|
|
| Budd RDC in Portland commuter service (1136450) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
|
| (1136450) | |
Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by eyedoctor on Wed Feb 1 01:04:49 2012 http://railfan.com/extraboard/rf_extra_mar2011.php |
|
|
| (1136463) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 02:19:43 2012, in response to Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by eyedoctor on Wed Feb 1 01:04:49 2012. Yes; they've had them since '09.Don't ask me why there's no commuter rail between Wilsonville and Portland. That would make a lot of sense. |
|
|
| (1136465) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 1 02:24:14 2012, in response to Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by eyedoctor on Wed Feb 1 01:04:49 2012. While interesting, that article neglects to mention the simply astounding cost of the WES. Somewhere on the order of $20 a rider. It is incredible that some on this board would have systems out here replicate that absolute failure in Bergen County, or anywhere else. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1136488) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 03:48:09 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 1 02:24:14 2012. Now just what are you talking about . . . ? I don't think it should have cost as high as $11 million per mile myself, but that's way, way cheaper than any LRT. OW fare is $2.40. |
|
|
| (1136489) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 03:49:21 2012, in response to Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by eyedoctor on Wed Feb 1 01:04:49 2012. Testing back in 2010. They got combines . . . that would be useful for Portland-Salem rail service, wouldn't it? |
|
|
| (1136496) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 04:09:26 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 03:49:21 2012. I know RDC's well, and got to run a few. RDC's were great cars, but they required a LOT of maintenance and if you suffered "transmission stall" they were toast until the transmissions could be rebuilt. There's good reason why railroads wanted to get rid of them when better options were available. They were expensive, difficult to operate and very costly on repairs.There aren't many other options for the cost Portland laid out for these, and they got a good price for what they got indeed. But as mainstays of running a railroad, they're a poor choice. As "spares" it would seem a good choice for the price they paid. Not much more than that. Don't get me wrong, I love RDC's for my own personal nostalgia for them, but they're not really a good choice for anything more than "substitutes." |
|
|
| (1136499) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 1 04:46:52 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 03:48:09 2012. Now just what are you talking about . . . ?Aww, say it ain't so, eh? You can't be so totally, irredeemably wrong as to advocate for a solution which is FAR more expensive than any of the alternatives could you? 'Fraid you are. Right there in black and white, a per passenger cost EIGHT times more expensive than the LRT. I take that back. I'm not afraid, you're simply a fool. It's awesome that someone was finally foolish enough to build what put your modal choice into action. I just feel bad for commuters and taxpayers in the Portland area. They're the ones who have to pay for this abortion you'd have NJ unleash on its unsuspecting passengers. They're subsidizing every rider to the tune of 18 dollars, for a fare recovery rate of less than 12%! I don't think it should have cost as high as $11 million per mile myself, but that's way, way cheaper than any LRT. At the rate the Westside Express is burning through money the marginal difference in capital costs between their LRT lines and that abortion of a 'commuter rail' is rapidly shrinking, with little benefit on the WES side to offset its mounting costs. By my count, by operating the DMU for 20 years they'll nearly have spent the difference between the DMU and the LRT alternatives. Of course the LRT would actually attract passengers, so that throws the operational cost side off by being useful. The lesson of the WES's failure could not be more clear. The DMUs were a failure, the company that made the DMUs was a failure, the line is a failure, the entire concept is now revealed to be such a complete and utter failure that you should feel ashamed for having the gall to advocate NJT follow Portland's path to economic ruin for this long. |
|
|
| (1136500) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 05:39:34 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 1 04:46:52 2012. But ya gotta admit ... dragging old and busted RDC's into the mix is humorous ... like I said, I love those old girls but it's like putting arnines on the SAS when it opens. Great cars, but the MBDF's are gonna suck moosemeat. :) |
|
|
| (1136501) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Wed Feb 1 06:34:09 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 04:09:26 2012. TRE has had good success with them. It helped that the RDCs were completely stripped down to their shell and remanufactured by Alsthom. All new interiors were provided, including new seats, floors, ceilings, walls, windows, and lighting. I think they still use the original GM engines. |
|
|
| (1136523) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Wed Feb 1 09:08:22 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 03:49:21 2012. Is just those two, or are there more? |
|
|
| (1136578) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Feb 1 13:19:43 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 04:09:26 2012. outlasted the SPVs. |
|
|
| (1136580) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 13:26:51 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 04:09:26 2012. As long as the FRA maintains draconian regulations on any new DMU, the RDC's that still survive will remain until the physically fall apart. |
|
|
| (1136614) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 14:49:47 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Dave on Wed Feb 1 06:34:09 2012. Basically a pair of Chevy truck motors down there. But they still require more maintenance more often than other equipment. |
|
|
| (1136615) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 14:50:22 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Wed Feb 1 13:19:43 2012. Indeed ... the cars themselves are quite good ... the problem is the frequent repairs needed on the traction. |
|
|
| (1136617) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 14:54:04 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 13:26:51 2012. And if only the guy who ran Colorado Railcar wasn't such a skeev ... |
|
|
| (1136631) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 1 15:13:16 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 14:49:47 2012. Basically a pair of Chevy truck motors down there.Not exactly; the only trucks to use the 6-110 were Euclids, not Chevies, and the RDC used a pancake variety. The TriMet RDCs were repowered with Cummins diesels by MK. |
|
|
| (1136645) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 15:40:32 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 14:54:04 2012. Was the CRC vehicle FRA compliant for use as heavy rail? I thought it was just an LRV. |
|
|
| (1136646) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 15:41:47 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 1 15:13:16 2012. Others had Rolls Royce engines in the drawer. The "Chevy engine" comment was based on what I was told by a mechanic at Harmon back when RDC's were covering the Croton to Poughkeepsie segment ... |
|
|
| (1136648) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 15:51:11 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 15:40:32 2012. Not sure because the idjit was dancing back and forth with them over the designs. It was square tube construction with a skin over it and all sorts of cross-members on the ends for strengthening. I *thought* I'd read that he'd made it to compliance, but he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to it. If they're running on mainlines though, means they got there. And Alaska is all mainline. |
|
|
| (1136657) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 1 16:30:39 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 15:41:47 2012. The "Chevy engine" comment was based on what I was told by a mechanic at Harmon back when RDC's were covering the Croton to Poughkeepsie segment ...I've heard that before, too, but it's wrong. Not that a 660 cid engine *never* found its way into a Chevy truck... |
|
|
| (1136659) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 16:37:19 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Feb 1 16:30:39 2012. Heh. I think he meant GMC truck engines, though back in those days they bore the Chevy monicker too ... possibly that type. I've seen the drawer pulled out on an RDC and those babies were HUGE. :) |
|
|
| (1136664) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Feb 1 17:06:54 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 16:37:19 2012. The engines used in RDC cars were Detroit 6-110 "flatpacks" ^-110s were also used in the finest bus ever built, the Super 7 Scenicruiser operated by Greyhound. |
|
|
| (1136666) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:19:02 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 15:51:11 2012. Still think there's a huge market for DMU's here in the states IF the FRA didn't mandate that their operators maintain them as individual locomotives. |
|
|
| (1136667) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:20:04 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by RockParkMan on Wed Feb 1 17:06:54 2012. Wasn't much of a motorhead myself back then, but that was one impressive block they yanked out from under. :) |
|
|
| (1136668) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:20:36 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:19:02 2012. But they ARE locomotives. |
|
|
| (1136669) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Dave Wallace on Wed Feb 1 17:21:30 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by RockParkMan on Wed Feb 1 17:06:54 2012. The Super 7 ScenicCruiser - otherwise known as an MC-7 actually used a Detroit Diesel 8V71. |
|
|
| (1136673) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Feb 1 17:28:16 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Dave Wallace on Wed Feb 1 17:21:30 2012. Maybe so but a W.W. Williams rep told me that he has a parts customer who has a Super 7 with a 6-110 |
|
|
| (1136677) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:33:06 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:20:36 2012. No, they are self powered vehicles. Locomotives provide traction for themselves AND other vehicles. The problem is that it's just cheaper to have a 3 car push pull and a single locomotive than 3 DMU's. This is why NJT has forsaken MU's of ANY kind. Nothing more hysterical than seeing an 9 car MLV push pull with 2 cars open crawling between stations on the Montclair branch. |
|
|
| (1136678) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:35:59 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:33:06 2012. An RDC *can* pull a trailer, though it's rough on the transmission and so isn't done. They have been used here and there to move boxcars as well. They ARE a locomotive, no getting around that. Even SD's have seats up front. If it's got motors and an operating position, it's a locomotive. |
|
|
| (1136685) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 17:54:41 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:33:06 2012. Nothing more hysterical than seeing an 9 car MLV push pull with 2 cars open crawling between stations on the Montclair branchThat kills me. I remember pre-Montclair-Connection when it was all Comet Is and U34CHs, and it was intolerably slow stopping at every Montclair station back then. The speed between stations improved greatly when they put the Arrows on there; this is why I grit my teeth at NJT's utter stupidity insofar as not electrifying the Montclair-Boonton all the way to Denville. |
|
|
| (1136686) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 1 18:01:39 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 15:40:32 2012. Was the CRC vehicle FRA compliant for use as heavy rail? I thought it was just an LRV.It was fully Tier I compliant. They wouldn't have run it on the Princeton Branch if not, and Tri-Rail wouldn't have tested the single decker on their commuter rail either, pulling two BBD bilevels. (This is one of oaksmodelrr's videos; hope he's OK with the hotlink.) |
|
|
| (1136733) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by kp5308 on Wed Feb 1 20:58:40 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:35:59 2012. They have been used here and there to move boxcars as well.Budd was specific in the operating manual that the RDC was not to be used as a "locomotive" & would not replace any parts under the warranty. Minneapolis & St. Louis often hauled an express box with a single RDC during the Christmas season & was told in writing by Budd about the warranty being voided by this practice. |
|
|
| (1136734) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 21:02:09 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by kp5308 on Wed Feb 1 20:58:40 2012. Quite a few railroads used them like that though. I recall an RDC set out by the wye at Oak Point that would sometimes make short moves there. And of course, paired up with one unit dead in tow happened at times on the Hudson line as well ... |
|
|
| (1136735) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 1 21:02:41 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Feb 1 17:33:06 2012. They have been qualified as locomotives right from whe they got build.They were never classified as any thing but locomotoves.. |
|
|
| (1136737) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 21:14:44 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 1 21:02:41 2012. Foamers. LOL |
|
|
| (1136750) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Feb 2 00:39:52 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 17:35:59 2012. Ditto the (fully FRA compliant) Colorado Railcar DMUs: RPOTW  |
|
|
| (1136751) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Feb 2 00:45:12 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 21:02:09 2012. C&O pulled a shorty trailer behind an RDC between Newport News Richmond late 50s early 60s. The trailer looked to be lighter weight than a typical HW coach small 4 wheel trucks. |
|
|
| (1136752) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 2 00:55:24 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Feb 2 00:45:12 2012. Yep ... like others have pointed out, you weren't SUPPOSED to do that, but if you had a mechanical department, you serviced transmissions. :) |
|
|
| (1136819) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by NJCL2308 on Thu Feb 2 12:36:24 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by kp5308 on Wed Feb 1 20:58:40 2012. NYC used to do this-run a train of ACMUs out of Grand Central with an RDC tacked on the rear. They also were told that this practice would void the warranty. |
|
|
| (1136834) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 2 13:25:23 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 1 21:02:41 2012. But there's a distinct difference in what they were supposed to do. I wasn't referring to how they were classified, I was just noting that a DMU and a straight up locomotive have different jobs and that perhaps they should be given a separate, less regulated designation to make them more attractive. |
|
|
| (1136841) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Feb 2 13:38:29 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 2 13:25:23 2012. I wonder if the current "re-builders" have substantially upgraded the motive, and transmission to a point where a trailer, or two, could be mixed in with several powered unites?I beleive some were, or are, in service in the Dallas - Ft. Worth area. Not trailers, just RDC's. How did the later S P V 's compare engine, and transmission wise? My Lionel, MTH and K-lines have overcome these problems!!!! |
|
|
| (1136842) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Feb 2 13:44:53 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 1 21:02:41 2012. This is what VIA has about the BUDDS in their FleetModel: RDC-4 Built by: Budd Car Company Engine: Diesel Horsepower: 280 per engine (two engines) Head end power (for on-board lighting, air conditioning, etc.): 35 kW Weight: approximately 53,071 kg (117,000 lb) Top speed: 136 km/h (85 mi/h) Built between: September 1955 Number of units in fleet: 1 . Did you know? •The RDC model number dictates its usage. - RDC-1: For passengers only, with a vestibule at each end. - RDC-2: For passengers, but with a baggage compartment. - RDC-3: Partly for passengers, partly for baggage or the Postal Service. - RDC-4: No passengers: partly for baggage, partly for use by the Postal Service. - RDC-9 (also known as RDC-5): No controls and only one engine. This model was used to add passenger capacity. •RDCs 1 to 4 are equipped with two engines, which means that if necessary, they can still reach their destination with one working engine. •The VIA Rail RDCs (used primarily on the Victoria-Courtenay and the Sudbury-White River routes) are the only remaining RDCs in the world still providing regular service. •RDCs employed on Vancouver Island on VIA's Victoria-Courtenay route provide the only daily RDC service in the world. •From the beginning, RDCs were designed to be linked together, with detachable controls allowing the driver to move the train in either direction... without having to turn the car around! •VIA's RDCs are fitted with diaphragms to allow passengers to move between the cars. This feature was not included when the RDCs were first built. •The only RDC-4 still in service anywhere in the world can be found on the Sudbury-White River route. |
|
|
| (1136867) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Feb 2 14:57:15 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by NJCL2308 on Thu Feb 2 12:36:24 2012. Why would they do something like that, aside from the fun of lashing weird equipment together? 8-) |
|
|
| (1136870) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 2 15:41:30 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by NJCL2308 on Thu Feb 2 12:36:24 2012. Did the RDC pull the ACMU's or did the ACMU's pull the RDC? |
|
|
| (1136872) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 2 16:11:13 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by NJCL2308 on Thu Feb 2 12:36:24 2012. Electric ended at Croton, RDC's continued on to Poughkeepsie. Sounds like the plan was to get going north out of Croton quickly. |
|
|
| (1136909) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by chuchubob on Thu Feb 2 18:47:45 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Avid Reader on Thu Feb 2 13:44:53 2012. Take the 85 mph max speed with a grain of salt. When P-RSL ran RDCs to Atlantic City, they surpassed 90 mph on every trip. They still went faster than 90 when operated by Conrail and NJDOT. 
|
|
|
| (1136910) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Feb 2 18:51:18 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 1 05:39:34 2012. Depends on how much rebuilding you do to the arnines. 8-) |
|
|
| (1136912) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 2 18:52:31 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by 3-9 on Thu Feb 2 18:51:18 2012. I think folks on the UES would bitch a blue streak at the "old wrecks" even if they were painted pink. :) |
|
|
| (1136923) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Feb 2 19:21:00 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by chuchubob on Thu Feb 2 18:47:45 2012. Nice collection, nice work. |
|
|
| (1136929) | |
Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Feb 2 20:29:34 2012, in response to Re: Budd RDC in Portland commuter service, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Feb 2 15:41:30 2012. read again chris the single RDC was at end of a ACMU train from GCT to Croton-Harmon and continoud on its own to poughtown. |
|
|
[1 2] |
||
|
|
Page 1 of 2 |
|
