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| Re: Guess the Location??...Not so easy!:) (1537255) | |||
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Re: Guess the Location??...Not so easy!:) |
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Posted by JOE @ NYCMTS - NYCTMG on Mon Feb 3 23:21:11 2020, in response to Re: Guess the Location??...Not so easy!:), posted by Handbrake on Mon Feb 3 20:42:17 2020. Hello HandbrakeVERY INTERESTING & INFORMATIVE !! This has raised some interesting questions - and may provide an obvious answer to disprove ONE of the delivery possibilities !! I have a number of photos dated 1927 to early 1928 showing the IRT Corona Yard and Shops being built and some of the then steel skeleton for the 2 track very long descending ramp to the IRT subway yards and shops under construction. Even a photo of a Composite car that accidentally rolled off the end of one of the uncompleted yard track leads on the skeleton ramp. And fell off the structure to the ground below. Lying on its side wrecked and collapsed. Dated in 1927 ! I just located those photos and checked them out carefully. NOTE: (**) Its long and well documented that were various plans between the PSC and LIRR & IRT between 1914 and 1924 for the IRT to take over the LIRR Port Jefferson Branch and make a connection from the IRT's Corona line (which then terminated at 103rd St Station) to the LIRR to run to Bayside and further. From what I read on this long span and lengthy, involved legal story - the IRT by 1928 finally dropped the whole plan completely. By then the IRT's Main St Flushing terminal from the EL had been completed. From what the 1924 aerial map and views you mentioned related, there now seems to be NO WAY AT ALL the IRT could have had a track connection at their future Corona Yard area -- because that Yard and Facility did NOT yet exist UNTIL 1927-28. Nor did the ramp from the El down to the planned yards. Therefore, NO BMT EL CAR DELIVERIES via that method possible !!!! FIVE YEARS AFTER the BMT Gate cars already were in shuttle service from April 1923 on the IRT Flushing & Astoria Lines lines. !!!! I now wonder if the 1915 created LI City "temporary" one track short connection between the LIRR LI City Sunnyside / Vernon Av. Yards and the IRT continued intact and kept open between 1915 and 1923-24. Perhaps with a removable fence to close the concrete wall opening where the single connective track was. And used for BMT EL Car deliveries as such !! Make more sense ! As we know and Steve (T Rat) mentioned -- there was a small IRT inspection shop on that site for IRT car maintenance for some time. After all, WHERE would the new Steinway subway cars be shopped BEFORE the Corona Yards and Shops opened in 1928 !! Perhaps via the 2nd Ave El (over the Q Boro Bridge) to the 2nd & 3rd Ave EL E.129th Street Shops and/or 3rd Ave El E. 99th Street main shops. As the IRT EL cars were done at that time. >>> THEREFORE - I NOW TEND TO BELIEVE -- in respect to all above - and in more logical sense based on all above - that the BMT EL Gate cars may have possibly been delivered via the LIRR "Long Island City Yards" to IRT at that well known and documented single track connection. And perhaps, more likely, my 1960 source (and his pal) were incorrect and possibly a bit confused in their "time frames" between the 5 year space of 1923 (the actual BMT deliveries) and 1928 (the actual Corona Yard opening parallel along the LIRR line)- they perhaps recalling (**) the 1914 thru 1928 PSC - IRT - LIRR ongoing plans I mentioned above about a planned IRT Corona EL to LIRR "revenue line" track connection and IRT Bayside route extension (NEVER built as facts tell us) This is long enough by now (heh - history some times is never always easy and simple) - and I will close here. And take back the LIRR to IRT Corona Yards track LINK possibility as an unfortunate error of a decades ago source .... for the sake of history accuracy !! THANK YOU for this very useful new info and new insights in"the history chain" .. and we are on our way to possibly solving this historical issue ! Regards - Joe F |
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