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| Image 133450-Budd with blue doors (1154063) | |
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| (1154063) | |
Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 15:19:15 2012 Now there, you see? Brand new cars with blue doors. Come on already, brighten up these drab cars. They could completely duplicate the look of that car with corrugated exterior and all. They would look sweet. Don't you think? |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue May 1 17:39:47 2012, in response to Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 15:19:15 2012. I see nothing. Try again. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue May 1 17:39:47 2012. Here's the pic.
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 19:08:35 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. Just imagine this on the new stock. This blue, or any color from the historic colors of the MTA. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue May 1 19:11:38 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. Why didn't they get stainless doors like all other Budd cars ? |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by CJ on Tue May 1 19:23:08 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Joe V on Tue May 1 19:11:38 2012. I thought all the R32s were 100% stainless steel including the doors themselves. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 1 19:54:02 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by CJ on Tue May 1 19:23:08 2012. They were. Ours were painted blue as part of the styling. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 1 19:55:01 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. Nice "new car look!" Just look at how white the ceramics are on the grids there ... must have just come off the truck ... |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 1 20:24:04 2012, in response to Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 15:19:15 2012. The TA has no money for cars with a couple years of service left. Care to kick in a few bucks ?Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by zac on Tue May 1 20:54:46 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. They probably still had "new car smell". Still my favorites. |
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| (1154129) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue May 1 21:13:30 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 19:08:35 2012. I can imagine it, and it sucks bigtime. |
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| (1154150) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Q Brightliner Harry on Tue May 1 23:35:30 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 19:08:35 2012. I also prefer the ribbing all the way up and the color scheme, outside and inside, that the R32s originally had. |
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| (1154160) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 2 01:21:48 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by zac on Tue May 1 20:54:46 2012. yup. Best look, best scheme. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed May 2 07:31:41 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. FINE lookin'...wow... |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 2 12:51:44 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 1 20:24:04 2012. The R32's are needed until 2017, unless the R179 contract is accelerated. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed May 2 13:59:21 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. Gosh, seeing that makes me blue ....--Mark |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 2 15:49:56 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 1 19:54:02 2012. I was under the impression that the original doors on the R-32s were aluminum rather than stainless steel thus the blue paint. I believe that was also the case with the original doors on the R-38s through 42s since they appeared to be painted an aluminum color rather than bare stainless steel like the replacement doors were. |
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| (1154258) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 2 15:54:51 2012, in response to Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by blue8irt on Tue May 1 15:19:15 2012. Although the R-32 was an excellent car aesthetically and operationally, My vote for the best car design goes to the R-11s as delivered without the R-34ized blue doors. Their window design was close to the picture window design of the R-32s and the porthole widows on the doors gave the cars a distinctive look. It would have been nice to have had a few hundred of them rather than the poorly performing army green R-16s that were eventually ordered. |
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| (1154261) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by CJ on Wed May 2 16:03:19 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 15:54:51 2012. The R11s would of looked spectacular running on the 2nd Avenue Subway if the subway was built back then that is. R16s I can't really explain what happened to them and still can't figure out how the R10-15s did well in service and then come 1954-1955 with the R16s. IMHO the R16s would of been better off on the IND lines then on the BMT division. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed May 2 16:39:16 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Newkirk Images on Tue May 1 20:24:04 2012. They can have as many years of service left as the accountants allow. The Q cars lasted 64 years. |
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| (1154280) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 2 17:26:19 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by CJ on Wed May 2 16:03:19 2012. What I don't understand about the R-16s is that the IRT R-17s through 22s were mechanically identical to the R-16s and yet seem to have performed much better despite the longer lines and heavier service in which they operated. |
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| (1154291) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 18:10:27 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 15:49:56 2012. Possibility there ... thought they were steel. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 18:12:32 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 15:54:51 2012. Those cars with all their additional toys were extremely expensive. Those were the "million dollar train" cars. Politics alone would prevent any more being bought. But they WERE nice. |
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| (1154313) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by CJ on Wed May 2 19:44:38 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Joe V on Wed May 2 16:39:16 2012. Any subway car in general can be made to last longer past their useful lives if needed to. |
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| (1154314) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by CJ on Wed May 2 19:46:51 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 17:26:19 2012. I think it may have had to do with the different car builders, but I can't really say for sure. |
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| (1154342) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 2 21:31:35 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by CJ on Wed May 2 19:46:51 2012. The electrical equipment was split between GE and WH and the brakes were all WABCO, so the car manufacturer should be of no consequence. |
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| (1154344) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Wed May 2 21:34:10 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 18:12:32 2012. It wouldn't have been necessary to have all the electro mechanical components identical to the R-11s. they could have been ordered with the same electrical equipment as their slightly similar in appearance but LAHT R-15s but with the external and interior deign that the rest of the R-11s had. |
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| (1154346) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 21:42:42 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 21:34:10 2012. Given how well those and the 32's held up over time, couldn't agree more. My understanding though is that the 32's were originally planned to be LAHT like its cousins but Budd won the bid with stainless anyway. BoT never did live down the "million dollar train" thing in the media so I would imagine they'd be gunshy about anything that looked like the 11/34's ... |
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| (1154373) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 3 00:39:02 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Wed May 2 17:26:19 2012. Maybe the design didn't scale well for the extra 9 feet... |
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| (1154457) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 3 15:06:37 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu May 3 00:39:02 2012. That didn't seem to make any difference a few years later when the R-27s and 30s were ordered. |
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| (1154469) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 3 15:52:54 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 21:42:42 2012. Except for the LAHT construction, the R-15s were very similar indesign to the R-11s. The only external differences were of course LAHT construction, the side widows and the ventilation system which was the first use of axiflow fans on the NYCTS. A stainless steel R-15 would have been a nice looking car. It has been reported that Budd submitted a contract in the late 1930s for a stainless steel R-9 but the B of T stuck with the old heavyweight design declining even to use the lighter weight construction techniques used on the BMT Multis. I've been trying to find out if there is any sort of artist's rendering of the Budd design for a stainless steel R-9 but I haven't had any success so far. |
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| (1154470) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 3 15:53:08 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 21:42:42 2012. Except for the LAHT construction, the R-15s were very similar indesign to the R-11s. The only external differences were of course LAHT construction, the side widows and the ventilation system which was the first use of axiflow fans on the NYCTS. A stainless steel R-15 would have been a nice looking car. It has been reported that Budd submitted a contract in the late 1930s for a stainless steel R-9 but the B of T stuck with the old heavyweight design declining even to use the lighter weight construction techniques used on the BMT Multis. I've been trying to find out if there is any sort of artist's rendering of the Budd design for a stainless steel R-9 but I haven't had any success so far. |
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| (1154492) | |
Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:12:19 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 18:12:32 2012. Those cars with all their additional toys were extremely expensive. Those were the "million dollar train" cars. Politics alone would prevent any more being bought. But they WERE nice.The "Million Dollar Train" of ten cars would put the cost at roughly $100,000 per car. I read some years ago that fourteen years later, the R-32 six hundred car order placed the cost at $114,700 per car. So adjusting for inflation, was the Million Dollar Train really expensive, bells and whistles considered ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 3 18:24:56 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Thu May 3 15:52:54 2012. Now THAT would be interesting! But yeah, they had a real issue with stainless and appearances back then. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 3 18:38:36 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu May 3 17:12:19 2012. Sure was to the media of the time. And in the greater political realm, bad press scatters the rats. :)A few years ago, someone posted the front page of the newspaper making that declaration. But thanks to the history revisionist capabilities of the intarwebs, it's gone now. :( |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 3 21:07:31 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 18:10:27 2012. Probably not stainless though - in later years, as the paint was worn off, the doors didn't look anything like the rest of the exterior. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 3 21:09:43 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 3 21:07:31 2012. Randyo's probably right about that. By the time I left the city, they were still blue under the graf. :) |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri May 4 17:26:20 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 3 21:09:43 2012. When they gave some R38s, R42s, and a single R16 the blue doors, they looked tacky. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri May 4 23:47:58 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue May 1 18:44:43 2012. Brings back pleasant memories. That's how they looked when I rode on them for the first timne in 1965 - bright and shiny. |
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Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat May 5 10:25:32 2012, in response to Re: Image 133450-Budd with blue doors, posted by randyo on Thu May 3 15:06:37 2012. Bad karma, perhaps? |
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