Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars

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Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:17:03 2012 edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d . . . that is, as soon as the bid goes out. Not a big jump in capacity if they're to have only 90 seats as compared to the single-level Horizon-fleet's average of 70 seats per car. Port Huron Times Herald Amtrak to upgrade Blue Water rail cars New coaches will have two levels of seating, Wi-fi 11:00 PM, Apr. 24, 2012 By JULIANNE MATTERA \| Times Herald Trains pulling cars with two levels of seating featuring built-in Wi-fi and even room for passengers’ bikes are in the Blue Water Route’s future. Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said he expects the bi-level cars will be on train routes in about three years. The specifications for the train cars were designed by a committee that included Amtrak, the company’s state partners, the Federal Railroad Administration and other groups, he said. “Don’t doubt that we want to get these cars deployed and in service as quickly as possible,” Magliari said. The Federal Railroad Administration announced Friday it would be taking bids to manufacture about 130 new bi-level passenger rail cars in the United States. The administration’s High-Speed and Intercity Passenger Rail Program will provide funding for the $551 million project. The bi-level trains will be able to reach speeds of 125 mph, although the railroad might not be capable of supporting such speeds. Currently, the trains running on the Blue Water Route can travel up to 110 mph in western Michigan. Current coach cars have about 70 seats; the new cars will have about 90 seats. Single-level trains will continue to be used after the bi-level cars are put on Michigan railroad tracks, Magliari said. Amtrak has been adding amenities, such as Wi-fi, and is considering adding bike racks. Magliari said new equipment typically brings more passengers. The Port Huron Amtrak station, 2223 16^th St., has been serving more passengers in recent years, according to Amtrak’s numbers. The station had 24,015 departures and arrivals from October 2010 to September 2011. The previous year, that number was 17,580. Rail passengers are coping with delays as crews do maintenance work on the tracks to eliminate speed restrictions. The work has lengthened travel times on the Blue Water route by 45 minutes, Magliari said. Maintenance work is expected to wrap up by early May, Magliari said. Speed restrictions were imposed on sections of the train tracks in March because of needed maintenance.
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(1153771)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Sun Apr 29 18:28:49 2012, in response to Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:17:03 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I see two benefits: -"room for passengers' bikes" -"new equipment typically brings more passengers". I would concur as such a change would be an upgrade in the comfort department: as much as I love Pullman Standard, their Comet design (which Bombardier acquired) is as utilitarian as it gets. The smaller windows were intended for narrower rows so that more passengers could be squished into the cars. Amtrak uses better spacing between the rows but in the Horizon's case, this results in many of the seats with a wall blocking the view. And the lower window height gives aisle passengers very little to look at.
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(1153780)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Apr 29 19:05:21 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 29 18:28:49 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You ever ride the Horizons? I once did between Milwaukee and Chicago and I did not feel "squished" . . . and I had the Comet Is and IIs to compare them to.
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(1153787)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by R36 #9346* on Sun Apr 29 19:15:40 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 19:05:21 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I once [rode the Horizon cars] between Milwaukee and Chicago and I did not feel "squished." That's because Amtrak uses better spacing between the rows, compared to commuter railroads.
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(1153800)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Apr 29 19:57:53 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Apr 29 18:28:49 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The Horizons put on mileage at about 3X the rate than their commuter Comets cousins. Their plumbing can't handle midwest winters.
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(1153801)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Apr 29 19:58:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 29 19:15:40 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They ride better than Amfleet.
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(1153805)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Apr 29 20:22:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R36 #9346 on Sun Apr 29 19:15:40 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm not the one talking about being "squished" on a Horizon car though.
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(1153844)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by R30A* on Sun Apr 29 22:22:45 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 29 19:58:38 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No they don't. They tend to run on lines with lower speed which can bring that impression. Try riding them on the NEC running at 125. Not too pleasant.
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(1153847)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Apr 29 22:37:06 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R30A on Sun Apr 29 22:22:45 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d . . . and you experienced this on the NEC? When and what train?
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(1153849)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by R30A* on Sun Apr 29 22:52:59 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 22:37:06 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Carolinian in 2002, Three Rivers in 2003, and Vermonter in 2009 The Amfleets bracketing the cars in each case were a lot smoother. (as was the case outside of the NEC. Amfleets are better cars all around.)
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(1153864)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Apr 29 23:50:56 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R30A on Sun Apr 29 22:52:59 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Might have been influenced by mixing of fleets. Hiawatha I was on was all Horizon.
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(1153872)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by WillD* on Mon Apr 30 00:18:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 23:50:56 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ...and thus ran a lot slower than any of the examples Lincoln named.
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(1153883)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Mon Apr 30 02:23:56 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 20:22:10 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Neither was I. here is some handholding while I step through the comment: I was saying that the carbody design was intended to maximize the number of rows, which is why the windows are smaller than Amfleets (or any current long distance car class). When you have a window pattern designed for 21 rows of seats, but only put 18 rows, the windows do not line up properly leading to an awkward view for just under half the rows, making those rows less "comfortable" (visual comfort is just as important as legroom and seat quality).
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(1153963)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Apr 30 16:56:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R30A on Sun Apr 29 22:22:45 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ah, but I have ridden both at 79MPH on the Hiawathas. Horizon cars ride like Heritage cars. Amfleet vibrate, rattle, and shake just like they do here.
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Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Joe V* on Mon Apr 30 16:57:54 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by R30A on Sun Apr 29 22:52:59 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Don't confuse Amfleet-2 and Amfleet-1. Different truck, bolsters,and suspension system, even if they look alike at first glance.
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(1153973)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by R30A* on Mon Apr 30 18:28:00 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 30 16:57:54 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm not confusing either of them. Both groups of Amfleets are a hell of a lot smoother and quieter than the Horizons.
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(1154089)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by orange blossom special* on Tue May 1 18:08:51 2012, in response to Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 29 14:17:03 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Why does the broke states get the new equipment?
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(1154097)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue May 1 18:48:13 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by orange blossom special on Tue May 1 18:08:51 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Redistribution principle.
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(1154132)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Henry R32 #3730* on Tue May 1 21:26:12 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by orange blossom special on Tue May 1 18:08:51 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I would say because the Amfleets are awesome and the only thing the non-broke northeast needs is longer trains :).
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Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue May 1 21:28:58 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue May 1 21:26:12 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Used to be plenty of sixteen-car trains on the NEC (and the PRR used to run twenty-car trains and longer, as "corridor" trains). Even the last Clockers were fourteen cars long (and hauled by ALP-46s). What happened?
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(1154161)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Jackson Park B Train* on Wed May 2 01:29:20 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by orange blossom special on Tue May 1 18:08:51 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d cause we are paying for them. the genesis of this order is the bond money voted several years ago (bonds sold IINM) by us in CA. the smart move is to mass produce to a common standard (like PRR and the Harriman owned lines a century ago) so as to have common parts/features thus interoperability if there is a need to run extra service for some event. And, dimensionally they don't fit either the B&P or North River tunnels.
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(1154163)	view threaded
Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed May 2 02:13:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak Blue Water to get bilevel cars, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed May 2 01:29:20 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Such a thing would work best if all platforms were low. Then you could have had "Superliners" that are 14' 6" tall instead of 16' tall and could run everywhere on the system including the North River Tunnels, perhaps at any speed you want. But central planners in the Northeast have been on a binge for a half-century to convert most passenger platforms in the Northeast from low to high; it's been a big waste of dough.
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