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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 23:29:55 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 20:01:52 2012. Wow the 6000s are doing very well compared to the rest of the fleet. What upgrades do they have compared to the 2, 3, and 5000s?They are the youngest cars in the fleet. WMATA did not let contractor get away with anything that might be little kinky. They also have a diagnostic system that allows for faster trouble shooting. The diagnostic system on the 7k cars will make diagnostic systems on the older cars look primitive. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 18 23:39:26 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 22:52:06 2012. why are they smaller than the MTA's cars..? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 23:40:48 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Neil Feldman on Sat Feb 18 21:59:53 2012. Uniformity hasn't changed in its body, but now noticable is the cut outs for the side LED's to which is similar to the M7/M8!WMATA went back to 2 sign boxes per side. The only difference being is the sign boxes on the 1k car were closer to the car ends.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 23:58:28 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 22:52:06 2012. I hope you don't mind my borrowing your illustration from this thread for comparison's sake.Not at all, That's why I posted it to google picasa web albums. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 02:15:00 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:16:05 2012. I'm not denying this, but if the safety system that prevents the doors opening when the train isn't fully in the station hadn't been deactivated, this wouldn't have been an issue since the doors in the last car (off the platform) wouldn't have opened, and the operator would have hopefully realized he needed to move up another 75 feet to open the doors. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 02:16:59 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012. Put the 4000s through a midlife overhaul and watch that MDBF go up... |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 04:09:30 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 19:29:08 2012. What part of don't respond to him did you not understand? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:22:30 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012. By NYCT standards, that is horrible. They are all as bad or worse than the R32, which has a right to be bad. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:24:12 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 21:27:04 2012. Who made the 6000's ?The 5000's are not a good omen for the upcoming Amtrak Viewliner-II's, sponsored by CAF. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:25:42 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 18 21:55:13 2012. There were just over 30 when retired, had a botched, in-house rebuild, and were not performing well on the C train. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:26:49 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 19:38:18 2012. I reads it somewhere official about a month ago, perhaps a news release on the WMATA website. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 07:38:44 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 02:15:00 2012. I'm not denying this, but if the safety system that prevents the doors opening when the train isn't fully in the station hadn't been deactivated, this wouldn't have been an issue since the doors in the last car (off the platform) wouldn't have opened, and the operator would have hopefully realized he needed to move up another 75 feet to open the doors.To precise, . . . this wouldn't have been an issue since the doors in the last car (off the platform) wouldn't have allowed the operator to open any of the doors, and the operator would have needed to move up another 75 feet to open them. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 07:58:42 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:24:12 2012. Who made the 6000's ?1k - Rohr 2k - Breda 3k - Breda 4k - Breda 5k - CAF AAI 6k - Alstom The 5000's are not a good omen for the upcoming Amtrak Viewliner-II's, sponsored by CAF. AAI was CAF's US partner when WMATA procured those cars. AAI provided the labor and production facilities to do the final assemble in the US. The relationship between the two companies no long exists. It is also important to note, Viewliners are not EMUs. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by LRG5784 on Sun Feb 19 08:55:49 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 04:09:30 2012. Do you want a cookie? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Feb 19 09:35:00 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 02:16:59 2012. At which point is an overhaul worth it versus replacement? The earliest the 4000s can be rehabbed is after they turn 25 which compared to earlier cars is a little late. Who would want to rehab cars near the end of their useful non-rehabbed lives?Like the Capitals hopes for a Stanley Cup (or even a Conference Finals appearance), the window for a cost-effective rehab for the 4000s is closing shut. A bit of a shame that WMATA couldn't bite the bullet and rehab them too soon. |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 09:41:35 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 07:26:49 2012. I reads it somewhere official about a month ago, perhaps a news release on the WMATA website.I found 2 items on WMATA's web site. Line item in Proposed Fiscal 2013 Annual Budget (13.0 MB PDF file) dated 01 11 2012 On page 163 and 169 Table 6.6 Multi-Year Capital Budget (CIP) Costs: FY2011-2018 and (dollars in millions)
From draft copy of the Riders’ Advisory Council Meeting Minutes of 05 05 2010, Passage from that document: Ms. White asked if the 1000-series railcars were planned for replacement, and if they were planned to be replaced, why money was included in the capital plan for rehabilitation of these cars. Mr. Brown explained that the $4.2 million shown in the plan is for the final payment for a contract for heating and cooling system repairs; he noted that the cars have already undergone a midlife rehabilitation and are planned to be retired beginning in 2014. Ms. White noted that the capital program calls for the replacement of the 4000-series railcars, but not the 2000- and 3000-series and asked why those were not planned for replacement first. Mr. Brown responded that the 2000- and 3000-series railcars have undergone mid-life rehabilitation, while the 4000-series railcars have not yet been rehabilitated. Mr. Bottigheimer said that Metro has calculated that it will be more cost-effective to replace the 4000-series railcars with new railcars rather than to rebuild them. I also found this in the a 01 27 2012 Washington Post article headlined Metro’s renovations never seem to end: Is it getting any better? written by Robert Thomson. "Similarly, Metro now wants to replace the 100 rail cars that make up the 4000 series, rather than have them go through a midlife rehabilitation." John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 09:43:22 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Feb 19 09:35:00 2012. Provided the long term cost justifies rehabbing the cars instead of buying new ones outright, it makes sense. Keep in mind, there was some discussion to giving the 1000 Series cars a rehab (they were only overhauled in the mid 1990s, not nearly extensive of an upgrade) but that the car bodies wouldn't last long enough post rehab to justify such a move. A rehabbed rail car is practically brand new in many respects (though not all), it may still be worthwhile.I'm getting very tired of hearing newcomers to the DC area and/or people on this board moaning about WMATA's financial crisis and the projects that were put off as a result of those issues. Where were you when the now maligned Richard White and the rest of DC transit community warned that not having a dedicated funding source for the transit authority would lead to chronic underfunding, missed maintenance, and a potential for fatal accidents? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 09:45:20 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 07:38:44 2012. Thanks for the clarification, that is what I meant. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 11:10:11 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 09:41:35 2012. Too many people think of WMATA as a new system. It is as old as the IND was in 1967, when the stations were getting shabby, and the original R-1's were falling apart (faster than the BMT Standards). |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 19 12:45:30 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 18 23:39:26 2012. Smaller how? The WMATA cars are 75', making them the same as the longest NYCT cars, and the PATCO cars are 67' (aka 20 meters), which is larger than most MTA cars.If you're referring to number of doors, both agencies prioritize additional seating over more doors. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 19 13:12:14 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012. I maintain that they should go to 4-doors per side and a seating config based on the R44/46/68. The current commuter rail seating and 3 door config is awkward, uncomfortable for those of us 5'10" and taller, and is plagued by people just reaching a door to exit after people have already started entering. 3 doors on a 75' car are just stupid, even if they have longitudinal seating. Furthermore, a point I raised in my comments to WMATA against longitudinal seating is that for people on longer trips, a long bench is extremely inconvenient should you want to use a laptop to get some work done (based on my own experiences going from downtown to Silver Spring and Rockville). I'm a former USAF pilot, so I am quite accustomed to working efficiently in confined spaces...working sideways on a subway train does not cut it. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 14:08:44 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 19 12:45:30 2012. The roofline I think is lower. An R46 wouldn't clear WMATA. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 14:11:31 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 19 13:12:14 2012. Their mindset is that the longer branches, like to Shady Grove, make it pseudo commuter rail, like BART.SIR could probably make do with a 75' car with 3 doors. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Feb 19 15:57:18 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 14:11:31 2012. make it pseudo commuter railIt's crypto S-Bahn. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Feb 19 16:10:41 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Feb 19 15:57:18 2012. Except, you know, sans all that stuff that makes the S-bahn a viable means of bringing near-rapid transit service to the inner suburbs at an affordable capital cost. IOW not an S-bahn. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sun Feb 19 16:42:29 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012. The logo is excellent. The shape (as it has been ) is spacious. Cool, in general. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 17:09:25 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 11:10:11 2012. Too many people think of WMATA as a new system. It is as old as the IND was in 1967, when the stations were getting shabby, and the original R-1's were falling apart (faster than the BMT Standards).You really can't compare WMATA's third option on the Breda contract to the NYCT R-1's. This all begs the question. Will the WMATA execute an option on the 7k contract with Kawasaki, and have them build the 100 4k replacements? I have not read anywhere that Kawasaki would be the contractor to do the Mid Life Rehabilitation of the 4k cars as originally planed. Instead of this: We might end up getting this: Total increase in fleet size: 348 My guess is the 4k cars will continue to soldier on until all of the originally planed new car options from Kawasaki are delivered to WMATA. Here is another question I have. What will the numbering schema for the 7k cars be? My guess it will be some thing like this: This schema will leave the 7900s open in the event WMATA wants to option another 100 cars from Kawasaki and not jump up to the 8100s or recycle 1000s. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 17:20:26 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 17:09:25 2012. Why not just do the numbering straight from 7000 on up to 7747 without the gaps? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 17:31:44 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 19 13:12:14 2012. I maintain that they should go to 4-doors per side and a seating config based on the R44/46/68. The current commuter rail seating and 3 door config is awkward, uncomfortable for those of us 5'10" and taller, and is plagued by people just reaching a door to exit after people have already started entering. 3 doors on a 75' car are just stupid, even if they have longitudinal seating. Furthermore, a point I raised in my comments to WMATA against longitudinal seating is that for people on longer trips, a long bench is extremely inconvenient should you want to use a laptop to get some work done (based on my own experiences going from downtown to Silver Spring and Rockville). I'm a former USAF pilot, so I am quite accustomed to working efficiently in confined spaces...working sideways on a subway train does not cut it.This is really academic as the contract has been awarded and production has commenced. The real solution is, procure more rolling stock to allow the operation of 8 car trains at headways under 3 minutes resulting in lower passenger loads per car. This is something I have been advocating for more then 20 years. The train control and signaling system is designed to accommodate 90 second headways. WMATA has been unable to routinely operated train at headways under 3 minutes sense the Yellow line opened to Huntington in 12 17 1983. With the present fleet size WMATA has now they can only run 90 second headways by reducing train lengths to 6 and 4 car. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 17:40:32 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Feb 19 17:20:26 2012. <>Why not just do the numbering straight from 7000 on up to 7747 without the gaps?They could do that. My schema kind of accommodates the past practice of where contract options had their own series. The difference being, instead jumping thousand digit like was done with the Breda options the hundred digit is jumped. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 17:44:23 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by blue8irt on Sun Feb 19 16:42:29 2012. The logo is excellent. The shape (as it has been ) is spacious. Cool, in general.The logo has been dubbed appropriately or inappropriately depending on ones point of view the "disco ball" logo. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 18:01:01 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:17:14 2012. While WMATA is not necessarily a bus company, it, like the Baltimore and LA metros came from a tradition of not having any previous rapid transit service but surface operations only. Thus when their respective transit systems were opened, many of the aspects of the long standing surface systems, notably in the area of scheduling and operator assignments were applied to the rapid transit systems. In NY, Boston, Chicago and Philly, their rapid transit systems developed simultaneously with their surface systems so 2 separate and distinct methods of scheduling and crew assignments were developed. Surface scheduling and operator assignment methods usually can't work on rapid transit lines since it takes longer for an operator on a rapid transit train of several car lengths to lock up and secure one operating cab, walk to the opposite end of the train set up a new operating cab and charge the brake system which is why most rapid transit systems have drop back crews to take trains back from terminals especially during peak times of short headways. On bus lines and many light rail systems that terminate in loops, the operator usually remains with the vehicle thus terminal recovery time for both vehicle and crew can be less than it would be on a rapid transit system. When I visited the WMATA offices, it seemed that many of the old timers in the schedule office were left over from the old DC Transit days and were treating the 6 and 8 car metro trains the same way that they treated the buses and streetcars in terms of scheduling and crewing. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 18:10:22 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sun Feb 19 14:08:44 2012. The roofline I think is lower. An R46 wouldn't clear WMATA.WMATA rolling stock is 10' 11" tall. NYCTA BMT/IND rolling stock is 12' 1 1/2" tall (R-46). John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 18:12:03 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by R30A on Sat Feb 18 18:53:59 2012. Ravenswood as long as I can remember had no midnight service from approximately 200AM to 400AM. AFAIK, prior to the Red/Green swap all CTA services ran 24/7 except for Midway, Skokie and Evanston and as I mentioned, the short break in service on Ravenswood. Maybe some Chicago natives can supply some more accurate info. If I recall, the Blue LIne (AKA Congress or Douglas/O Hare ran half hourly service on the mainline with hourly service to the Douglas and Congress branches. The Howard St North/South ran better service operating a 10 min PM headway until midnight, 12 min till 100AM, 15 min till 200AM with 20 min only between 200AM and 400AM gradually building back up from a 15 min headway starting at 400AM. Since at the time, the service was split between Jackson Pk (actually E 63 St) and Englewood, I assume that the headway to the branches was double the mainline headway. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 18:48:24 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Sun Feb 19 18:01:01 2012. When I visited the WMATA offices, it seemed that many of the old timers in the schedule office were left over from the old DC Transit days and were treating the 6 and 8 car metro trains the same way that they treated the buses and streetcars in terms of scheduling and crewing.That must have been a long time ago as most of the people that worked for DC Transit retired more the 25 year ago, but I digress. It should be noted that the WMATA operational model evolved from the surface transit model only because WMATA acquired surface transit operations from the private operators on 01 14 1973 and 04 04 1973. WMATA broke ground on the construction of the first segment of metrorail on 12 09 1969. It was envisioned prior to the decision to acquire the private bus companies that WMATA would operate using a operational model similar to bart. Bart doesn't have a surface transit operation. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 14:00:14 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sun Feb 19 18:48:24 2012. Although BART never had a surface counterpart, from what I have seen, it seems to operate a lot like a bus system. When I was there for the ERA convention, I was riding back from Oakland and the "operator" stopped the train at an employee only platform near one of the yards and was relieved by another operator much the same way bus operators are relieved enroute. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 14:32:15 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 14:00:14 2012. Would have been Hayward Yard (& shops). A common occurrence because jobs begin/end at the shops and not at the Fremont end of the line. At the Richmond end the yard/shops are directly adjacent. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Feb 20 15:16:38 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 14:00:14 2012. Although BART never had a surface counterpart, from what I have seen, it seems to operate a lot like a bus system. When I was there for the ERA convention, I was riding back from Oakland and the "operator" stopped the train at an employee only platform near one of the yards and was relieved by another operator much the same way bus operators are relieved enroute.Some of the operators begin and end their shifts at terminal stations as well, as some trains are stored overnight at the platform of the terminal station or in the tail tracks beyond. 4 of those terminal stations are Largo, Huntington, Springfield-Franconia and Vienna. None of those terminal stations are directly accessible to a yard. The Lagro tail track do have a small maintenance facility that is not really a "depot" where an operator would begin or end their shift at. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 15:19:43 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Feb 20 15:16:38 2012. Agreed, but I noticed when riding a Red Line train to Shady Grove, in the PM rush, the operator made the return trip on the same train with only 6 min recovery time, something which never would be allowed on NYCT. On a line of that length, the crew would have to get a minimum of 15 min recovery time. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 15:26:15 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 14:32:15 2012. That's something that would never be done on NYCT. Even if a crew were to report in a yard, they would prepare a train and put it in service. AFAIK, at the moment, the only place on NYCT where road reliefs are done other than at the terminal is Bedford Pk on the D and that is only because there is insufficient room at 205 St for crew facilities. Otherwise crews that don't have put ins or layups report and are relieved at terminals. There is another odd exception I should note and that is the Franklin Shuttle. Since here is no supervision at Prosp Pk, T/Os report at Dekalb and deadhead to PPK to make their trips. |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Feb 20 16:14:47 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 15:19:43 2012. But wouldn't it be easier and less strenuous to "operate" a WMATA train provided it is being driven automatically than a NYC subway train? |
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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Feb 20 20:07:54 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 20 15:26:15 2012. Contrariwise, decades ago I was on a JP all stop owl train which pulled up to a two car train sitting on the main SB track @ the 61st ST station. our motorman carefully made the coupling and then closed his cab and left the train. The new motorman at the front took over and we left as a 6 rather than 4 car train. When we arrived at JP the signs were changed to a B Train. |
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