Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab

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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by Jace* on Wed Apr 11 10:35:16 2012, in response to GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by znufrii on Tue Apr 10 09:44:14 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The report really doesn't say much new, but that's the whole point. Lautenberg most likely asked for the report just to put the spotlight on Christie. Not surprising since Christie cancelled a major, major project pushed through by Lautenberg. When Christie pulled the plug on ARC he scored big time (at least short term) by making himself look fiscally conservative on a national scale at the expense of the democrats (especially Lautenberg) while also avoiding a tax increase to bail out the highway fund (a time bomb left to him by Corzine). It appeared to be a very shrewd move but he also took a huge gamble. Massive projects like this almost never get cancelled as there's too much money and political capital involved. Christie is going to face continuing repercussions. Any service problems on the Jersey side of Penn will ultimately be blamed on him, putting him in the position where he can now be held hostage by NJT's or Amtrak's failures/ineptitiude - something I find very ironic. It'll be interesting to see how well his party covers his back once these meltdowns occur: thousands of angry voters on trains trapped in the aging tunnels. Now imagine if someone gets hurt or worse, is killed. Politics as usual...
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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by The Silence* on Wed Apr 11 11:47:46 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by WillD on Wed Apr 11 00:59:25 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You were of course personally involved in the project and thus privy to the internal discussions that would lead you to this conclusion, right? It made the freaking news, idiot. the entire conversations I was a part of when the tunnel was first cancled are playing out in my head, I remmember them almost word for word. Stop being a partisan hack. Oh, I'M a partisan hack? Everyone goes after christie over the tunnel issues and I'M the partisan hack?
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Quinnipiac: Christie's approval rating soaring
Posted by Chris R16/R2730* on Wed Apr 11 12:21:47 2012, in response to GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by znufrii on Tue Apr 10 09:44:14 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I was going to put this in OT, but since we have a Christie related thread here, I thought why not: http://www.quinnipiac.edu/institutes-and-centers/polling-institute/new-jersey/release-detail?ReleaseID=1735 New Jersey voters still approve 59 - 36 percent of the job Christie is doing, his best score ever. Approval is 92 - 6 percent among Republicans and 64 - 32 percent among independent voters There's a slew of other polls out today which will is going to frustrate the butts of many on here, but I will leave that for OT.
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(1150208)	view threaded
Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by Dan Lawrence* on Wed Apr 11 13:15:11 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by Rockparkman on Tue Apr 10 18:53:36 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, that's where the Flying Saucers are built, silly rabbit.
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Re: Quinnipiac: Christie's approval rating soaring
Posted by znufrii* on Wed Apr 11 13:57:33 2012, in response to Quinnipiac: Christie's approval rating soaring, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 11 12:21:47 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d so what's your point, that the voters of NJ are as dumb as their governor?
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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by Rockparkman* on Wed Apr 11 16:44:49 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by WillD on Wed Apr 11 00:59:25 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Will, Silence is a business owner.
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(1150237)	view threaded
Re: Quinnipiac: Christie's approval rating soaring
Posted by Rockparkman* on Wed Apr 11 16:49:28 2012, in response to Re: Quinnipiac: Christie's approval rating soaring, posted by znufrii on Wed Apr 11 13:57:33 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I think that crap headbang music has fucked Chris's pea brain up.
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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by The Silence* on Wed Apr 11 17:25:24 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by Rockparkman on Wed Apr 11 16:44:49 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d wrong, try again
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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by Olog-hai* on Wed Apr 11 17:46:10 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by Rockparkman on Wed Apr 11 16:44:49 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d
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Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab
Posted by blue8irt* on Wed Apr 11 20:50:24 2012, in response to Re: GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by Rockparkman on Tue Apr 10 19:50:09 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Exactly.
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Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Apr 14 16:10:04 2012, in response to GAO nails Christie for exaggerating costs ARC cash grab, posted by znufrii on Tue Apr 10 09:44:14 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The fellow just can't think straight, with that super-partisan bent. Your paper already admitted to $10 million in costs, which vindicates Christie endlessly; the papers before and during the cancellation kept saying "$7.5 billion, $7.5 billion". Funny he says absolutely nothing about the "retirements" of the Comet IIIs and ALP-44s . . . mustn't be important to him. NY Slimes, his home Cannibalize the Future By PAUL KRUGMAN Published: April 12, 2012 One general rule of modern politics is that the people who talk most about future generations — who go around solemnly declaring that we’re burdening our children with debt — are, in practice, the people most eager to sacrifice our future for short-term political gain. You can see that principle at work in the House Republican budget, which starts with dire warnings about the evils of deficits, then calls for tax cuts that would make the deficit even bigger, offset only by the claim to have a secret plan to make up for the revenue losses somehow or other. And you can see it in the actions of Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey, who talks loudly about acting responsibly but may actually be the least responsible governor the state has ever had. Mr. Christie’s big move — the one that will define his record — was his unilateral decision back in 2010 to cancel work that was already under way on a new rail tunnel linking New Jersey with New York. At the time, Mr. Christie claimed that he was just being fiscally responsible, while critics said that he had canceled the project just so he could raid it for funds. Now the independent Government Accountability Office has weighed in with a report on the controversy, and it confirms everything the critics were saying. Much press coverage of the new report focuses, understandably, on the evidence that Mr. Christie made false statements about the tunnel’s financing and cost. The governor asserted that the projected costs were rising sharply; the report tells us that this simply wasn’t true. The governor claimed that New Jersey was being asked to pay for 70 percent of a project that would shower benefits on residents of New York; in fact, the bulk of the financing would have come either from the federal government or from the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which collects revenue from residents of both states. But while it’s important to document Mr. Christie’s mendacity, it’s even more important to understand the utter folly of his decision. The new report drives home just how necessary, and very much overdue, the tunnel project was and is. Demand for public transit is rising across America, reflecting both population growth and shifting preferences in an era of high gas prices. Yet New Jersey is linked to New York by just two single-track tunnels built a century ago — tunnels that run at 100 percent of capacity during peak hours. How could this situation not call for new investment? Well, Mr. Christie insisted that his state couldn’t afford the cost. As we’ve already seen, however, he apparently couldn’t make that case without being dishonest about the numbers. So what was his real motive? One answer is that the governor is widely assumed to have national ambitions, and the Republican base hates government spending in general (unless it’s on weapons). And it hates public transportation in particular. Indeed, three other Republican governors — in Florida, Ohio and Wisconsin — have also canceled public transportation projects supported by federal funds. The difference, of course, is that New Jersey is a densely populated state, most of whose residents live either in Greater New York or Greater Philadelphia; given that position, public transit is the state’s lifeblood, and refusing to invest in such transportation will strangle the state’s economy. Another answer is that canceling the tunnel allowed Mr. Christie to divert funds from that project — as his critics have said, to cannibalize the investment — and put them into the state highway fund, thereby avoiding the need to raise the state’s tax on gasoline. New Jersey gas taxes, by the way, are lower in real terms than at any point in the state’s history. But, as a candidate, Mr. Christie said that he wouldn’t raise those taxes, so cannibalizing the tunnel helped him avoid embarrassment. The crucial point about both of these explanations is that they stand Mr. Christie’s narrative about himself on its head. The governor poses as a man willing to make hard choices for the future, but what he actually did was sacrifice the future for the sake of personal political advantage. He catered to national Republican prejudices that are completely at odds with New Jersey’s needs; he cared more about avoiding embarrassment over a misguided campaign pledge than about serving an urgent public need. Unfortunately, Mr. Christie’s behavior is all too typical these days. America used to be a country that thought big about the future. Major public projects, from the Erie Canal to the interstate highway system, used to be a well-understood component of our national greatness. Nowadays, however, the only big projects politicians are willing to undertake — with expense no object — seem to be wars. Funny how that works.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Joe V* on Sat Apr 14 17:13:53 2012, in response to Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 14 16:10:04 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Comparisons with midwest projects aren't valid. He just sees Republican governors killing rail projects, not knowing details of each.
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Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again.
Posted by Rockparkman* on Sat Apr 14 19:08:38 2012, in response to Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 14 16:10:04 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ESAD, SCUMBAG.
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Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Apr 14 19:14:06 2012, in response to Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again., posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 14 19:08:38 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Wow, you really must want someone to dismember you or something. You really hate yourself that much?
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Re: Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again.
Posted by Dutchrailnut* on Sat Apr 14 19:17:03 2012, in response to Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again., posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 14 19:08:38 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Tourets syndrome example
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Re: Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again.
Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 14 19:19:55 2012, in response to Re: Slobo sucking Reagan loving Son of a WHORE vandalizes threads again., posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Apr 14 19:17:03 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ah, another Nazi heard from.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Rockparkman* on Sat Apr 14 19:20:37 2012, in response to Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 14 19:14:06 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Is that a threat, gutless Churchill lover?
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Apr 14 19:21:50 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 14 19:20:37 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No punk fears threats. BTW, you and Krugman hate trains.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Apr 14 19:22:51 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 14 19:20:37 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Only punks fear threats. Don't be a punk. BTW, you and Krugman hate trains.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by J trainloco* on Sat Apr 14 22:54:23 2012, in response to Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 14 16:10:04 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Your paper already admitted to $10 million in costs,which vindicates Christie endlessly; the papers before and during the cancellation kept saying "$7.5 billion,$7.5 billion". Sometimes, I honestly have to wonder if even you believe what you post. First, the number quoted was 8.7 Billion, NOT 7.5. Second, all these estimates were performed PRIOR to completion of design. Therefore, they were always rough estimates, and that was why there was a higher end of those estimates, which according to NJT was 10 Billion, and according to FTA was 12.4 (or .5. I can't remember). However, Christie based his decision to cancel the tunnel on what he claimed were estimates that reached as high as 14B. The GAO has essentially stated that no such estimate existed, and Christie has not denied that claim. Therefore, the 10B number does nothing to vindicate Christie. BTW, if Christie cared about solving this issue, he would not have cancelled the project, and would have instead value engineered the project, perhaps even re-routing the new tunnels to NYP and building new platforms there. But he didn't. His aim was clearly to use the money to fix NJ's roads.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Apr 15 07:35:58 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by J trainloco on Sat Apr 14 22:54:23 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d On projects of this magnitude like Central Artery, SAS, and ESA, cost escalations occur well into construction. With ARC, they hadn't done a thing, and already upper-end limits of $10B - $12B depending on who you listen to. It easily could have wound up being $20B. Central Artery was supposed to be $2B or $4B, don't remember, turned out to be $16B, and it is indebted thru 2038.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Rockparkman* on Sun Apr 15 09:03:59 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by J trainloco on Sat Apr 14 22:54:23 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d We need more Manhattan access NOW, Not SUBsidies for SUBurban losers. If they want their SUVs they can PAY for the privilege.
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(1151057)	view threaded
Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by J trainloco* on Sun Apr 15 17:27:32 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 15 07:35:58 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Central artery is the worst possible example. 7 west extension is an example of a project with a budget that has stayed on budget.
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Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah)
Posted by Joe V* on Sun Apr 15 18:58:19 2012, in response to Re: Krugman bloviates (GAO blah Christie blah blah blah ARC blah blah), posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 15 17:27:32 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetail:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Other than dropping 10th Ave station, yes. It can be done, but not with NJT in charge, given the time-consuming fiasco they made of child's play projects like sidings in WhiteHouse or along the Pascack.
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