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| April 18, 1965 (1055814) | |
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| (1055814) | |
April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011 A day before the anniversary here's a brochure announcing the change of terminals for the 7th and Lexington Avenue Expresses to Dyre Avenue and 241st Street. (I believe that this was mentioned during the recent 7th Avenue Local thread.) The #2 finally had terminals which it served 24/7. The #5 Thru Express continued to/from 241st Street during rush hours and ran express from 149th Street to Gun Hill Road stopping only at East 180th Street. The TA November 1967 map shows the Thru Express making all stops above East 180th.  |
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| (1055829) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 17 20:34:21 2011, in response to April 18, 1965, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011. Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen that brochure before. There was a poster that was put up inside train cars announcing the change, but it wasn't this, and it didn't have that "ta" logo on it.The thru-express trains actually made all stops north of 180th from the time these changes were implemented onward. The poster that I remember originally also said they would run express between E. 180th and Gun Hill, but part of the text was then (after the posters first went up but before the effective date of the change) covered up by replacement text (in red, I think) that said they would make local stops north of 180th. |
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| (1055837) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 17 20:38:00 2011, in response to April 18, 1965, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011. Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen that brochure before. There was a poster that was put up inside train cars announcing the change, but it wasn't this, and it didn't have that "ta" logo on it.The thru-express trains actually made all stops north of 180th from the time these changes were implemented onward. The poster that I remember originally also said they would run express between E. 180th and Gun Hill, but part of the text was then (after the posters first went up but before the effective date of the change) covered up by replacement text (in red, I think) that said they would make local stops north of 180th. |
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| (1055851) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 17 20:46:02 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 17 20:38:00 2011. Sorry for the double post. Anyway, the other poster I was thinking of (without the add-on text about express service not running north of E. 180th St.) can be seen here. I originally got it from another post on this board; I think it had been posted by BMTman, but I may be wrong about that. |
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| (1055902) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 17 22:16:32 2011, in response to April 18, 1965, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011. It appears there was no express service on the Lex in Manhattan during overnight hours. I had always thought that the Lex-Jerome ran express in Manhattan 24/7. |
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| (1055945) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 18 07:50:41 2011, in response to April 18, 1965, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011. Easter fell on April 18 that year. One week earlier, an outbreak of tornadoes, the Palm Sunday Twisters, ripped through South Bend and Elkhart, Indiana. My mother remembers seeing a funnel cloud to the south of where we lived. Luckily we were spared. I had the mumps right at that time. |
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| (1055946) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 18 07:59:59 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Apr 17 22:16:32 2011. From a previous message: "It appears there was no express service on the Lex in Manhattan during overnight hours. I had always thought that the Lex-Jerome ran express in Manhattan 24/7."The Lexington Avenue-Jerome Avenue route ran at all times - however the question was always what terminal in Brooklyn would be served when one of the westside express trains ended for the night? This has been the history of the Lexington Avenue express route, to service the terminal that would be left without service. The route that would be called the #4 Line would serve either Flatbush Avenue or New Lots Avenue terminals for the midnight hours depending upon which westside route "cut out for the night". Read the guide again, there are two listings for the Lexington-Jerome line, and they have different terminals and times. Even the early 1970's maps had the #4 line serving both Utica Avenue and Flatbush Avenue terminals at certain times of the day or week, but when the #3 stopped running for the night, the #4 ran to Flatbush Avenue. In the 1980's after the Brooklyn terminal switch of the #2 and #3 lines, the #4 serviced the New Lots Avenue segment when the #3 stopped running. Notice that for the most part - westside express service to Brooklyn has always (extremely often) went always to the outer terminals of Flatbush Avenue or New Lots Avenue. While Lexington express service to Brooklyn used Atlantic Avenue or Utica Avenue as terminals, in addition to the outer terminals. The main reason - its the trackage that influences the service patterns - some things are easier to do due to the trackage. Mike |
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| (1056008) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 18 13:24:31 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Michael549 on Mon Apr 18 07:59:59 2011. My mid-60s Hagstrom's map lists separate #4 services - one for normal hours, the other for the late hours. During the late hours back then, the 4 made all local stops. |
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| (1056009) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by GIS Man on Mon Apr 18 13:38:26 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 18 13:24:31 2011. Were there ever switches between Hoyt St. and the split to the two Borough Halls? Maps from the old days which did specify that the Lexington Av. line ran local at night did not include any notes about Hoyt St, IIRC.Thanks, Bob |
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| (1056036) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 18 15:28:33 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Apr 17 20:34:21 2011. Initially, the thru expresses were express all the way between Gun Hill and 149/3 but passengers along the stations between Gun Hill and E180 St, especially Pelham Pky, complained about the loss of direct Lex Av rush hour service, so the schedules were modified so that Lex trains made all stops N/O E180. |
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| (1056038) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 18 15:32:54 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 18 13:24:31 2011. There was a brief period in the very early 1960s when midnight Woodlawn service ran local to allow for the construction of the express platforms at 59 St. Otherwise until the mid 1970s service cuts that made the Pelham Line a midnight shuttle, Woodlawn service ran express on the midnights. |
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| (1056040) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 18 15:35:06 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by GIS Man on Mon Apr 18 13:38:26 2011. Before the new signaling was installed in Bkln, there were switches N/O Hoyt that allowed Lex Av trains to stop there during the midnight hours. With the new signaling, those switches were removed and Lex trains have since bypassed Hoyt at all times. |
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| (1056066) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 18 16:39:51 2011, in response to April 18, 1965, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Apr 17 19:32:31 2011. Wow - I remember those 3 TA members, O'Grady, Gilhooley and Scannell. Sounds like 3 Irish tenors.Interesting too that they used the "FAQ" format back in 1965. |
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| (1056068) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by BMTLines on Mon Apr 18 16:44:55 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 18 16:39:51 2011. Interesting too that they used the "FAQ" format back in 1965.The BMT used it in 1925 The more things change..... |
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| (1056111) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by 5119 on Mon Apr 18 18:58:47 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 18 15:32:54 2011. You right Randy, I remember seeing a train of Lo-V's stoppng at 23rd Street in April of 1962. I was wondering if the Number 6 started using the old cars again until I saw the sign Woodlawn-Jerome Ave. My father said that they're running local for a little while in order to finish construction of the 59th Street Express Station, which eventually opened in October of 1962. |
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| (1056228) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Apr 19 07:49:20 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 18 15:32:54 2011. This particular map dates from at least 1964 because the World's Fair is indicated, although the 7 line is not highlighted at all. |
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| (1056304) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 19 12:52:29 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Apr 18 13:24:31 2011. The 4 had a complicated service pattern as late as 1983. There was service to Flatbush during rush hours and overnights, service to Atlantic Ave. middays and service to Utica on weekends.To this day, I still never understood why the practice of terminating all Lex express service at Atlantic Ave during midday hours lasted so long (early 90's). |
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| (1056326) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Apr 19 13:49:32 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 19 12:52:29 2011. I always thought it was so they could lay up 4 and 5 trains on the southbound express track between Nostrand and Utica (the first train would actually be parked at the platform at Utica, probably operated in service to Utica, fumigated, then the crew moved on, then the other trains parked behind (after running to Atlantic and then running light from there on)). Looking back, it may have just been the case that the TA only wanted to run to Atlantic middays, and took advantage of the track space for layups (instead of running to Livonia yard, although I used to see some 4s and 5s layup at Livonia, some ran to Newlots in service, others light). |
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| (1056333) | |
Re: April 18, 1965 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Apr 19 14:44:34 2011, in response to Re: April 18, 1965, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Apr 19 13:49:32 2011. Back then, the 4 and 5 ran at a combined 12 TPH during the midday period, so both routes were needed to meet Lex demand from Brooklyn. When they decided to add off peak service to the #4 in the early 90's, it alone became sufficient to meet demand in Brooklyn and the #5 was cut back to Bowling Green. I guess they did not want one of the Lex routes having all different terminals during the day, so they ran nothing east of Atlantic.It really sucked for 2/3 riders. You had to take a local, no convenient transfer was available at Atlantic, and most seats were taken by the time the train left Atlantic for Nevins, where the cross platform x-fer was. |
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