. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by numbersix on Tue May 29 20:04:23 2012, in response to ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Sun May 27 22:29:28 2012. If the automation fails, the train in Karlsplatz goes kerplotz. |
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Re: ZPTO Subway Relays |
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Posted by gbs on Wed May 30 01:06:36 2012, in response to Re: ZPTO Subway Relays, posted by WillD on Tue May 29 01:04:52 2012. In the early '70s, my sister was coming home from Manhattan, changing at Roosevelt Av for the GG to 63 Dr. When she woke up and got off at 63 Dr, she was shocked to find herself on the Manhattan-bound platform. She had slept through her stop on the Queens-bound train, and slept through the entire relay unnoticed and undisturbed by TA personnel.Imagine if she had slept one stop longer and woken up at Woodhaven Blvd. She would have thought she still had one more station to go Queens-bound to 63 Dr, and she would have stayed on the train to Grand Av! Of course there were no announcements on the R9s. |
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