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WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012









From UnSuck DC Metro

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.



(1140366)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:24:50 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012.

North America's best transit system. I'm looking forward to their debut next year.

(1140367)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 11:30:29 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:24:50 2012.

At a meeting when the FRA was invited to discuss the 2009 crash, seeing the attitude and (in)competence of WMATA rail officials, one slapped his Smartcard on the table, and said, there's $20 left on it, take it, and I won't be using it anymore.

(1140368)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:37:02 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 11:30:29 2012.

whatever...

(1140369)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 18 11:42:30 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 11:30:29 2012.

How many people are injured and killed in traffic accidents versus Metro accidents in the DC area? I sometimes think rail is held to a ridiculously high safety standard.

(1140370)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:47:48 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 18 11:42:30 2012.

Thank you. People act like WMATA is the only system that ever had an accident. Yes, it was a tragedy, but it was a once-in-a-lifetime event.

(1140377)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Mike Cruz on Sat Feb 18 12:27:48 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012.

It's nice to see more $ being spent on the same old stuff.............

(1140406)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Feb 18 14:25:46 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:47:48 2012.

I think what's got some folks spooked is the way the railcars fell apart in both that (6/22/2009) accident and the one at Woodley Park (11/3/2004).

-w-

(1140412)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:29:23 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Sat Feb 18 14:25:46 2012.

Other 1000's have telescoped in the yards, mid train, when it was the end cars that got struck.

These are by no means once-in-a-life-time events, and they get by day-by-day by luck. As it is, 6 car trains pull to the end of the platform since they cannot trust the train operators to stop at the proper car marker.

WMATA is a bus company.

(1140415)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 14:39:09 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by merrick1 on Sat Feb 18 11:42:30 2012.

How many people are injured and killed in traffic accidents versus Metro accidents in the DC area?

In the universe I live in there is no such thing as an accident.

I sometimes think rail is held to a ridiculously high safety standard.

With all the pieces and part, the fact that the trains are operated in a controlled environment, the reams of documents that are used to keep those pieces and part working to designed specification, there is no excuse for trains to be crashing into each other.

The event of 06 23 2009 was the result of the above NOT being followed to the T !

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

(1140419)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 14:47:20 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Mike Cruz on Sat Feb 18 12:27:48 2012.

It's nice to see more $ being spent on the same old stuff.............

The only thing that is the same is the cross section and profile. Under that stainless steel, as apposed to the aluminum cars that WMATA has now, is a radically different car. These are not compatible with the cars in the existing fleet.

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

(1140420)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 14:47:35 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:47:48 2012.

It is the only agency who have one series of cars that are prone to sometimes fatal accidents though.

(1140422)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 14:53:55 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 11:30:29 2012.

Good. To hell with that farce of a system.

(1140424)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 14:54:45 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:29:23 2012.

And a mediocre one at that!

(1140425)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 14:56:15 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 11:24:50 2012.

Lol their transit system doesn't even run at night. Please...PATH is better than them.

MTA > PATH > WMATA

(1140427)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:59:21 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 14:47:20 2012.

I hear that have decided not to rehab the 4000's to be compatibel with the 7000's, but replace them. I presume they want rid of aluminum cars ASAP, and are afraid to mix 7K's with 4K's as the former would always lose.

(1140430)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 15:03:17 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:59:21 2012.

I meant the latter.

(1140432)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 15:05:55 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 14:56:15 2012.

Lol their transit system doesn't even run at night.

FWIW, you can count the number of systems around the world where the trains run 24/7 with one hand, and two of them are in the same city.

(1140450)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 18 15:50:54 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 15:05:55 2012.

NY, of course and that would include NYCT and PATH. Chicago runs 2 of its transit lines at night but no longer runs the Green Line (Lake/Jackson Pk/Englewood) and hasn't run Ravenswood, Evanston or Skokie at night for years and I don't think Skokie ever ran at night and the Pink line which was part of the Blue (Douglas) doesn't run at night either. Philly stopped running its rapid transit services overnight, replacing them with buses but does run subway surface routes all night. At the moment, I can't think of any others.

(1140457)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Feb 18 16:15:21 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:29:23 2012.

As it is, 6 car trains pull to the end of the platform since they cannot trust the train operators to stop at the proper car marker.

They deactivated the safety system that would prevent an 8 car train from opening its doors at the 6 car marker "temporarily" before the crash and then required manual door operation due to electromagnetic interference caused by power system upgrades. If they hadn't left the operators without their backup system, it wouldn't have been an issue. This is akin to removing the spotting boards for the conductors in New York City.

(1140459)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 16:26:58 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 15:05:55 2012.

pwned

(1140460)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 16:27:53 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 14:54:45 2012.

wrong

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 16:48:58 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:29:23 2012.

WMATA is a bus company

WOW that is the first time I ever read such a statement about WMATA! Usually it's exactly the opposite, because Metro loves its Metrorail. The bus division was only starting to get some well-needed attention and upgrades to make it more attractive starting a few years ago...

(1140463)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 16:53:11 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:59:21 2012.

That would be interesting and odd if true. Even if they got rid of the 4000s, the 2000s, 3000s, and especially the 5000s and 6000s will be around for many years to come.

(1140464)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Feb 18 16:55:00 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 16:27:53 2012.

LRG is a troll, best to just ignore him and his idiotic claims when it comes to WMATA...

(1140474)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:16:05 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Feb 18 16:15:21 2012.

I do rememeber about 2 years ago, an 8 car train stopped manually at the 6 car marker, operator forgetting how long the train was.

(1140475)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:17:14 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 16:48:58 2012.

I meant that from a culure of safety aspect.

(1140478)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:20:45 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 16:53:11 2012.

When the 1000's and 4000's are completely done-in by the 7000's, my guess is that the 2's, 3's, 5's, and 6's become rush hour equipment, the 5's and 6's get scrapped at midlife overhaul, the 2's and 3's go soon after the 4000's.

(1140481)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 17:25:16 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 18 15:50:54 2012.

Philly stopped running its rapid transit services overnight,

There is also PATCO which operates a solid 24/7 schedule.

(1140485)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:31:41 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 17:25:16 2012.

What does BART do ?

(1140488)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Feb 18 17:38:16 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 17:31:41 2012.

Funny you should ask. Generally closes at midnight opening variously MF, Sat, Sun. However, as the upper deck of the Bay Bridge is closed for the 3 day weekend, skeletal owl service
http://bart.gov/news/articles/2012/news20120117.aspx

(1140500)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 18:04:25 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 16:53:11 2012.

I think it's more that the 2k/3k/4k cars are liable to telescope in a similar way to the Rohr's though not as severe. Add in the myriad issues the 4k cars have and a case can be made to replace them.

The 5k cars (mental as they are) and the 6k cars are less risky.

(1140504)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 18:51:29 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 18:04:25 2012.

I thought the 5K's were the troublemakers (derailments, manufacturing defects), and the 4K's behaved themselves (there are only 100 of them).

(1140507)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by R30A on Sat Feb 18 18:53:59 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 18 15:50:54 2012.

I could easily be wrong, but I believe the Ravenswood had late night service more recently than Lake or Englewood/Jackson Park. (What ran all night prior to the Red/Green swap?)

(1140522)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 19:20:36 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 16:26:58 2012.

Pwned nothing. Get your head out of the gutter.

(1140523)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:09 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 18:51:29 2012.

(1140524)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 18:51:29 2012.

Metrorail MBDF for April 2010-March 2011

1000 series: 42,175 miles
2000-3000 series: 43,633 miles
4000 series: 29,496 miles
5000 series: 40,847 miles
6000 series: 89,258 miles

The 4000's also have issues with door motors and compatibility issues of both motors (they're still DC, everything else is now AC) and auxiliary systems when run with other cars. Now if WMATA would stop the Fort Totten-initiated PR charade and run solid consists for optimal performance, this wouldn't be happening.

The 4000s will be WMATA's answer to the R27/30s in NYC, the 2000s in Chicago, and the 01100s and 01400s in Boston at this rate.

(1140525)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 19:22:28 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Feb 18 16:55:00 2012.

Oh be quiet you!!! Go hit it off with your buddy who seemingly is on a sabbatical from this place...or IS HE???

STILL
LOL@WMATA-WHATEVER

(1140526)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 19:23:41 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012.

+1

(1140527)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 19:28:48 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sat Feb 18 16:55:00 2012.

+1

(1140528)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 19:29:08 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 19:22:28 2012.

Don't be mad because you were finally put in your place

(1140529)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 19:30:43 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by PATHman on Sat Feb 18 19:29:08 2012.

Yeah ok whatever you say, Sir Reginald hater of self....

(1140531)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 19:38:18 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 18 14:59:21 2012.

I hear that have decided not to rehab the 4000's to be compatibel with the 7000's, but replace them. I presume they want rid of aluminum cars ASAP, and are afraid to mix 7K's with 4K's as the former would always lose.

This is news to me unless you meant something else by what you said here.

If what you say it true and they replace them one for one with more 7k cars they will sill not have enough cars to achieve their goal of running all 8 car trains at 3 minute headways on all lines during peak.

The 7k contract last I heard goes like this:
  • Base contract: 64 cars - Dulles Phase 1
  • Option 4: 300 cars - Fleet Renewal (1000 Series)
  • Unfunded
  • Option 3: 100 cars - Mid-Life Rehabilitation (4000 Series)
  • Option 1: 64 cars - Dulles Phase 2
  • Option 2: 130 cars - Growth 75% Eight-Car Trains
  • Option 5: 90 cars - Growth 100% Eight-Car Trains

*Total Project Scope = 748 Railcars
Procurement contract awarded:
  • Base contract 128 cars - Dulles Phase I and II
  • Option 1: 300 cars - Fleet Renewal (1000 Series)
*Total Project Scope = 428 Railcars

John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore.

(1140534)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Sat Feb 18 20:01:52 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012.

Wow the 6000s are doing very well compared to the rest of the fleet. What upgrades do they have compared to the 2, 3, and 5000s?

(1140547)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 21:27:04 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012.

5000 series: 40,847 miles
6000 series: 89,258 miles


FWIW, Metrorail's MDBF numbers look rather low compared to NYCTA, especially when looking at newer rolling stock...

(1140549)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Feb 18 21:32:56 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 21:27:04 2012.

Yup.

(1140551)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 21:36:50 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Feb 18 21:27:04 2012.

That could be attributable to different reporting standards for what constitutes a failure or even just the slightly greater complexity of the WMATA stock. With onboard ATO equipment there's that much more to go wrong per mile traveled.

(1140554)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Edwards! on Sat Feb 18 21:55:13 2012, in response to Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Scrabbleship on Sat Feb 18 19:21:27 2012.

what?

The 27/30's were WORKHORSES..operating in/on every line on the B Division!

By the time they were retired [Prematurely I should say] they were worn out..but EARNED their rest.
They can never be looked upon as a "failure" of ANY KIND..

(1140555)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by Neil Feldman on Sat Feb 18 21:59:53 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012.

Uniformity hasn't changed in its body, but now noticable is the cut outs for the side LED's to which is similar to the M7/M8!

(1140563)

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Re: WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures

Posted by WillD on Sat Feb 18 22:52:06 2012, in response to WMATA: 7k prototype car pictures, posted by Sand Box John on Sat Feb 18 07:49:00 2012.

Interesting. I hadn't noticed it until now, but with the ever-so-slight angle at which the front end protrudes and the black mask around the cab windows, the 7000 series' A-cars end up looking a bit like a PATCO car with a paunch (at least when viewed from any angle but the side).

I hope you don't mind my borrowing your illustration from this thread for comparison's sake.




PATCO I diagram from PhillyNHRS

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