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F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 01:09:31 2012

With the maintenance closure of the Manhattan-bound local track between Parsons Blvd and 75 Av, I decided to ride on the seldom-used express track during the extended GO, so I took the Q25 to Parsons Blvd and caught an F at around 1 pm. The train arrived on the local track from 169 St, and then switched to the express track after Parsons Blvd. (The local track beyond the switch has a barrier across it with red lanterns, and has been fenced off from the express track, so there is no adjacent-track flagging requiring slow speeds through the area on the express track.)

Switching to the express track, we couldn't pick up speed until the R 10 resume sign, almost at Sutphin Blvd. Then, just past Sutphin, there is a 30 mph speed limit because of the upcoming curve, which my t/o obeyed, and maintained that speed all the way past Van Wyck Blvd, when we met yellow and red signals from an E train ahead, so we crept into Union Tpke.

Leaving Union Tpke (with a green signal), there is another 30 mph speed limit until past 75 Av, when the limit becomes 40 approaching 71-Continental Av.

So all in all, it was not the breath-taking experience I was hoping for and expecting from others' descriptions of that stretch of express track.

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(1150162)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Apr 11 04:40:00 2012, in response to F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 01:09:31 2012.

When this G/O is over, ride an (E) train from Jamaica - 179 Street.

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(1150163)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 04:43:19 2012, in response to F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 01:09:31 2012.

You should know by now it is not rapid transit anymore.

Between the trains being slowed down, the place being grade timed to death, where the GT read 20 it really is 10...........

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(G00GLE)

Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming


(1150169)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 07:55:34 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Apr 11 04:40:00 2012.

Agreed! The (E) express from 179 (especially in the afternoon) is almost like all expresses used to be before NYCT took the "rapid" out of "rapid transit"...LOL!

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(1150171)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 08:11:07 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 04:43:19 2012.

+1

Where a local can move along faster than a express..

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(1150172)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:27:54 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 08:11:07 2012.

For REAL! Many is the time I've been on a downtown (E) at 42 Street, and an (A) pulls in on the express track. Both trains close their doors at the same tome, wheels turning at the same time. I always stay on the (E) instead of changing to the express, and it almost always pays off--even with the stop at 23 Street--I get to W 4th before the (A)...

(Yes, I know, IND engineers designed the 8th Avenue line south of 59th Street to deliberately keep riders from changing between locals and expresses, but still...

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(1150174)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 08:29:56 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:27:54 2012.

You think thats bad??

Try Northbound..

Im on the Charlie on the weekends when there isnt some kind of silly G.O in place...

Apple arrives at West 4th N/B we make a connection...

We BOTH arrive at 59th street N/B...

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(1150175)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:38:28 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 08:29:56 2012.

Yup yup. More timers on the NB express track between 14th and 59th--and this is on mostly tangent track--keeps the (A) from doing any better than the locals...

I remember flying along between 14th and Penn before they slowed the (A) down through 23rd Street NB...thirty years ago...

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(1150176)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by TERRapin station on Wed Apr 11 08:44:20 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:27:54 2012.

Huh?????? There's only one local stop along that stretch! Why wouldn't the local sometimes/often get there first, especially considering all the other factors you haven't thought of???? Your example is terrible.

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(1150178)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:56:29 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by TERRapin station on Wed Apr 11 08:44:20 2012.

Yes, there's only one local stop along that stretch. That is exactly what I wrote. But don't you think a train that makes an additional stop along the way, would generally arrive at a further stop an express on the adjacent track leaving at the same time as the local?

Yes, there might be more traffic on the express track. Yes, there might be more passengers holding doors on the express, delaying it. Yes, there might be temporary speed restrictions on the express track...but I've seen the (E) arrive before the (A) when none of these things were occurring. No heavy passenger loading on either train, no GOs or speed restrictions, no late leader slowing down the (A). I've seen this quite often, too.

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(1150204)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Apr 11 13:08:48 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:56:29 2012.

Yes, there might be temporary speed restrictions on the express track...but I've seen the (E) arrive before the (A) when none of these things were occurring. No heavy passenger loading on either train, no GOs or speed restrictions, no late leader slowing down the (A). I've seen this quite often, too.


The E only goes to WTC, the A goes to Brooklyn. Therefore, (outside of the AM rush southbound where many LIRR/NJT Penn customers use the A/C/E to ride downtown.) the A is more likely to have a longer dwell time at 34th Street and 14th Street stations than the E. Remember, passengers enter AND exit on the A but most passengers on the E are exiting customers. Also, unless I am mistaken - - there IS a timer on the southbound A between 34 and 23 stations.



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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 13:14:55 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Apr 11 13:08:48 2012.

No timer southbound on A3 trk between 34th and 23rd streets David. They got a few of em on A4 trk though same area.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Apr 11 13:18:33 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 13:14:55 2012.

I know that A4 has them, thanks.

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(1150218)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Railman718 on Wed Apr 11 14:08:14 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Newkirk Plaza David on Wed Apr 11 13:18:33 2012.

Welcome brother.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by N6 Limited on Wed Apr 11 15:03:07 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 07:55:34 2012.

Yep, I've been on the E Hillside Express, it's pretty quick.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Apr 11 21:02:10 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:56:29 2012.

For good old fashion IND running speed, even with R68 equipment, take a run on the 6th Avenue Express. Especially southbound with a little rock n' roll as you pass by the diamond @ W4th.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by LRG5784 on Wed Apr 11 21:06:49 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by G1Ravage on Wed Apr 11 04:40:00 2012.

What times to the (E)s from 179th Street begin during the rush hours? Also IIRC, do the (E)s leave 179th Street during the a.m. AND p.m. rush, and the (E)s go to 179th ONLY during the p.m. rush?

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(1150301)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 21:29:01 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:38:28 2012.

More than 30 years ago. When I worked on 23 St in the mid-70s, I used to wait on the uptown platform for the E and I noticed that the downtown A's flew by while the uptown A's crawled by.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 22:18:45 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Apr 11 21:02:10 2012.

...or the S/B A entering 42nd street.

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(1150307)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 22:24:24 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Apr 11 04:43:19 2012.

Even if a timer is posted at 20 and actually clears at 20, how many T/O's actually operate through it as such? To do so would mean that the T/O would have to operate the train straight into a red signal with a lunar aspect at the posted speed and never see it change from red to yellow. Most T/Os actually let it clear in a few yards ahead of them, and many operate as though the train will need to be stopped at the red signal.

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(1150311)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Joe Saitta on Wed Apr 11 23:03:01 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 22:24:24 2012.

The official rule is "be prepared to stop."

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(1150317)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Apr 12 00:16:59 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by LRG5784 on Wed Apr 11 21:06:49 2012.

E trains are scheduled to depart 179th Street at the following times:

07:12
07:31
07:51
08:11
15:57
16:16
16:36

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(1150318)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Apr 12 00:21:20 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by J trainloco on Wed Apr 11 22:24:24 2012.

The IND almost never uses red/lunar GTs.

The most common GTs used on the IND are used in conjunction with the Yellow/S or Yellow/D indications.

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(1150319)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 12 00:35:32 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Apr 11 08:38:28 2012.

I found that it actually varied some (at least it did 20+ years ago). During non-rush hours the uptown A was so slow skipping 23rd that the local could actually stop, pickup/discharge passengers, then start, all before the A finally left. The A would almost come to a stop, it went that slow. During rush hours, OTH, the A flew through 23rd. The downtown A was also pretty decent, though it frequently tends to wait for the local.

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(1150636)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Kriston Lewis on Fri Apr 13 20:37:06 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by HANDBRAKE on Wed Apr 11 21:02:10 2012.



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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Train2104 on Fri Apr 13 20:56:49 2012, in response to F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 01:09:31 2012.

The closure ended 62 hours early at 1500 today.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 13 22:25:47 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Apr 12 00:16:59 2012.

16:36

LOL

your pal,
Fred

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(1150661)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by G1Ravage on Sat Apr 14 00:26:32 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 13 22:25:47 2012.

1636+, IMO.

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by merrick1 on Sat Apr 14 07:37:51 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by Fred G on Fri Apr 13 22:25:47 2012.

I used to take an N train that was scheduled to leave at 7:37 1/2 and it usually did.

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(1151048)

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sun Apr 15 17:04:42 2012, in response to F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by gbs on Wed Apr 11 01:09:31 2012.

They tended to go faster in the other direction.

-w-

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Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming

Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Apr 15 18:15:26 2012, in response to Re: F Hillside express is underwhelming, posted by R36 #9346 on Thu Apr 12 00:16:59 2012.

Wow, there's E's that leave 179th in the PM Rush? Awesome!

I always wanted to ride a train on the S/B express track between 179th & Suphtin Blvd.

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