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| DMU's for LIRR are funded (1147507) | |
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| (1147574) | |
Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 30 21:46:49 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. What is the current plan for such a service? Would it mean the end for all through trains? DMU shuttles at regular intervals are a good idea, especially if a bus service is integrated with it, but I hope they'll keep a few DM trains to Jamaica/Penn for each line. |
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| (1147576) | |
Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by JBar387 on Fri Mar 30 21:57:29 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. Linked For us lazy folk! LoL! |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by JBar387 on Fri Mar 30 21:57:29 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. Linked For us lazy folk! LoL! |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 08:26:41 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by J trainloco on Fri Mar 30 21:46:49 2012. Definitely get the Super Steels/Bi-levels off the Greenport Scoot, perhaps replace the 3 car set on the South Shore, but then additional frequencies for both lines as shuttles.It would be something like they had running a few years ago east of Speonk. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Mar 31 08:41:51 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. Probably based on the M-7 carbodyOr maybe based on an off the shelf DMU design. Bill Newkirk |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 31 08:51:42 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Mar 31 08:41:51 2012. Off shelf did not work for Amtrak, testing most succesfull DMU The Danish Flexliner in form of two Israeli RR units brought out several defficiencies.Underpowered for US use, Detection problems due to light weight. engine problems due to high HVAC demand. The US is not Europe and by time you make a DMU comply with US standards it is no longer the succes it was . |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sat Mar 31 09:37:20 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 31 08:51:42 2012. Is HVAC demand higher is the US than in Israel? |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 31 09:52:38 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by merrick1 on Sat Mar 31 09:37:20 2012. well the IC-3's made for Israel could ot keep up with demand in US westcoast service, it overloaded the engines.btw Israeli RR tool IC-3 (flexliners) out of service in 2010 because of serious fire. http://www.trainweb.com/accommod/flexline.htm for plenty info. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 31 10:01:35 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 08:26:41 2012. It would make loads of sense on the greenport line. Onthe montauk branch...perhaps during the day. Weekends and rush hours regular trains make more sense on the montauk branch. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:31:29 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Sat Mar 31 10:01:35 2012. There's a 3 car South Shore train, which even cycles into Hunterspoint Av in the AM rush, and is adeqaute most of the time, is supposed to be made 4 cars in the summer, and still inadequate for some runs at that.They do have a cab car shortage. Replacing the short consists with DMU's ouught to alleviate that. Last summer, I saw a 3 car Oyster Bay train with no cab car and 2 DE's. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by aem7ac on Sat Mar 31 10:31:47 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. I can't believe this. It would ruin the Montauk Line in order to save the Greenport Line. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:35:51 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Mar 31 08:41:51 2012. There really is nothing off the shelf. You gotta start somewhere.Trouble is the M-7 / M-8 is so damned heavy, they should look at the Silverliner V. (VIA Rail is going to need an RDC replacement someday too). I took a tour of the Rotem shop last weekend. Even the single unit cars with 25 cycle transformer is "only" 147K lbs. The latter would have put a single car from a married pair M-8 over 80 tons. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 31 10:42:37 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:35:51 2012. The Sprinter is ready to go. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:43:20 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by aem7ac on Sat Mar 31 10:31:47 2012. How does additional DMU trips on the Montauk ruin it ?The service east of Speonk now is rather unsuable. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:45:03 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 31 10:42:37 2012. I think they want a common carbody with the M-7. There would be some parts commonality, i.e. trucks and interior appointments.Can the Sprinter handle high-level platforms ? |
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Re: DMUs for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 31 11:59:52 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by mkeit on Sat Mar 31 10:42:37 2012. What Sprinter is that? |
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Re: DMUs for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 31 12:13:23 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:45:03 2012. I don't know what he meant by "(t)he Sprinter is ready to go". Does he mean Siemens Desiro DLRVs such as on San Diego's Sprinter, which operate in a similar arrangement as on NJT's "River Line" (passenger only during the day, noisy freights at night)? (The only other "Sprinter" is going to be Amtrak's ACS-64 replacement for the AEM-7.)Desiros aren't wide or tall enough for US high platforms, even the high-platform versions. They are also not compatible with either AAR or FRA crashworthiness standards from any era. SD Sprinter is currently using folding gangways on their station platforms to accommodate freight operations . . . |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 31 13:01:46 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Newkirk Images on Sat Mar 31 08:41:51 2012. What "off-the-shelf DMU design"? There aren't any. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Mar 31 16:36:09 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. Oh if only they were going to get the Turbostar. But oh well, I guess this is the beginning of the end of the LIRR's East End services. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sat Mar 31 17:56:19 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Mar 31 08:51:42 2012. Unless DCTA gets that waiver for Stadtler DMUs... |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:54:03 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Sat Mar 31 16:36:09 2012. How is adding more trains the beginning of the end ? |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 00:53:31 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 21:54:03 2012. They already threaten to cut the service at the drop of a hat. How is adding a small fleet of expensive, unique vehicles going to improve the operating economics of the line in any way? What are they going to do if ridership doesn't grow as predicted, sell the DMUs to Sonoma and Marin counties?At least with electrification there'd be some guarantee of the operational cost being reduced as the vehicles would be shared with the much larger fleet operating over the one time diesel lines. Instead we get ANOTHER small fleet which will cost that much more to operate, and we get no infrastructure that may have provided political staying power. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:28:14 2012, in response to DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Fri Mar 30 17:14:15 2012. Cool! Hopefully they will be more reliable than the DE30 locomotives. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:31:04 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sat Mar 31 10:31:29 2012. Plus whenever the Main Line is shut down between Hicksville and Jamaica, the Greenport line always has to be bustituted so they could run the cars and locomotives on the Central Branch. |
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| (1147922) | |
Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 08:15:18 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by J trainloco on Sat Mar 31 17:56:19 2012. they won't, cause the lines they will be used on are part of general railway system of US and will also see regular trains. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 1 10:52:19 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 08:15:18 2012. Umm, the factors you listed are exactly the reason they are applying for a waiver. We don't know how the FRA will rule. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 10:56:44 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by J trainloco on Sun Apr 1 10:52:19 2012. Seperation can only happen wth freight during night hours.if any passenger train on that line will be a FRA standard train than all will have to comply with FRA standards. European trains will probably not be heavy enough to shunt rail on Amercan signalling including ACSES as required by 2015. As for Stadler cars , I don't believe their high platform capble as floor height is at European platform height or about a foot lower than LIRR's |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 11:40:35 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 00:53:31 2012. There not going to electrify. If anything it is a political necessity to collect taxes to run more trains. Irreleavnt and useless service to the East End cost them the Payroll Tax, which is now back-filled with debt financing, a.k.a fare backed bonds. So everyone has already been screwed. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 1 14:31:06 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Mar 31 13:01:46 2012. I'd just like to see them come up with a DMU that works. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 14:37:48 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 1 14:31:06 2012. They could dust of the old RDC drawings, as long as they do not add to many gadgets, replace the engies with a more eco friendly engine and AC generator replace cardan/spicer drive with AC traction motor.and you would have good concept, AC propulsion packages are relatively light. Only change needed in car would be corner post in cab design and ditchlights. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 14:52:53 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 14:37:48 2012. They did dusted off RDC design with the SPV and it was an abortion.Of course Metro North and Amtrak resorted to stupidity like disconnecting crankshafts and depowering trucks to avoid manning with a fireman. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 1 15:03:10 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 14:37:48 2012. "AC generator replace cardan/spicer drive with AC traction motor."Might as well start with a clean sheet of paper. I do agree that a Diesel-ELECTRIC DMU is the way to go. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 15:10:36 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 14:52:53 2012. The SPV was not even close to simplicity of the RDC, Joe I worked both as Mechanic and operated them.biggest problem of SPV to much over engineering and to advanced in both air brake/throttle design and electonics in propulsion. having a single source power system like APU did not help either. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 15:15:58 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 14:52:53 2012. the removal of outside axles had nothing to do with failure of car.and your confusing driveshafts with crankshafts. both inner axles in each truck remained powered just like a RDC. as for fireman issue, never underestimate stupidity of railroads when ordereing things, the weight on drivers was a known issue. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 16:02:26 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 10:56:44 2012. Seperation can only happen wth freight during night hours.Please read the Caltrain waiver. if any passenger train on that line will be a FRA standard train than all will have to comply with FRA standards. No, they don't. The waiver explicitly allows non-time separated shared freight/passenger operation on the southern 5 miles between Tamien and Sunnyvale. Furthermore it allows shared operation with compatible and non-compatible passenger rolling stock along the entire length of the line. By comparison Denton's waiver is simplicity unto itself. European trains will probably not be heavy enough to shunt rail on Amercan signalling including ACSES as required by 2015. The M1s were lighter than most post-Euro III DMUs so that statement, while it may have been valid for the Flexliner, is fairly ridiculous for anything that'd be ordered today. As for Stadler cars , I don't believe their high platform capble as floor height is at European platform height or about a foot lower than LIRR's So don't order Stadlers, order Bombardier RegioSwingers. They have a 48 inch floor height, so once the stairs and long doors are removed they'd provide absolutely level high platform boarding. At 128 tons per 170 foot long pair they're almost identical to the M7s in terms of weight, but still significantly lighter than the proposed DMU variants of the MTA's ubiquitous EMU. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 16:37:10 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Rockparkman on Sun Apr 1 15:03:10 2012. Old BritRail had one. I think is was their Class 205. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 16:41:00 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 11:40:35 2012. They're going to extend the electrification to some point on the Greenport Line at some point in the future. The diesel territory will continue to shrink until the operation of the tiny DMU fleet cannot be economically justified. At that point they'll have to make a decision as to whether they'd rather just electrify the line or cut the service.That's why it is crucial to the survival of the eastern end lines that any extension of the electrification be undertaken with high voltage AC OHLE. A third rail electrification could never be justified to the eastern end of LI, but with the lower marginal cost of an AC electrification the possibility would at least exist. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 16:51:02 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 15:15:58 2012. It was 30 years ago, but I thought it was the 4 powered axles that caused need for fireman, as they regarded it as an ordinary road-switcher, so they de-powered a truck ? |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by merrick1 on Sun Apr 1 17:05:00 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 16:51:02 2012. I think the issue was weight on drivers. They de-powered one axle on each truck and cut the weight on drivers in half. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:10:37 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 16:41:00 2012. They have no plans to do any electrifying on the South Shore, which will eat up 2 train-sets (6 cars).Even with Yaphank electrified, they will still need a set to go to Greenport. (2 cars) There is a 3 car consist to Oyster Bay . They will never electrify that (3 cars). They are a way to restore weekend service to West Hempstead - better than a 6 car M-7 for 40 people per trip. (2 cars). That's 132 cars needed, plus several more needed for shop margin, and that'll be the case for 20 years. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:12:50 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:10:37 2012. I meant 13 cars. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Apr 1 17:21:25 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 16:02:26 2012. Im still amazed that someone like you, who has all the answers still is not employed or a high honcho at some railroad !!! |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Apr 2 01:21:05 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Joe V on Sun Apr 1 17:10:37 2012. That's 13 cars needed, plus several more needed for shop margin, and that'll be the case for 20 yearsExactly, 15 to 17 unique cars purchased at a premium price and to be maintained within a fleet which will inevitably become even more predominantly electric over their life. More than likely it'd be cheaper over the lifetime of the DMUs to simply embark on an aggressive electrification program and reap the benefits of maintaining one big fleet of EMUs with only minor variations. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 2 06:08:58 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Apr 1 05:28:14 2012. Almost anything would be more reliable than the DE/DM30's.... |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Apr 2 07:18:01 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Sun Apr 1 00:53:31 2012. They should just transfer some de-motored M2's and combine them with a diesel. I know where they could probably find some P40 Gennies :) Maybe even a BL20GH or 2 lol.your pal, Fred |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 2 12:40:33 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Apr 2 06:08:58 2012. Don't say that. We've yet to see how reliable the ALP-45DP is going to be . . . |
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Re: DMUs for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 2 13:12:50 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by aem7ac on Sat Mar 31 10:31:47 2012. Who's to say it would "save" either line . . . ? |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 17:31:34 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by WillD on Mon Apr 2 01:21:05 2012. Well they are not going to embark on an aggressive electrification program. In the late 1980's, the number to do so from Huntington to Port Jeff was $300M. As much as I think they should do so, I am not pacing the floor. |
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Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Apr 2 17:34:13 2012, in response to Re: DMU's for LIRR are funded, posted by Fred G on Mon Apr 2 07:18:01 2012. You'd have to HEP them with some odd-ball power car, like the old LIRR power packs. Those car wanted 650v DC, not 480v AC, for their motor-alternators.Otherwise, you'd have an expensive conversion like NJT did to the Arrow-I, and it was never considered a great car. |
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