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(1145308)

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Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; "5 Stop Fan Club"

Posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Mar 18 19:42:09 2012

No train, no gain.

Outraged politicians and business owners are fighting to keep the MTA from cutting five G train stops, claiming the closures will hurt Brooklyn businesses.

"Transportation is just as important in Brooklyn as it is in Manhattan,” said Public Advocate Bill de Blasio, who rallied with other members of his "5 Stop Fan Club” in Windsor Terrace Sunday. “Leave these stops where they are.”

The MTA lengthened the G line by five stations in 2009 as it rehabilitated the Culver Viaduct.

But unless the agency makes the changes permanent, G train service to those stations will be cut once the project is complete in late 2013 or early 2014.

Brooklyn Borough President Marty Markowitz called the potential closures “meshuganah."

And several straphangers at one of the added stops, at 4th Avenue and 9th St., said the MTA would hurt riders by shortening the line.

“I understand they have budgets and everything but they can't just shut out people who live further away,” said Fran Riley, 41, who works as a courier in Bay Ridge. “The G is definitely needed."

Gorge Luis Cordero, a 53-year-old artist from Carroll Gardens, also called the extension vital.

"The extension is a minor inconvenience for them to keep open, but it's a major convenience for the public, especially on the weekends when service is slower," Cordero said.

An MTA spokeswoman said a decision about whether to cut the stops won’t be made until the viaduct project is finished.
---http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/straphangers-pols-extra-g-train-stops-article-1.1041826#ixzz1pVzMMf7i

(1145332)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Italianstallion on Sun Mar 18 21:18:50 2012, in response to Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; "5 Stop Fan Club", posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Mar 18 19:42:09 2012.

Amazing how a train vilified for years as going nowhere now is lionized as the solution to all our transit problems, LOL.

(1145367)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 01:44:01 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Italianstallion on Sun Mar 18 21:18:50 2012.

Im wondering how foolish people can be to even suggest that the line goes "nowhere"..

If it takes you where you want to go..how can getting SOMEWHERE[your destination] be going NOWHERE?

(1145368)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 01:50:04 2012, in response to Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; "5 Stop Fan Club", posted by Gold_12TH on Sun Mar 18 19:42:09 2012.

they cant be for real..
they cut the QB section completely after running it half ass for a few years..now they wanna take the little extension away after getting riders use to it?

Im telling you..they are going to push us to the very end one of these days where as WE are gonna say FUCK IT..AND FUCK EM..THE MTA HAS TO GO..LETEM RUN THE LIRR LIKE THEY WANT..GET OUR SUBWAY OUTTA THEIR CONTROL BEFORE WE HAVE NUTHIN LEFT..

(1145373)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 19 04:20:41 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 01:50:04 2012.

This scenario is a great example of while there wasn't a huge pull to ask for this before it was given, now that people got a taste for this better service, it will be hard to take it away from them. Smith 9th is a ridiculous terminal in the middle of no where, the current terminal at Church makes much more sense.
Actually, this whole thing is similar to the M train. Not many people were pushing for midtown service (the VAST majority of people didn't even have any idea it was even possible), now that they were given the better service and they have a taste for it, it would be very hard to take it away.
The G train change is a little different as it was meant as temporary from the beginning, but even so, it's such a better service now, and truly, more important than the Queens Blvd service was.

(1145403)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Mar 19 04:20:41 2012.

Makes me wonder why when the line was originally built, that 4th Avenue wasn't the EXPRESS station (with turnaround capabilities as exist at Smith-9th) and 7th Avenue a LOCAL stop - the BMT line had been there since about 1915. Some things just don't make much sense.

wayne


(1145405)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Dan on Mon Mar 19 14:04:08 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012.

7th Avenue was always a busy commercial street in Park Slope, even back in the 1930s.

Link to the "fan club": https://www.facebook.com/5stopfanclub

(1145450)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 19:30:17 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 01:50:04 2012.

agreed. Finally the G is getting the attention it deserves. If only there's support for G QB weekend/late night service...

(1145451)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 19:33:37 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012.

That is what I keep saying. Even with the recent renovations, they could have demolished the side platforms and build the new ones over the local tracks and then build the local tracks where the side platforms used to be (maybe need to have the switches located further west of the station). That way the G can end at 4th av and everyone: MTA (shortened line) and riders (connection to R) would be happy.

(1145462)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 19 20:21:24 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012.

Because, back then, the IND was built pre-unification and 9th St on the 4th ave line was a local stop, while the "D" and later "F" trains made all stops between Church and Jay. With a few exceptions, such as the "Kings Highway", "F" train service, years ago.. Besides, the express and local tracks diverge east of the 7th ave station, so it was better to put the express stop there- for future use, if any.

(1145465)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 19 20:27:01 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 19 20:21:24 2012.

But, getting back to the original thread, I would love to see the "G" go back to Forest Hills and have an "S" shuttle at night between 57th/7Av and 21st/Queensboro. That way, we could get our "F" train back as an express through Queens Plaza, like the good old days. Why do we HAVE to have 63rd St service at night from the Queens main line?

(1145469)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Mar 19 20:38:00 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 19 20:27:01 2012.

The G's north terminal @ CSQ is permanent no matter what happens. CTL cannot handle 3 services or send the R or M further. The G would need longer trains and more trainsets and whatever else gets extended would need more trainsets as well.

What you would love to see will cost too much money.

(1145471)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by R30A on Mon Mar 19 20:41:23 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 19:33:37 2012.

A lot cheaper would be to just put in a crossover north of 7th Ave, and terminate the G there.

That said, it is by far more sensible, and probably a lot cheaper to just run the G to Church.

(1145477)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 22:01:48 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 19:33:37 2012.

its cheaper to operate to Church..everyones happy.

(1145479)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 22:02:21 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by R30A on Mon Mar 19 20:41:23 2012.

Good point.

Agreed 100%

(1145489)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 23:54:35 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 19 22:01:48 2012.

I agree, but since they were basically rebuilding the platforms at 4th av, that seemed to be the best time to rebuild the station as the platforms were going to be 'gutted' anyway. But now it's too late as the platforms are rebuilt. I am hopeful the G stays heading to Church.

(1145490)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Marc A. Rivlin on Mon Mar 19 23:54:50 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012.

There is some evidence that, at some point, the plan was to make 7th Avenue local and 4th Avenue express. The 1929 Belcher Hyde maps of Brooklyn show the text "NEW SUBWAY TO BE CONSTRUCTED" along the IND South Brooklyn Line route. Plate 53 shows "NEW SUBWAY EXPRESS STATION" at the intersection of 4th Avenue and 10th Street, while Plate 46 shows "NEW LOCAL SUBWAY STATION" on 9th Street between 7th and 8th Avenues. Given that these are land/insurance maps, I don't know how much authority to put in what is written. Some planning maps for the IND would be nice to confirm or refute.

(1145511)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 20 07:34:32 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Mar 19 13:49:08 2012.

The whole "Screw the BMT" IND mindset I guess. But yes, it would have made much more sense. 4th Av would have been a decent terminal (even if not ideal), but Smith-9th never made sense.

(1145525)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by LA Scott on Tue Mar 20 09:11:13 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by R30A on Mon Mar 19 20:41:23 2012.

Installing 3 new sets of switches in an existing tunnel is a big capital project, since you have to remove a bunch of columns that are holding up the tunnel roof.
Depending on the placement of the switches, some of those columns are under a large residential building, not just the street.

(1145565)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 20 14:25:58 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Mar 20 07:34:32 2012.

Imo, if the IND really wanted to screw the IND, they would've made 4th av an express to draw riders away from the BMT local.
=
Why 59th-CC and Roosevelt Av are express stations for the IND and here at 4th av is a local just doesn't add up.
IND also has express stops that are back to back like on 6th av. If they really had to have 7th av as an express, why not make 4th av an express as well?

(1145600)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 20 19:32:28 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by grand concourse on Mon Mar 19 19:33:37 2012.

You're taking a very simplistic view of construction. Relocating the platforms would mean relocation of vertical circulation, as well as potential need to reconfigure substantial amounts of structure to carry trains where platforms once sat. It's not that easy.

(1145620)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 20 21:45:33 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by J trainloco on Tue Mar 20 19:32:28 2012.

Ok, understood. But it still doesn't make sense why the IND made it a local only stop.

(1145651)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 21 01:45:41 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Mar 19 20:38:00 2012.

What about the "G" going to Forest Hills when the "M" is not running. Have the "E" and "F" run expresses with the "G" as the local- like the old days. Have the "Q" terminate at 21st/Queensboro at night. That 63rd St tunnel did nothing but screw up service!

(1145653)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 21 01:53:53 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 20 21:45:33 2012.

The IND would have been uninterested in transfers between divisions and more interested in where the more important locations for stops would be. 7th Avenue is a more important commercial street at 9th Street than 4th, despite the subway underneath 4th. This was true even in 1933. 7th Avenue had a trolley while 4th didn't.

(1145654)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 21 02:00:26 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by grand concourse on Tue Mar 20 14:25:58 2012.

59th as a local stop wouldn't make sense given that it's where the CPW line diverges to 6th and 8th.

Where would you put the express between Queens Plaza and 71st? At 65th Street? At Elmhurst Avenue?

The back to back express stops are all in the highly dense CBD. How hard is to understand this? You people can make all of the "creative" fantasy plans but can't think of how subway lines realistically serve communities and commerce.

(1145658)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 21 02:07:45 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 21 01:45:41 2012.

The 63rd Street tunnel removed the G from the QB local and replaced it with a train actually useful to most of of the passengers there.

(1145661)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 21 02:40:50 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Elkeeper on Mon Mar 19 20:27:01 2012.

The 63rd st tunnel/line is needed.



(1145695)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 21 11:30:41 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 21 01:53:53 2012.

I see, thanks.

(1145696)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 21 11:35:29 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Mar 21 02:00:26 2012.

Ok, yes my example was too general and 'apples to oranges'.

There are back to back to back express stops in the Bronx from Bedford to Fordham and then Tremont (with the next stop in Manhattan at 145th). So why not back to back with 4th av and 7th av?

(1145697)

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Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club''

Posted by grand concourse on Wed Mar 21 11:36:38 2012, in response to Re: Riders & pols: We want to keep extra (G) train stops; ''5 Stop Fan Club'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 21 01:45:41 2012.

For weekends and late nights when there is only one local, the G should run on QB.


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