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| LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed (1154173) | |
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| (1154173) | |
LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012 Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailedpasadenastarnews.com 05/01/2012 10:10:35 PM PDT Despite an outcry from labor unions, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority on Monday approved buying up to $900 million worth of light-rail cars for various transit projects under construction and to replace aging models. The deal with Kinkisharyo International LLC involves the initial purchase of 78 rail cars for $299 million. Metro has the option to purchase an additional 157 rail cars for up to $591 million. The rail cars will be used on the Expo Line Phase II, Gold Line Foothill Extension, Crenshaw Line and the Blue Line, which has 70 vehicles that must be retired by 2018. Metro Chief Executive Officer Art Leahy stressed the need to hire a contractor that would deliver rail cars on time and under budget, noting the Expo Line Phase II and Gold Line Foothill Extension are both slated to open in just three years. "We are out of slack, since the last several years of delay has consumed whatever slack there had been," he said. "We are now right on the edge of slipping behind the construction schedule." Metro negotiated with AnsaldoBreda to buy 100 rail cars in 2009, but the deal fell through. The company is several years late in delivering rail cars for other Metro projects. Metro turned to Massachusetts-based Kinkisharyo, a subsidiary of the Kinki Sharyo Co. of Japan, noting it had a record of making quality rail cars and had never been late delivering them. Losing bidders Siemens Industry, Inc. and CAF USA, Inc. each protested. During Metro's board meeting Monday, members of several labor unions spoke in favor of Siemens, including Shamari Davis, a business representative for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 11. "We're talking about shipping our jobs to another country," he said. "I urge the board to vote for Los Angeles County and not for Japan." But board member and county Supervisor Don Knabe stressed that Metro required whoever won the contract to create jobs in the U.S. And, all three bidders committed to doing final assembly of the cars in Los Angeles County, Metro officials said. Metro's analysis showed Kinkisharyo would generate $98 million in wages and benefits, with a full impact of $139million to the U.S. economy. The jobs proposed by Siemens, meanwhile, would have an impact of $141million to the U.S. economy. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 04:17:18 2012, in response to LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012. Heh. Kinki's! Ask Newark how that worked out for them. :( |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 10:38:25 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 04:17:18 2012. Ask Newark how that worked out for them.I'm bored. How did they work out in Newark and Jersey City because they seem to be the only thing that NJT has purchased in the past few years that doesn't have a reputation of being POS... |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by The Silence on Wed May 2 10:54:17 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 10:38:25 2012. I know they are the one thing I've never heard anyone complain about, save the fact the newark cars sent the PCCs into retirement.for that matter, let's ask Boston, San Jose, Dallas, Phoenix and seattle what they think about thier KinkiSharyos. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Easy on Wed May 2 11:38:49 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 10:38:25 2012. I'm curious myself because among the reasons that LA Metro cited when selecting them was their excellent delivery record and quality reported by other agencies. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed May 2 12:28:24 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 04:17:18 2012. Heh. Kinki's! Ask Newark how that worked out for them. :( No, please do tell us what Newark would tell us. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 2 12:31:23 2012, in response to LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012. As the market gets competitive, the losing bidders use public bullying or cajoling tactics to overcome rivals. Think Bredas plant in LA ploy. As to who does better work, seems to me there have been problems with cars built by everyone in one case or another. We all know about Boeing's LRVs. Boston's next fleet from Kinki is the workhorse of the Green Line. The Bredas were years late... CAF was caught using parts not meeting contract specs on a batch of WMATA cars. There were early issues w/both the Bombardier and Kawasaki NTT cars IINM. Say Acela, say problems. I am less aware of Siemens lemons but I suspect there is history. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 2 12:44:52 2012, in response to LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012. "We're talking about shipping our jobs to another country," he said. "I urge the board to vote for Los Angeles County and not for Japan."Hmmm, protectionism and racism. Don't even to see if he's a Democrat. Your union is incidental to this process. STFU and do your job. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 2 12:45:05 2012, in response to LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012. "We're talking about shipping our jobs to another country," he said. "I urge the board to vote for Los Angeles County and not for Japan."Hmmm, protectionism and racism. Don't even need to see if he's a Democrat. Your union is incidental to this process. STFU and do your job. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 2 12:51:40 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 04:17:18 2012. KinkiSharyo has a FAR better track record than the other three companies listed. LACMTA made the best choice they had. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Easy on Wed May 2 14:57:17 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 2 12:31:23 2012. Siemens' quality is good too, but iirc they weren't quite as good as Kinki with on time delivery. LA Metro is in panic mode because if the cars are delivered late they won't have enough cars to open Expo phase 2 in 2015/2016. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Easy on Wed May 2 14:59:44 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed May 2 12:44:52 2012. Racism? |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 17:52:01 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 10:38:25 2012. Maybe that's it. The olde PCC's got you end to end in a flash, the Kinki's leave you time to read cover to cover. I thought I'd heard they weren't doing so well ... I guess I spend too much time here on the main board. :) |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 21:57:52 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 17:52:01 2012. The olde PCC's got you end to end in a flashFWIW, the only PCCs that I've been on have been the refurbished units in San Francisco and Boston, and based on those units, there's no way that the PCCs could beat Kinki Sharyos. After an initial burst, the PCCs don't really accelerate that well, while it's a joke for Sharyos to reach 45 mph, and 55 mph doesn't require stupid pet tricks like a BMT tunnel under the East River under a full moon. :-) |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 22:19:10 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed May 2 21:57:52 2012. Only thing I have to go on is comments made here in the past by regular Newark riders. Last time I rode the "city subway" the PCC's were running strong down there. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by The Silence on Thu May 3 01:01:07 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 2 22:19:10 2012. the kind of people in the past who would have said such things were probibly missing the PCCs. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 3 15:33:46 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by The Silence on Thu May 3 01:01:07 2012. The PCCs' quick acceleration would be as least as much of a benefit as higher top speed, if we're dealing with Newark. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by randyo on Thu May 3 16:07:47 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by 3-9 on Thu May 3 15:33:46 2012. Back in 1974, I attended a seminar given by IEEE on new technology for railcars and one of the topics discussed was the best desired acceleration rate to be used on new light rail and rapid transit cars. The thinking at that time was that the "jerk rate" of PCC acceleration which was 4 MPHPS was uncomfortable for the passengers and thus new railcars would have a lower acceleration rate than the PCC. That would explain why cars like Boeing LRVs, Boston type 7s, and other such LRVs don't seem to meet the performance of the PCCs they replaced. Despite that when PCCs were introduced in the 1930s, ridership on streetcar lines that had them increased substantially and PCC technology found its way into rapid transit cars of Chicago and Boston, the latter day designers chose to fix what wasn't broken and sacrificed performance for the sake of a perceived improvement in passenger comfort. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri May 4 08:44:22 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by randyo on Thu May 3 16:07:47 2012. the latter day designers chose to fix what wasn't broken and sacrificed performance for the sake of a perceived improvement in passenger comfort.More than likely, performance was sacrificed for the sake of reducing lawsuits from people who fall during acceleration. |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri May 4 09:53:18 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by The Silence on Thu May 3 01:01:07 2012. Not sure about the top speed or how long it took to get there, but the PCC accelerated much faster when starting. Maybe that's where the perception came from. And being shorter, they were more frequent.
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri May 4 12:38:58 2012, in response to Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri May 4 08:44:22 2012. More than likely, performance was sacrificed for the sake of reducing lawsuits from people who fall during acceleration.Is/was there a problem of lawsuits from people who got injured because of jerky cars? |
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Re: LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed |
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Posted by numbersix on Sat May 5 21:00:13 2012, in response to LACMTA Metro plan to purchase rail cars from Japanese firm assailed, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed May 2 04:13:28 2012. Japanese rail cars save on energy costs. The radioactivity keeps the batteries charged for 500,000 years or so. |
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