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| (1013642) | |
70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 08:13:22 2010 This date in NYC Transit history - December 15, 1940 (70 years ago):The IND 6th Avenue subway line formally opens for service with these three routes... "BB" - Washington Heights-6th Avenue Local [168th St.-34th St., rush hours only]. "D" - Concourse-6th Avenue Express [205th St. Bronx-Hudson Terminal]. "F" - Queens-6th Avenue Express [Parsons Blvd.-Church Av.] IND 6th Ave./63rd St. Line. Also, on a related note, the "AA" Washington Heights-8th Avenue Local [168th St.-Hudson Terminal, non-rush hours] returns in service after a seven-year "hiatus". -William A. Padron ["Independent Subway System"] |
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| (1013668) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Andy on Wed Dec 15 08:55:38 2010, in response to 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 08:13:22 2010. It's worth noting, even though it has no doubt been mentioned on this site before, that the IND 6th Ave./34th Street Station was one of the most challenging tunneling projects ever constructed. It has to go around the H&M (today's PATH), go below the BMT, and go above the LIRR/PRR tunnels. And up till Dec. 1938 the 6th Ave. El was runnng as well, so it had to be underpinned.Next time at that station notice how the tracks dip in the middle to go under the BMT and then go up southward so they are alongside the PATH tunnels. |
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| (1013687) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 09:44:48 2010, in response to 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 08:13:22 2010. Technically, all three routes were locals on 6th Ave...Also, when did the D start running to Church Ave, with the F being cut back to Bway-Lafayette - and did they not do that to start? |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1013704) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Dec 15 09:56:01 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 09:44:48 2010. Also, when did the D start running to Church Ave, with the F being cut back to Bway-Lafayette - and did they not do that to start?Hi Lou: The date was October 30, 1954 which coincides with the hostile takeover by the IND of the BMT Culver Line between Ditmas Avenue and Coney Island. "D" train were extended to Coney Island via the Rutgers Street Tunnel 24/7 though certain trains were shortlined Church Avenue. The "F" was cut back to Broadway - Lafayette Street. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1013707) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Wed Dec 15 09:58:58 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Andy on Wed Dec 15 08:55:38 2010. Does anyone know at what point the inter-division IND/BMT transfer at 34th Street was created? I am wondering if it was there from the beginning, since the city had already taken over the BMT lines earlier in 1940, and given the construction complexity, it would have been much easier to have the transfer.As I recall the 34th Street mezzanine from the 1950s, it had some retail space in the area between the two divisons, but I don't recall if it physically separated them. In my recollection, it was possible to access the IND division from the entrance at Macy's corner, on the west (BMT) side of the station. But perhaps you crossed the former BMT mezzanine to reach the IND turnstiles on the east side of the station, and BMT fare control was on the north/sough axis. |
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| (1013717) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 10:06:05 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 09:44:48 2010. According to The JoeKorner.com website, the "D" started running to Church Avenue & Coney Island on October 30, 1954, with the "F" being cut back to Broadway-Lafayette on the same date. When the Board of Transportation issued its new map for the IND Division in 1940, it was the route services that I posted there as an original source.However, the service guide description seen on the 1948 Hagstrom published guide and map in the URL, as well as being displayed in NYC Transit Museum car #1575, has a different version by saying that the "D" was running to Church Avenue, the "E" to Broadway-Lafayette and the "F" to Hudson Terminal. I will have to refer to Joseph Cunningham/Leonard DeHart's 1977 book on the IND to backcheck for another clarification... 1948 Route Information. -William A. Padron ["E Bway"] |
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| (1013723) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 10:09:27 2010, in response to 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 08:13:22 2010. Technically, all three routes were locals on 6th Ave...Also, when did the D start running to Church Ave, with the F being cut back to Bway-Lafayette - and did they not do that to start? |
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| (1013725) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Dec 15 10:11:53 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Wed Dec 15 09:58:58 2010. Does anyone know at what point the inter-division IND/BMT transfer at 34th Street was created? I am wondering if it was there from the beginning, since the city had already taken over the BMT lines earlier in 1940, and given the construction complexity, it would have been much easier to have the transfer.On or about July 1, 1948 when the fare was raised from five cents to ten cents. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1013766) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:34:29 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Andy on Wed Dec 15 08:55:38 2010. The H&M station had to be relocated southward as well. There used to be a station at 28th which was eliminated since the south end of the new 33rd St. station extended to 30th St. two blocks away. Also one of the major water tunnels carrying water from the reservoirs traverses that area which made construction of the 6th Ave. line even more challenging. |
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| (1013829) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Dec 15 13:28:12 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Dec 15 09:56:01 2010. Interestingly, my 1948 Hagstrom's IND map lists the Ted as operating between 205th St. and Church Ave. and the Fred between Parsons Blvd. and Hudson Terminal. The Ethel ran between 169th St. and Broadway-Lafayette. |
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| (1013832) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Dec 15 13:29:26 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 10:06:05 2010. And then in November, the R-10s began thundering up CPW on the route they were meant for, the Abbott.:) |
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| (1013849) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 15 13:51:24 2010, in response to 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 08:13:22 2010. This is when the H&M was permanently impeded from ever extending to GCT, right . . . ? |
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| (1013860) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 14:08:36 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Wed Dec 15 09:58:58 2010. This brings something up I have always needed clarifying on: When the Dual Contracts were built, and stations like Times Square were built, you were always able to go from the BMT to the IRT there - you just went through a turnstile, and paid another nickel, right? Where were these located. and in 48, they just tore these turnstiles down, right? Or was it more complicated thing then that? |
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| (1013868) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 14:24:52 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 15 13:51:24 2010. Yeah, that is probably as one reason why that long mezzanine passageway between 35th Street and 40th Street under 6th Avenue, with an exit at 38th Street, was built. The H&M had proposed to extending its line up via 6th Avenue to GCT, with a station at 38th Street in between.-William A. Padron ["<-38th And 40th Sts.-<"] |
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| (1013886) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Wed Dec 15 15:25:54 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 10:06:05 2010. One of the issues of the subway map/service guide from some time in the 1940s shows the HH/Fulton St Lcl as operating between Court St and Bway/ENY even though the HH only operated as a shuttle between Hoyt and Court and that service ended before Bway/ENY even opened. That same map also shows the IND Fulton St Line open to Euclid so that particular issue has some obvious errors. |
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| (1013894) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 15:39:36 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Wed Dec 15 15:25:54 2010. Thanks, Randyo, for the clarification. So, it can be established then that the "D" started going to Church Avenue & Coney Island on 10/30/1954, and the "F" was cut back to Broadway-Lafayette on that same day. And such as it is...-William A. Padron ["Hagstrom...Where We Never Lose A Customer"] |
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| (1013931) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Dec 15 17:58:45 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 14:08:36 2010. The doubling of subway fare to a dime on 7.1.1948 had to be softened by eliminating some of the double-fare stations. Prior to that date, both at Herald Square and Times Square, you left one system, walked a few steps or more and reentered a separate fare zone. There were two sets of change agents, noticeably different turnstiles, and "old company" special decor. I recall going with my Dad on several explorations to see the new arrangement of what we now call fare control. Prior to that date, Dad would never, never switch from our IRT (home on Marble Hill) to another subway company if he could accomplish the trip on one nickle. |
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| (1013945) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 15 18:26:14 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 09:44:48 2010. I believe the main reason for substituting the D for the F when the Culver connection opened (instead of merely extending the F south to Coney Island) was because the F at the time used 11 car trains during rush hours and would not be able to fully platform on the ex-BMT stations. |
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| (1013946) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 15 18:28:26 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by William A. Padron on Wed Dec 15 14:24:52 2010. The H&M had any chance of a northern expansion impeded when the Broadway BMT opened. The Sixth Ave IND didn't really block it, the 34th St. station is at a much lower level than the H&M and theoretically could have been built underneath any extension north from 33rd. |
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| (1013960) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Dec 15 19:04:21 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Joe on Wed Dec 15 17:58:45 2010. A memory about the BB: The northbound runs began on the northbound express track at Herald Square. Mom sometimes used it because it offered a much better chance at getting a seat than on the Broadway-Seventh Avenue. So what if it made all stops and you had to transfer to the A or the Bwy-7th at 168 Street. Besides, you were riding the newer Independent subway system, noticeably cleaner. |
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| (1014078) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by subfan on Thu Dec 16 02:56:15 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 10:09:27 2010. I believe that the change of the D and the F in Brooklyn took place when the Culver El was "captured" by the IND. The El stations could only accomodate ten-car trains, and the F ran trains with eleven cars to better serve the Queens Blvd. line. Therefore, in order to be able to continue to use eleven-car trains in Queens, the D and F were flipped.subfan |
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| (1014079) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 03:04:43 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by subfan on Thu Dec 16 02:56:15 2010. The actual reason that the F and D were swapped was to provide Bronx riders with a one seat ride to Coney Island. |
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| (1014096) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 08:02:35 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 03:04:43 2010. The actual reason that the F and D were swapped was to provide Bronx riders with a one seat ride to Coney Island.At the time of the Culver transfer, 11-car F trains were operating during rush hours. The Culver stations were 600 feet long. |
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| (1014097) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 08:08:05 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Joe on Wed Dec 15 19:04:21 2010. Unless you were en express addict and loved the way the R-10s thundered past those seven local stops along CPW...:) |
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| (1014099) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 08:10:11 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Wed Dec 15 15:25:54 2010. That 1948 map has this footnote regarding Fred trains: "Note: F trains do not stop at Sutphin Blvd., Van Wyk Blvd. and 75th (Puritan) Ave." |
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| (1014101) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 08:12:28 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by murray1575 on Wed Dec 15 11:34:29 2010. IIRC that's the reason for the odd layout at 14th St. They wanted to keep the tracks as far away from that water tunnel as possible. |
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| (1014102) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 08:15:25 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Andy on Wed Dec 15 08:55:38 2010. Plus those platforms are among the longest ones anywhere in the system. They're both over 700 feet long. A n/b express platforms right at that interlocking signal on the platform. I can't tell you how many times I got thrown for a loop when waiting for a D train back in the day. I'd stand by the northernmost staircase waiting for a train, then had to move to that interlocking signal to board once the train pulled in. |
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| (1014121) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Thu Dec 16 08:51:35 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 03:04:43 2010. Accommodating Hylan's dream huh..... |
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| (1014152) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Thu Dec 16 10:24:46 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Dec 15 18:28:26 2010. Your`re both wrong.the long passageway between 34&42st IS the h&m`s extension towards GCT.I have posted the track maps here several times showing both the 42st ext.& the 9th st.ext.into the irt at astor pl.the 9th. st. tunnels extend about 250 feet from the visible portal. |
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| (1014171) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 11:12:28 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Wed Dec 15 10:09:27 2010. Technically, all three routes were locals on 6th Ave.No. Technically they were EXPRESS TRAINS. All 6th Avenue Stops *were* express stops. 
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| (1014175) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 11:25:32 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by tunnelrat on Thu Dec 16 10:24:46 2010. LION says the tunneling machine is parked in there. He thinks we should fire it up and take it for a test drive. Who knows, we could go all the way to 76th Street with it.
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| (1014202) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 12:22:25 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 08:12:28 2010. I thought that layout was due to the desire to turn 14th St into an express stop if/when the city got control of the H and M and kicked the Jersey trains off the Avenue. |
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| (1014204) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 12:24:43 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by tunnelrat on Thu Dec 16 10:24:46 2010. This is news to me. I will need more proff. |
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| (1014265) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 13:34:06 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 12:22:25 2010. That's entirely possible. OTOH at 23rd St. (which IIRC could also be converted to an express stop, if desired), the platforms face outwards. If I'm not mistaken, if you were to knock out the walls on the opposite side of each track, you'd see the PATH station. |
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| (1014268) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 13:35:14 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 11:12:28 2010. I think that since the BB made all local stops along CPW, it was designated as such - a 6th Ave. local. |
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| (1014314) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 14:51:27 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Thu Dec 16 13:35:14 2010. Yup, the BB and the FF were 6th Avenue LOCALS.BUT... 23rd Street and 14th Street *were* designated as EXPRESS Stations. The LOCAL trains terminated at 34th Street.
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| (1014346) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 16:43:23 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 08:02:35 2010. The Culver stations had to be lengthened anyhow since they could only have accommodated 8 X 67 ft cars, so it would have made sense to lengthen them to accommodate 11 car IND trains. AFAIK, the IND stations S/O ENY could only accommodate 10 car trains so the 11 car E trains that operated as far as Euclid could not open the 11th car there either. Even if 11 car Fs did operate on the Culver, since they had both a C/R and a rear guard either one of the end cars could have kept their side doors closed at those platforms that could only hold 10 cars. |
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| (1014347) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 16:45:13 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 14:51:27 2010. There never was a FF that was called by that designation although if double letters were still used the V would properly use that designation. |
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| (1014350) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Thu Dec 16 17:28:21 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by tunnelrat on Thu Dec 16 10:24:46 2010. If bob anderson is watching,please repost the maps I sent to you `bout 2 tears ago.they WERE posted here,you just don`t remember,KA-PISH? |
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| (1014372) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 18:56:20 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Thu Dec 16 16:43:23 2010. The Culver stations had to be lengthened anyhow since they could only have accommodated 8 X 67 ft cars, so it would have made sense to lengthen them to accommodate 11 car IND trainsThe rationale for re-routing the Culver via Rutgers St was to permit more trains on the Brighton, not to augment Culver service. The Queens Blvd line needed 11-car trains. The Culver did not. They had to extend the Culver platforms 64 feet to get to 600 feet. Extending them to 660 feet would have cost almost twice as much. AFAIK, the IND stations S/O ENY could only accommodate 10 car trains so the 11 car E trains that operated as far as Euclid could not open the 11th car there either. 11-car E trains never operated S/O ENY in regular revenue service. E service was extended to the Rockaways on 6/28/56. The arbitrator's decision left the TA with two choices: 2 conductors and 11-car trains or 1 conductor and 10-car trains. They opted for the latter before they extended E service to the Rockaways. they had both a C/R and a rear guard either one of the end cars could have kept their side doors closed at those platforms that could only hold 10 cars. Operating 11-car trains without an ability to lock out a car that will not platform is a non-starter. Trains do get re-routed in service. It's not a good policy in normal revenue service, when a line is supposed to operate 30+ tph. Extra dwell time at stations kills on time performance, especially since the criterion was 3 minutes late at the terminal in those days. The BOT spent a ton of money lengthening IRT express platforms to accommodate 10 car trains. They were not going backwards to introduce these problems on the IND. |
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| (1014385) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 16 19:48:41 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 18:56:20 2010. When the Rockaway extension opened in June 1956 they were able only to run short slow R-9 shuttles between Euclid and the Rockaways because of a power shortage caused by a Westinghouse strike. When the power problems ended in November 1956 they began running R-10 A's to the Rockaways. E's didn't run to the Rockaways until around 1959, after both the E's and F's had been shortened to 10 cars in 1958. |
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| (1014389) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 19:54:44 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 16 19:48:41 2010. E's didn't run to the Rockaways until around 1959, after both the E's and F's had been shortened to 10 cars in 1958.I thought the 11 car operations ended immediately after the 11th St. cut opened, which took some of the pressure off the 53rd St. trains. |
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| (1014398) | |
Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 20:15:41 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by VictorM on Thu Dec 16 19:48:41 2010. Service S/O ENY scorecard.11/28/48: A service extended from Bway-ENY to Euclid Ave 10/24/49: Rush hour service: A express Hoyt-Schermerhorn to Bway-ENY; E local to Bway-ENY; C service to Hoyt-Schermerhorn discontinued 4/27/56: A service extended from Euclid to Lefferts 6/28/56: Rush hours E extended from Bway-ENY to Wavecrest or Rockaway Park; non-rush hours shuttles from Euclid to Wavecrest or Rockaway Park 9/16/56: Rush hours A express Bway-ENY to Euclid; daytime A service to Lefferts, Wavecrest, Rockaway Park; nights shuttles Euclid to Wavecrest or Rockaway Park; E cut back to Euclid Ave 1/27/57: Non-Rush hours A train service to Lefferts and shuttle Euclid to Wavecrest or Rockaway Park 1/16/58: A (rush hours) and shuttles extended Wavecrest to Far Rockaway 9/8/58: E resumes rush hour service to Rockaways; A to Lefferts; night & Sat,Sun round robin shuttle service 10/11/58: daytime round robin shuttle service eliminated - 2 shuttles restored 9/8/59: A becomes rush hour local E becomes rush hour express 6/6/60: some E rush hour service to Lefferts 2/1/62: Rockaway Shuttle Service officially designated HH 7/9/66: non-rush hour A service extended to Far Rockaway; HH shuttle Rockaway Park to Broad Channel |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Thu Dec 16 21:24:36 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 19:54:44 2010. E's didn't run to the Rockaways until around 1959, after both the E's and F's had been shortened to 10 cars in 1958.E trains started running to the Rockaways starting on or about June 28, 1956. On September 16, 1956 E's were cut back to Euclid Avenue while the A's took over the Rockaway through service. Almost two years later on September 8, 1958 E's were once again extended to the Rockaways. The operation of eleven car trains lasted from 1953 to 1957. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Michael549 on Fri Dec 17 00:48:02 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 20:15:41 2010. So generally it can be inferred that local service operated at all times all of the years, but that on these dates (or after the above dates) the service operated or changed as indicated. Right?That is generally speaking the A-train operated as a local in Brooklyn, 24/7/365 - except as noted. Mike |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Dec 17 08:11:18 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 16 14:51:27 2010. Then again, the BB went only as far as 34th St., so the rationale may have been that since only express trains operated south of 34th, they could get away with listing 23rd and 14th as express stops. |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Fri Dec 17 13:35:16 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Dec 16 18:56:20 2010. According the the late ERA VP George Horn, 11 car Es did operate to Euclid. In all likelihood these were probably trains that had to lay up to Pitkin Yd at the end of the rush hour and rather than run light S/O ENY ran in service all the way to Euclid. |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Dec 17 16:02:52 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Randyo on Fri Dec 17 13:35:16 2010. In the 1960's about four "D" trains would run out to Pitkin in the AM rush and back in the PM rush. They ran express on the Fulton Street Line.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Randyo on Sat Dec 18 05:55:02 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Fri Dec 17 16:02:52 2010. When I attended Queens College in the 1960s, I would occasionally get one of those between 59 and 7 Ave in the AM. |
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Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Dec 18 15:05:59 2010, in response to Re: 70 Years Ago (12/15/1940) - IND 6th Avenue Line Opens, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Dec 16 12:22:25 2010. It was! Unfortunately for the City, the H&M had deliberately been built with steel ringed tunnels to encase their smaller cars.. This prevented the big railroads from taking it over, widening the tunnels, and running their full sized cars through it. I am surprised the the engineers who planned the proposed IND use of the H&M tunnels didn't realize this before construction began! Perhaps, we would not have to have waited until 1967 for 6th Ave express service between West 4th Street and 34th Street. |
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