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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by grimace1169 on Wed Apr 11 12:15:28 2012, in response to R16 Scenes, posted by Caz on Wed Apr 11 11:56:37 2012. We're Fighting Back. TVM 1981. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 11 12:22:34 2012, in response to R16 Scenes, posted by Caz on Wed Apr 11 11:56:37 2012. Oh god. It's 1985 again (the year these things seemed to take over the J line completely). Thanks for this. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 11 14:39:35 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 11 12:22:34 2012. Well, they originally had completely taken over the Jamaica Line by the mid 1950s when they were delivered. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Apr 11 21:09:19 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 11 14:39:35 2012. And short lived jaunt on the IND to open the Rockaways about the same time a few R10's returned from the East. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by CJ on Wed Apr 11 21:53:13 2012, in response to R16 Scenes, posted by Caz on Wed Apr 11 11:56:37 2012. Man I wish a train of R16s pulled up to the station. Cleaned of course. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:44:02 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Apr 11 12:22:34 2012. Hahaha, and I am thinking of fall 1986 when they INFESTED the M line.... I used to HATE those trains back then, I remember sitting on one of them (and they looked just like the video) in fall of 1986, after we lost the blue doored cleaned up R42's and the line was infested with those things. I had wondered what M riders must have done to deserve those trains.... We usually were stuck with the filthy R27-30's, but the R16's were so much worse. I remember them on the L train too splashed in between the other trains.Now I only wish one of those rolling basket cases would pull into the station. Nostalgia! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:45:06 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Wed Apr 11 21:53:13 2012. I wouldn't know what a "clean" R16 was...they always looked like that video in my memory! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 13:39:09 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Wed Apr 11 14:39:35 2012. But they went from an occasional nuisance to outright domination in late 84/early 85, due most likely to the R30's being overhauled. During rush hours, 3 out of every 4 J trains would be R16's. Getting to work on time via one trainride became the exception, not the norm for my father. He absolutely hated these cars and wanted to move closer to another subway line to get away from them. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 13:45:26 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:44:02 2012. Yeah, we got the bulk of the overhauled R30's first (starting in the second half of 85). Once the M was taken off the Brighton line in the spring of 1986 it got assigned the shittiest shit that ever shitted up the ENY barn. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:45:12 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:45:06 2012. I remember when a "clean" R-16 was steel dust covered olive drab. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:49:06 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:45:06 2012. I remember them when they ran on the "14" and "15", before the MTA abortion! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:51:36 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Elkeeper on Thu Apr 12 14:49:06 2012. The Chrystie changes that eliminated the 14 and 15 designations were done by the PRE MTA NYCTA. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 14:55:31 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 07:45:06 2012. An olive green one would be the only R16 I'd like to see. The green color looked good on them IMHO. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 12 14:59:13 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 13:45:26 2012. You are absolutely correct. I think before the Brighton switch to West End, the M was treated better than the J. We had the cleaned up R42's, R40's, etc before the J had them. We also had every class of car on the M....R27-30's, R42's, R40's, R32's, and even R38 occasionally. Once the Brighton switch happened, our rolling stock deteriorated, we got the worst of the worst, and the J was treated better, especially leading up to the Archer Ave opening. The J had the red R30's way before the M had them, it also got the R42 rebuilds sooner too when they came back around 1989.Oddly, I rarely saw slant R40's on the J, but we had them on the M, as well as the L quite often. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Apr 12 16:04:54 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 13:45:26 2012. I had 'VERY LITTLE' trouble with the 16's! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 18:11:55 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 14:55:31 2012. I agree. What I don't understand is why the R-17s which were basically the IRT counterpart to the R-6s were done in maroon rather than olive green, or why the R-16s weren't done in maroon like the R-17s. The later IRT SMEES R-21 and 22 which were basically slightly updated R-17s reverted to the olive color. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 18:54:58 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by monorail on Thu Apr 12 16:04:54 2012. Sounds like you lucked out. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 19:04:53 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 12 18:54:58 2012. There was a NY Times article around 1986 that featured a particular R16 and what they had to go though to keep it going.Anybody know the date and page number ? I figure a good library ought to have it on microfiche (do they still have those ?) |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:16:17 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 12 19:04:53 2012. Someone else posted it here back in 2007, so I'll copy the article from five years ago and post it.The New York Times December 11, 1986, Thursday REQUIEM FOR SUBWAY CAR 6321, AGE 31 By RICHARD LEVINE Section B; Page 1 Car No. 6321 was pronounced dead last week at the Transit Authority East New York maintenance shop after a long illness. It was 31 years old. No ceremony was held, no tears were shed. If anything, riders of the M line should rejoice. It was one of - if not the - biggest lemons in the 6,000-car fleet. That the gray and graffiti-scarred veteran of 897,214 miles was diagnosed as terminally ill and put out of its, and everyone's, misery was the result of a Transit Authority program to spot, repair or simply banish from the system persistent offenders that all by themselves can scramble a rush hour and the schedules of tens of thousands of passengers. 'A Lot of Complexity to These Cars' ''Some people don't think there are such things as lemons,'' Lawrence P. Greenfield, manager of maintenance analysis and planning for the car-equipment department, said. ''They think they should be fixable. But there is a lot of complexity to these cars. ''Riders see a roof and a floor and two sides. They don't see the electrical equipment and pneumatic connections that make it go. You have to get down into the pits to see the switches, motors, relays, wiring. When you have to replace parts that wear out'' -and a subway car has 40,000 parts - ''then you see how complicated it is.'' Every month, an I.B.M. 38C computer compiles a list of all cars in the system, worst at the top, best on the bottom. It is up to the supervisors at the shops to decide what to do about any bad car in their jurisdiction. They might send them out for special repairs, move them to the head of the line for complete overhauls, tow them to the back of the yard to be used only as spares or, as was finally the case with No. 6321, simply get rid of them. With new equipment arriving, the authority plans to scrap a total of 414 cars this year and 530 next year. Just which car is the biggest clinker is hard to say. At the top of the latest lemon list, for the 12 months ended Oct. 31, are three cars averaging fewer than 1,000 miles before breaking down - an R-10 averaging 480 miles, an R-44 averaging 898 and a second R-10 averaging 941. No. 6321, an R-16, was averaging 1,456 miles, making it the 10th worst by that measure. Lemons at Their Ripest By comparison, the fleet, as whole, was averaging 12,369 miles between breakdowns during October, and the gleaming, Japanese-made R-62's on the Lexington Avenue IRT were at 46,791. But to catch lemons at their ripest, the authority scoring system gives more weight to recent failures. Breakdowns are worth 10 points each in the latest three months, 5 points in the previous three months and then 2 points and 1 point in the second and first quarters. No. 6321 had broken down 24 times in the 12-month period, but nine times in the three months ended in October. That gave it more points than any of the nine cars ahead of it on the lemon list. Below No. 6321 on the list were at least two cars with even higher totals - one a relatively new R-46 that had already undergone a minor overhaul and whose problems, Mr. Greenfield said, have been resolved. The shop superintendent in the East New York section of Brooklyn, John S. Cox, started worrying about No. 6321 as it crawled up the lemon list over the summer and became, in his words, ''No. 1 on the hit parade.'' Wouldn't Stay on the Sidelines An overhaul was out of the question, because the R-16's - the second oldest cars in the fleet and a class that Mr. Greenfield says ''aren't anything to write home about now and haven't been for a long time'' - are scheduled to go out of service soon. Instead, Mr. Cox tried to use No. 6321 as little as possible. Because of car shortages, however, it sometimes found its way into rush-hour service, and Mr. Cox tried as best he could to keep it moving. On Aug. 15, No. 6321 was accelerating too slowly at Essex Street in Manhattan, forcing the train it was part of to be taken out of service. There were problems with its doors Aug. 21 and 26. On Sept. 23, it started smoking - what the authority gingerly calls a ''heat generating mishap'' - at Ninth Avenue in Brooklyn. On Oct. 1, it lost power at 95th Street in Brooklyn and was taken out of service. On Oct. 2, the brakes failed to charge, and it was taken out of service at Broad Street in Manhattan. On Oct. 13, 14 and 15, it suffered repeated door problems and had to be removed from service. Series of Miseries The period covered by the lemon list ends in October, but No. 6321's miseries went on. These are some of the details from the Transit Authority's computerized log: * Nov. 11. The train that includes No. 6321 is reported ''dead and dark'' - no power or lights - at 7:20 A.M. at the Fresh Pond yard in Queens before it can even begin its day's work. It turns out that No. 6321 has blown motor-generator fuses. Remarkably, seven of the eight other cars in the train also have problems. It was, Mr. Greenfield said, ''a rolling wreck.'' * Nov. 13. Behaving sluggishly, No. 6321 is taken out of service at the Knickerbocker Avenue station in Brooklyn at 6:30 A.M. because the conductor does not think the train can make it over the Williamsburg Bridge. The passengers are discharged, and the train heads for the East New York shop. One other train is canceled as a result. * Nov. 21. Trouble at Marcy Avenue in Brooklyn is reported at 5:13 P.M. This time, it is not the fault of No. 6321. A trip arm on the track is up when it should have been down, setting off the car's emergency brakes. Fortunately, there are no injuries, and the train stays in service. * Nov. 25. No. 6321 breaks down in the Essex Street station at 3:22 P.M., its doors failing to open. It is not clear why. The train is taken out of service, and the delay causes one other train to be canceled. * Dec. 4. No. 6321 fails in the Broad Street station at 8:49 A.M., backing up three other trains. Its four motors are dead because of deteriorated wiring. The train is taken out of service. #10 Pages of Failures By then, Mr. Cox had made up his mind. The career of No. 6321 formally ended the next day. Some parts were scavenged at East New York; others will be stripped when the car arrives at the main maintenance plant at Coney Island on McDonald Avenue in Brooklyn. No. 6321 left as an epitaph a computer printout covering its last troubled year - 10 pages of brake failures, power failures, smoky motors, blown fuses and malfunctioning doors interspersed with scores of repairs. ''This car is telling us that something is wrong,'' Mr. Greenfield says, reviewing the record in his office in downtown Brooklyn. ''We are listening now, rather than ignoring it.'' An optimistic man, Mr. Greenfield can envision a time when he will no longer be facing a monthly lemon list. ''That great day is coming soon,'' he insisted. ''By the end of 1989, we will have a fleet that is completely new and overhauled, so we should have a drastic reduction in major lemons. ''Then I'll worry about improving the quality of the new cars. There's always plenty of work to do around here.'' |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:19:09 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 18:11:55 2012. Probably cause the R16s were built by ACF while the R17s were built by St. Louis. |
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Posted by mshull on Thu Apr 12 19:37:53 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:16:17 2012. November 11 - Fresh Pond Yard - Seven of the eight other cars in the train also have problems.I didn't know nine car trains could fit at Metropolitan! No proofreading there. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Apr 12 20:57:48 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:19:09 2012. When the New York World's Fair opened in 1964 there were not enough Bluebird on hand to cover the service. Mainline R-33 Redbirds were sent to the Flushing Line to cover the schedules. A number of R-17's were retained to make up the eleventh car on a normal train set with the Redbirds. Once they did a few runs through the Corona Car Wash their maroon paint scheme should up quite nicely on a train where the other 10 cars had that brilliant Tartar Red paint.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Apr 13 00:16:11 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:16:17 2012. Were these cars signed up int0 RR service after 1984 or was this car's Oct 1 trip just a JJ reroute before the N/RR swap in '87? I only recall R16s running in Jamaica service at the same time the 7 car R10s were still on the GG, maybe mid 84 at the latest |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Apr 13 00:35:29 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by mshull on Thu Apr 12 19:37:53 2012. fresh pond yard and metro could accommodate 9 car trains, if not more.... |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 13 01:43:57 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Thu Apr 12 14:51:36 2012. why did the BMT EAST keep its numbering system for so long while the south changed over to letters when the R27/30 came about? |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 13 08:36:40 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Edwards! on Fri Apr 13 01:43:57 2012. I'm just gonna guess here, but I suspect the thennewish R16s had been delivered with BMT route numbers, whereas the decsion to go to letters was made just before delivery of the R27s and R30s. Since the 27/30 and for that matter, the R32s went to the Southern Division, and replaced Standards (which had no front route designations) and soon, the Triplexes, they were able to make a "clean break" to the new route designations there, but out Wast, they felt stuck with the "legacy" designations. It took something as big as Chrystie St to go "all the way"... |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 13 08:37:37 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Apr 13 08:36:40 2012. Sorry- "Wast" was a typo. I meant "East". |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:40:18 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:16:17 2012. * Nov. 13. Behaving sluggishly, No. 6321 is taken out of service at the Knickerbocker Avenue station in Brooklyn at 6:30 A.M. because the conductor does not think the train can make it over the Williamsburg Bridge. The passengers are discharged, and the train heads for the East New York shop. One other train is canceled as a result.I believe this is the incident I often refer to when communicating just how bad the 16's were by 1986. IIRC, there was also a switch malfunction at Metropolitan Ave which prevented the track with an R27 consist from being used (couldn't cross over). The 8 car R16 on the other track was destined to be taken OOS, but due to the need to get something going, the train was cut in half and run as a 4 car train. Short train + 30 minute delay = jam packed out of Fresh Pond. The train exploded at Knickerbocker Ave, died and went OOS, I had to walk to Myrtle/Broadway with a block ticket because the B55 couldn't handle the influx. I never made note of the car numbers, so I cannot confirm. The timing of the incident is also a little earlier than I remember. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:41:09 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by monorail on Fri Apr 13 00:35:29 2012. The station platform? Not anymore. And not then, IIRC. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:44:59 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by BLE-NIMX on Fri Apr 13 00:16:11 2012. In 1986, these cars appeared fairly frequently on the R train (Astoria) and the B train occasionally during rush hours. The Broadway and Nassau St R trains often swapped sets in service and I remember riding many trains which ran on the Broadway R during the day and went back to the Nassau St (and ENY) during the afternoon rush. Back then car assignments weren't as strict, especially for the Astoria R train, which used just about every 60' car in the fleet except for the R10 and R38's. This was the original "smorgasboard" line. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:48:03 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Wed Apr 11 21:53:13 2012. I probably wouldn't recognize them clean. They have to be covered in grafitti, have at least 2 broken door panels in each car, have the north terminal signage be blank or wrong (as they ran when the J was cut back from 168th and had no signage for Queens Blvd or 121st St) and they must not exceed 25 MPH at any point on their run. And lots and lots of flat wheels. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Apr 13 13:40:15 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:16:17 2012. An optimistic man, Mr. Greenfield can envision a time when he will no longer be facing a monthly lemon list.Does anyone know when this "lemon list" was stopped? Do old "lemon lists" still exist to anyone's knowledge? --Mark |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 13:55:28 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Mark S. Feinman on Fri Apr 13 13:40:15 2012. I would imagine this practice would have ceased when SMS was introduced. Can't have a lemon list if you never let anything approach lemon status to begin with. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:42:38 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by monorail on Fri Apr 13 00:35:29 2012. Met could never hold 9 60 footers even in the old days, The most it could hold was 7 steels which are the approximate length of 8 60 ft R types which just fit in the station. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:46:57 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by CJ on Thu Apr 12 19:19:09 2012. That shouldn't have mede a difference since the TA specifies the car color in the contract. Also the R-21s and 22s were St Louis like the R-17s so that wouldn't be it. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 15:51:22 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:42:38 2012. I doubt they ever ran trains longer than 6X67 trainsets on the upper Myrtle. The stations at Knickerbocker and Central indicate that the extensions behind each exit were not meant to be used regularly. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:06:26 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 15:51:22 2012. During my time riding Myrtle/Chambers mostly to catch Multis, the longest train I remember seeing was 6 steels even though MA could hold 7. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 16:18:34 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 16:06:26 2012. Which makes sense, because (pre-1969) the subway service north of Broadway was part time and supplementary to the el service that ran down to Jay St and beyond. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 17:10:39 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:48:03 2012. They were fine in the '60s before Chrystie. All they had to do was put them on the Canarsie line when it snowed.Remember many a 40MPH dash down Bway Bklyn express with a crush load in AM rush. I would go in with my mother to work during school recesses. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 13 17:35:06 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:48:03 2012. Don't forget the asphalt patching on the floors! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 17:46:49 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri Apr 13 17:35:06 2012. Oh yeah. And the taped up broken glass on the doors.I may have appreciated these cars more during this era if I was aware of their imminent retirement. Sadly I didn't realize they were retired until they were gone, and even then I had to wait to see of they came back in service after being overhauled. By the fall of 87, I knew they were gone for good. Thankfully, I remember my last ride on them vividly. Late Feb of 87, rode one on the M from Essex St to Dekalb Ave. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 17:50:07 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 13 17:10:39 2012. I rode them towards the end on the yellow B, which required them to climb the Manhattan Bridge and run express to Herald Sq. You could feel the motors struggling. The only time the train got up speed was in the 60th St tunnel, headed to Queens. Though older and (unrebuilt) even crappier looking, the R10's could haul ass on level track. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 18:40:26 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 17:50:07 2012. What about the R10s that got fixed up? How were they? I can vaguely remember seeing one in the bronx in '88, which means they survived longer than the 16s. Never got to ride one unfortunately. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Apr 13 18:43:36 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 12:41:09 2012. didn't say the 'platform'.... |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by monorail on Fri Apr 13 18:44:07 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:42:38 2012. never said the 'platform'.... |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 19:24:16 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by J trainloco on Fri Apr 13 18:40:26 2012. These cars could always move. I never got to ride them when on the A, only the C, which really never allowed them to go all out, except on the Flats and the Cranberry St. tube. They were also the loudest cars I ever rode, and during the summer the decibel level made my ears bleed. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Ble-nimx on Fri Apr 13 19:54:29 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:42:38 2012. When the IRT was down to Dyre Avenues last train running of R21 cars there were two nine car trains stored at Fresh Pond. So there! |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by Ble-nimx on Fri Apr 13 19:58:52 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 13 13:55:28 2012. I have not seem much of deteriorated motor lead wiring since SMS, only proving to me they plain old neglected those cars knowing they were being retired. I found a pinched main light ballast wire that blew the ML1 fuse they just ran a sheet screw through on laziness. |
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Re: R16 Scenes |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 13 20:04:04 2012, in response to Re: R16 Scenes, posted by randyo on Fri Apr 13 15:42:38 2012. The old platform could do a little over 8, but there was enough room at the interlocking to fit 10 cars over the points with about three inches to spare IF you touched the bumper. :) |
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