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ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012

Since American Railfans seem to be really lazy (especially compared to the Brits, which have totally defined every rail subject in their own terms BTW) I just had to construct an article on the former New York Central series of ACMU's from scratch despite the fact that others have had over a DECADE to write ANYTHING! >:-O

Anyway, feel free to check it out and if you find anything wrong...fix it! You have the power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACMU

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Feb 23 08:08:10 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

No cab signaling until 1983? Is that correct.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 08:51:24 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Fulton Frank on Thu Feb 23 08:08:10 2012.

Should be seeing as how Metro North didn't install cab signaling until the 1980's. Cab signals were a PRR thing, not New York Central.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 23 10:19:57 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

I made a few minor fixes to grammar and punctuation, and one other change - changing "motorman" to "engineer". :)

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 10:32:24 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 08:51:24 2012.

Metro North isn't built and may not be. Metro-North (hyphenated) is another story . . .

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dave on Thu Feb 23 10:36:51 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

Nice, Mike. The "similar MU's" link doesn't find anything.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 10:39:11 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dave on Thu Feb 23 10:36:51 2012.

. . . and the MP72s weren't similar, TTBOMK.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Michael Wares on Thu Feb 23 11:01:16 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

" The ends of the cars all had a single window on the engineer's side and another window on the storm door."

The 4500s also had a window on the left side of the end.

http://www.ominousweather.com/images1/NYCMUnew1950.jpg

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:24:20 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Feb 23 10:19:57 2012.

I have seen NY Central area sources that call the position Motormen because in the age of steam working a (Steam) Engine and working an MU were treated as different crafts.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:30:57 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Michael Wares on Thu Feb 23 11:01:16 2012.

THanks.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:33:47 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dave on Thu Feb 23 10:36:51 2012.

Yeah I was going to do a page on the MP75 zip cars (or MP72's) next...unless anyone else wants to start it.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:46:14 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dave on Thu Feb 23 10:36:51 2012.

If the MP75 Zip Cars were ACMU clones I should just add them to that page. Thoughts?

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 18:54:05 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

It seemed a waste to scrap the 1950 cars at 20 years of age. Then there would have been need for only 78 M-1a cars, not 178.

Ronan got 60 rid of LIRR double-decker and 20 MP70T cars scrapped that were built between 1947 and 1953 by 1972, but the former had aluminitus corrosion, and the latter did not have air conditioning.

The original ACMU's had AC.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 18:57:22 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 18:54:05 2012.

It seemed a waste to scrap the 1950 cars at 20 years of age

It was a waste. Government waste had a quick beginning indeed.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 19:10:06 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 18:57:22 2012.

Big difference between LIRR and pre-MN is that a higher percentage of the pre-MTA MU fleet on MN was post war, as opposed to the LIRR.

It took just 500 M-1's to finish off the MP54, but the next 120 got rid of 60 MP70's, 20 MP70T's, and 44 T72 converted to push pull.

The Vickers/GE order of 150 M-1's in 1972 finished off the 128 remaining MP72 and MP75 cars, which got gradually got converted to push pull until 1979.

MTA needed just 78 M1a's to replace pre-war MU's, then got another 100 to replace the 1000's, but never bothered replacing the 1100's (until the M-7), but had they done so with the M-1a, it would have been another 80 or so.

So 65% of the LIRR M-1's were needed to replace pre-war MU's.

Had MTA bought sufficient M-1a's to replace everything as they did on the LIRR, there would have been about 258 M1a's, but only 30% needed to replace pre-war cars. That is probably why they got ruthless with the 1000s - make a bigger new car splash.




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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 19:17:58 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:46:14 2012.

I don't think Macy's checked with Gimbels. IOW, they weren't clones.

The MP75 was an update to the MP72 and MP70T, were Westinghouse and Pullman-Standard. (The MP75 then lead to the Comet-I). The MP75's were built in Chicago, the prior cars in Osgood-Bradley plant in Worcester, and all MP54-compatible. They were more like the NH Washboards, if you look at the interior appointments and Westinghouse controllers. You can also think of the Washboards as fore-runners of the MP72, and successors to the American Flyer cars.

The ACMU's were a different species totally, not compatible with anything pre-war, the LIRR cars, or the Washboards, were built by GE and either St Louis or Pullman.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Feb 23 19:28:22 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

Nice!

I have a list I kept of which cars had which type of seat. The ones below 1150 could have either red or maroon seats, and they would "flip" to reverse like the Silverliner II seats once did. 1151+ had a sliding type similar to NJT's Comet II-IV.

I would contribute it but the only citation is my own observation of looking at the cars in 1999-2000... and the list is missing a few units.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 19:42:04 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 19:10:06 2012.

And we're still paying for it almost a half-century later.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:06:24 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 10:32:24 2012.

yeah yeah yeah old news olog we know the Irish plagerize.


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Thu Feb 23 20:22:33 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 19:17:58 2012.

"The ACMU's were a different species totally, not compatible with anything pre-war, the LIRR cars, or the Washboards"

Thats an excellent point. The zip cars of the LIRR were designed to MU with the oldest equiptment that they had on the road at the time. NYC ACMUs were to run amongst themselves never intending to mate with any of their pre war equiptment.
In hindsight, maybe the LIRR did the right thing having any equiptment pre M-1 run together.
Made for intersting consists to say the least.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:25:23 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:06:24 2012.

Depends on what you mean. Dublin's DART and Dallas' DART started the same year, after all. And there's no hyphen in "Metro North", like I said.

 


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:41:56 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Thu Feb 23 20:22:33 2012.

I got a video of ACMU's and older cars and celetory cars all in one train at Marble hill in several shots.
Forgot who made the Video .




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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:42:52 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:25:23 2012.

There is no railroad in Irish Metro North so what the fuck gives.
other than you immitating a certain unibrow.


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:46:33 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Thu Feb 23 11:46:14 2012.

You forgot to mention the Two ACMU's converted to AC ACMU's by GE in 1990, the 1185 and 1164 were Metro Norths first AC propulsion units. they ended after 3 years to be unpowered cars with all traction gear removed.


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 20:46:49 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:42:52 2012.

There is no railroad in Irish Metro North

Not yet at least. But you're the one complaining about it in spite of it all . . .

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 22:36:20 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

Mike: First thank you for the page on the ACMU's. I'm sure that it took a lot of work. I came to depend upon those cars when I was a tower director at HM. Unlike the M-1A's which needed a lot of coaxing to get out of the yard in the morning the MU's were always ready to go.

You may recall that two of the 1000 series cars lasted longer than the others. They were 1037 and 1077 IIRC. 1037 was the Commuter Club Car assigned to one of the Tarrytown - GCT runs while 1077 was fitted with a large door and used as a supply car at the Harmon shops.

Larry, RedbirdR33


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 24 01:59:28 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 23 10:32:24 2012.

I added hyphens to all the "Metro North" references in that article.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Feb 24 02:24:35 2012, in response to ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Wed Feb 22 23:40:35 2012.

Good work on that. Just voted up your entry over there. :)

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dave on Fri Feb 24 05:46:03 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:41:56 2012.

Can you post it?

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 24 08:43:27 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 23 19:17:58 2012.

Someone on Railroad.net indicated that the carbodies and trucks between the two classes were identical. The current standard on Wikipedia is to group families of MUs and locomotives together unless there exists enough content to differentiate the two.

Currently the NJT Arrows are grouped as a family, same with the Comet coaches and as will be with the SEPTA Silverliners if that article is ever written.

Also are you sure the ACMU's were made at Osgood-Bradley? Google says the plant closed in 1960.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Fri Feb 24 13:28:05 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 24 08:43:27 2012.

FWW Streamliner Cars Vol 1 Pullman Standard by David Randall RPC Publications 1981, lists the NYC cars w/o the W prefix to the PS order # that appears for Osgood built cars.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:34:45 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 23 20:41:56 2012.

Are you sure they just weren't hauling mail cars, not pre-war MU's.

After the DD1 era closed on the LIRR, a 6 car Bablyon MP54 train had to haul a BM60 and BM62 diesel-hauled mail cars from NYPS to Jamaica every morning.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:39:38 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Fri Feb 24 08:43:27 2012.

I only meant to say the MP70T and MP72/P72 of 1953 - 1956 were built by Worcester shops. Those cars also had a Pennsy influence in terms of leaf springs on the Commonwealth trucks (and porthole windows). I don't think that was true of the 1950 ACMU's.

Between the later ACMU's and MP75, the bodies were similar, but not identical. The original window sash on the Comet-I was identical to the MP75, don't know about the ACMU.



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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:41:46 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 22:36:20 2012.

Do either 1037 or 1077 still exist ? Do any of the 1950 cars exist ?

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 18:02:13 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Feb 23 22:36:20 2012.

When was the last time Metro North (or pre-Metro North) had an active commuter club?

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 24 20:29:19 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:34:45 2012.

no as 28 year railroader I did figure the diffenece between Mailcars and commuter cars.


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 24 20:29:52 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Dave on Fri Feb 24 05:46:03 2012.

no its copywrited but I will look for video and maker.


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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 24 20:32:05 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:41:46 2012.

no they don't.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Dutchrailnut on Fri Feb 24 20:32:32 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 18:02:13 2012.

1983

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Feb 25 13:44:22 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 24 17:39:38 2012.

Yeah...I only grouped the MP75s in with the ACMU's. The MP72's and 70's should get their own page, but I don't have much good information on them to write it myself.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 25 13:52:32 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Feb 25 13:44:22 2012.

You need to get your hands on David Randall's books on Pullman-Standards.

BTW, the MP70T's are extinct.

Until the end, the LIRR regarded the 72's as better cars than the 75's. They did not like the latter's complicated braking systems from the start, became push-pull candidates rather quickly in 1972, and were gone about about 6 months before all the 72's were in 1999. The car gave a bouncy ride, and just had a lot of cheap hardware.

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Feb 26 01:49:05 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 25 13:52:32 2012.

Wasn't there any former LIRR T72s in New Jersey recently?

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Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia

Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 26 15:37:26 2012, in response to Re: ACMU Page On Wikipedia, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun Feb 26 01:49:05 2012.

If you are thinking of that tourist RR near Phillispburg, they have 4 PT-72 cars, which were MP72 non-control motors at one time.


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