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| Re: Connecting Lenox Line to Polo Grounds Shuttle (1339180) | |||
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Re: Connecting Lenox Line to Polo Grounds Shuttle |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Feb 10 12:50:54 2015, in response to Re: Connecting Lenox Line to Polo Grounds Shuttle, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Feb 10 07:37:31 2015. Wallyhorse,I realize that you are playing a "what-if" game concerning the usage of the Polo Grounds shuttle, Yankee Stadium, and a possible connection to the #3 line. There are a few problems with your "what-if" scenario: a) The city was tearing DOWN elevated lines, Sixth Avenue, Ninth Avenue, Third Avenue, Second Avenue and in Brooklyn. The city by law had already decided that there would be no more building of elevated train lines in Manhattan decades ago. In your words: "The 145th Street station on the (3) would likely have been closed and a nearby above-ground station replacing it. As that has always been a short station anyway, I don't think that would have been as big of a deal." So the idea that a NEW above ground station would replace the 145th Street station was NEVER going to happen. Considering Harlem politics and political folk a new elevated subway was not going to happen. The 148th Street station opened BECAUSE of the absence of subway service with closing of the Ninth Avenue el, and the long distances to other nearby subway stations considering the number of large housing developments. A related question concerns the train yard at 148th Street, the original main train yard of the original IRT subway that opened in 1904. Building a platform at the train yard solved several problems in the area. In your scenario just how does the TA still use this important train yard? b) The idea that the heavily used #4 line would be disrupted, the station moved north, and rebuilt with two island platforms - exists in sheer fantasy. In addition the building of a flying junction to enable a set of relocated subway tracks and tunnels during a period when the TA is losing money, let alone the engineering feat required all equals "not happening!" At the 167th Street station on the #4 line are a set of switches that were used to return Polo Grounds Shuttle trains back to Manhattan. c) The basic problem with your idea was opened in 1933, and that is the C and CC trains, and about 10 years later the D-train. The IND Ground Concourse line insured that the #3 would not be extended to the Bronx. Why? Ever notice how on this forum when there is a question of the expansion of any of the IRT services there's always arguments about extending or using the BMT/IND type systems instead? Usually the arguments are IND-type trains are larger, wider, not-as-old, etc. Here you have an IND station serving the 155th Street station (the old Polo Grounds stadium), AND the 161st-Yankee Stadium, as well as traveling down the west-side of Manhattan, and servicing the Central Park West stations folks love to talk about. This made the Polo Grounds Shuttle not relevant, but an "old time relic" to be removed as soon as possible. d) In your words: "The tunnel in the Bronx that was part of the old Polo Grounds shuttle likely would have been worked on to accommodate wider trains." Utter fantasy! The issues with the width of the tunnels insured that the Polo Grunds shuttle would be dis-mantled. The only way to "widen the tunnel" is to dismantle it and re-build it - requiring the payment of good money to do so. This at a time when the TA is getting rid of relics? ------------ The idea of connecting the #3 line to the #4 in the Bronx while useful in terms of flexibility, turns out to be a not very practical idea especially when one takes into consideration the history, practices and policies of NYC and the TA. The best time for such an idea to be realized was during the planning of the original IRT subway system, and during the building of the Bronx transit lines. Then keeping an eye on all construction phases and operations so that an important is wide enough to support subway-width trains, or that elevated trains do not have make sharp curves through Harlem streets to connect the underground and elevated portions, among other details. |
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