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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by AlM on Sun Jan 8 19:00:30 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU threatens "war" with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 8 18:27:30 2012.

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Failure to sign a treaty can never be equivalent to a declaration of war. If it were, the treaty wouldn't be needed.

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(896766)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jan 8 19:37:42 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU threatens "war" with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 8 18:27:30 2012.

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England has enough brown people in it now to justify war against them!

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(896813)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:36:55 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU threatens "war" with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 8 18:27:30 2012.

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And so goes national sovereignty when first you subscribe to overly ambitious treaty organizations.

No one thinks of Europe as a superpower except, of course, the Europeans.

Orwell had it right, Oceania (the English-speaking world) is a community of interest. Eurasia (aka the EU) has different interests.

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(896814)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:38:01 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by RockParkMan on Sun Jan 8 18:56:03 2012.

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and pass the ammunition.

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(896816)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 20:40:41 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:38:01 2012.

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Wouldn't that be "admonition?" :)

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(896822)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 8 20:49:05 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:36:55 2012.

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No, the EU is very interested in power, which it shares with Oceania. Rememeber O'Brien's speech, "Power is not a means; it is an end . . . the object of power is power"?

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(896826)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:52:39 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jan 8 20:49:05 2012.

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We are at war with EUrasia. We've always been at war with EUrasia.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU is *this close* to bringing down US/global economy

Posted by ClearAspect on Sun Jan 8 20:54:24 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU is *this close* to bringing down US/global economy, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Dec 3 03:06:59 2011.

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Italy has been at even higher debt than what it is now, during the 90s they hovered around 120%. Fear is driving a lot of this, which compounds the situation, including ratings agencies. Makes bonds more expensive, makes it harder to pay off, its a suicidal cycle to pay off debt, its cheaper and less painful to abandon the Euro, declare default, and rebuild your currency which will be cheap allowing for cheaper exporting which will allow manufacturing to come back. 2.5 trillion is a bitter pill to swallow but overall for Italy its the best scenario.

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(896829)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 20:56:05 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 20:52:39 2012.

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And Winston Smith will cover it for FOX. :)

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(896837)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 21:14:05 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 20:56:05 2012.

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On the LIVE!! from Room 101 show now featuring dancing, singing rats,

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(896844)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 21:25:15 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 21:14:05 2012.

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Nah ... if FOX is gonna do it, it'll only go Geraldo style. :(



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(896850)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 21:35:13 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 21:25:15 2012.

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That looks more like the WWWF-World Wrestling Wrat Foundation.

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(896851)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 21:40:01 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SLRT on Sun Jan 8 21:35:13 2012.

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Geraldo seems to bring that out in everybody. :)

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(896892)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 9 05:33:44 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 8 20:56:05 2012.

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The Ministry of Truth: We report, we decide.

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(896893)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jan 9 05:40:10 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatens ''war'' with Britain if another veto is cast against treaty, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 9 05:33:44 2012.

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Indeed ... as an aside ... are you at Rutgers in Newark? I noticed a tie-in at linkedin, and didn't offer a connect until I could find out for real ...

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EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into "No. 1 bank" in Italy

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 10 18:02:23 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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Reuters

Mafia now "Italy's No.1 bank" as crisis bites: report

By James Mackenzie
Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:36pm EST
ROME (Reuters) — Organized crime has tightened its grip on the Italian economy during the economic crisis, making the Mafia the country's biggest "bank" and squeezing the life out of thousands of small firms, according to a report on Tuesday.

Extortionate lending by criminal groups had become a "national emergency," said the report by anti-crime group SOS Impresa.

Organized crime now generated annual turnover of about €140 billion ($178.89 billion) and profits of more than €100 billion, it added.

"With €65 billion in liquidity, the Mafia is Italy's number one bank," said a statement from the group, which was set up in Palermo a decade ago to oppose extortion rackets against small business.

Organized crime groups like the Sicilian Cosa Nostra, the Naples Camorra or the Calabrian 'Ndrangheta have long had a stranglehold on the Italian economy, generating profits equivalent to about 7 percent of national output.

Extortionate lending had become an increasingly sophisticated and lucrative source of income, alongside drug trafficking, arms smuggling, prostitution, gambling and racketeering, the report said.

"The classic neighborhood or street loan shark is on the way out, giving way to organized loan-sharking that is well connected with professional circles and operates with the connivance of high-level professionals," the report said.

It estimated about 200,000 businesses were tied to extortionate lenders and tens of thousands of jobs had been lost as a result.

Extortion With A Clean Face

Old-style gangsters handing out cash in bars and pool halls had been replaced by apparently respectable bankers, lawyers or notaries, the report said.

"This is extortion with a clean face," it added. "Through their professions, they know the mechanisms of the legal credit market and they often know the financial position of their victims perfectly."

Small businesses, who have struggled to get hold of credit during the economic slowdown, may have been increasingly tempted to turn to the mafia, said the report.

Typical victims of extortionate lending were middle-aged shopkeepers and small businessmen who would struggle to find a new job and who were ready to try anything to avoid bankruptcy, it added.

"They are usually people in traditional retail sectors like food, greengrocers, clothes or shoe shops, florists or furniture shops. These are the categories which, more than any other, are paying the price of the (economic) crisis," it said.

According to a separate report this week from small business association CNA, 56 percent of companies had seen banks tighten their lending requirements in the past three months. ($1 = €0.7826)

(Reporting By James Mackenzie; Editing by Ben Harding)


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 10 18:58:25 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into "No. 1 bank" in Italy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 10 18:02:23 2012.

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I'd take the Mafia over Goldman any day.

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EUEUEUEUEU crisis benefiting Germany greatly (and nobody else)

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jan 10 22:50:05 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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Der Spiegel

01/10/2012
Profiting from Pain

Europe's Crisis Is Germany's Blessing

By Stefan Schultz

Its neighbors may be suffering, but the euro crisis has created conditions that actually benefit the German economy. Not only is the government enjoying the windfall of negative interest rates on bonds, but unemployment is down and exports are booming.

It's every debtor's dream. When asked for a loan, the bank not only agrees, but actually pays the borrower for their patronage. It sounds like a fairy tale, as though the laws of the market economy had been suspended. But on Monday it really happened.

The debtor in this case was the German government, which borrowed €3.9 billion ($5 billion) for the next six months at the unbelievable interest rate of -0.01 percent. Even the German Finance Agency was stunned. "This has never happened before," a spokesperson said.

The Finance Ministry should be pleased. In the last four years, they've had to shell out around 1.8 percent in interest for such bonds. But recently even interest rates on German bonds with longer maturities have decreased significantly. The federal government is saving a bundle.

The reason for the windfall? Amid the ongoing euro crisis, Germany is one of the few borrowers that are still regarded as a safe haven. Many investors would rather lend the government money at bargain-basement rates than risk losses.

Half of Europe Suffers While Germany Profits

Other countries can only fantasize about such a bonanza. Italy is currently being forced to pay record interest rates of some 7 percent on 10-year government bonds because investors lack confidence in the government in Rome. Questions remain over whether Prime Minister Mario Monti will succeed in reducing the government's €1.9 trillion mountain of debt without stifling the economy. Meanwhile bond yields in crisis-stricken countries like Spain and Ireland have also risen sharply.

It has become a rule of the euro crisis: While a number of eurozone countries suffer, Germany profits. The crisis may slow economic growth in Germany, but there are also a raft of crisis-related mechanisms that help the country profit at the expense of other nations. As long as a big eurozone crash doesn't materialize, this cushions the effects of the downturn for Germany.

A recent projection by the Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research found that the economies of France, Spain, Italy, Belgium, Greece, Portugal and Cyprus would likely shrink in 2012. The German economy, on the other hand, is still expected to grow by 0.4 percent this year.

The imbalance between Germany and many other eurozone countries is most apparent on the job market, though. eurozone unemployment now averages 10.3 percent, but in Germany the figure sank to 7.1 percent for 2011. Last year, just under 3 million unemployed people were registered out of 82 million residents in Germany. By contrast, the number of unemployed in Spain recently reached 4.42 million out of just 45 million residents.

German Firms Profit from Weak Euro

As mass protests form in Spain due to high unemployment among young people, Germany is benefiting from an influx of new skilled professionals. An increasing number of southern Europeans looking for work are heading north to prosperous Germany. The number of Greek immigrants rose by 84 percent in the first half of 2011 to reach some 4,100 people, according to the Federal Statistical Office. The total number of immigrants rose by 19 percent year-on-year for that time period, reaching 435,000.

But that's not all. Indirectly, Germany also profits from a simple symptom of the crisis — the weak euro, which has fallen to about $1.27, its lowest value since Sept. 2010.

For German companies, the sinking euro acts as a kind of crisis buffer. While it reduces demand for German products within the eurozone, these make up only around 40 percent of the country's exports. But for the rest of the world, a weak euro means cheaper German products, which means they're more competitive.

Indeed, German exports grew by 2.5 percent month-on-month in November, reaching €94.9 billion. Compared to a year earlier, exports were up by an impressive 8.3 percent. The crisis notwithstanding, exports for 2011 as a whole surpassed the historic trillion-euro level, a benchmark not even reached during the boom year of 2008.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by JayMan on Wed Jan 11 08:20:59 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 10 18:58:25 2012.

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LOL! Damn. The devil you know?

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(897789)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by SMAZ on Wed Jan 11 09:06:46 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 10 18:58:25 2012.

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you beat me to it.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 11 13:26:35 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jan 10 18:58:25 2012.

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Yup, and they'd take you to the concrete shoemaker if you "defaulted". Goldman at least wouldn't do that.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jan 11 16:13:03 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by JayMan on Wed Jan 11 08:20:59 2012.

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The Mafia at least has SOME ethical code. :)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jan 11 16:14:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jan 11 13:26:35 2012.

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Correct. Goldman merely puts you out on the street and makes sure that nobody will ever loan you money again, nor rent you an apartment because your credit rating has been destroyed. You sure do live in one whacky fantasy world, yo ... Mafia will at least let you work things out to everyone's benefit.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jan 11 16:19:57 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU crisis makes Mafia into ''No. 1 bank'' in Italy, posted by SMAZ on Wed Jan 11 09:06:46 2012.

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Poor Olog ... he needs some "friends in Pennsylvania" ... :)

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EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 12 02:26:02 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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Yup, they've made it back from cyberdeath. Given their predictions here, I do have to wonder if the cyberattack credited to "anonymous" had some governmental backers in certain countries . . . ?

Europe

The European Union and eurozone will survive 2012, and Europe's financial crisis will stabilize, at least temporarily. However, Stratfor expects Europe to continue its long, painful slide into deepening recession. We expect accelerating capital flight out of peripheral European countries as investors in Europe and farther afield lose confidence in the European system. We expect financial support measures to be withdrawn on occasion to maintain pressure on governments to implement austerity, which will lead to financial scares and extreme volatility.

However, the driving force behind developments in Europe in 2012 will be political, not economic. Germany, seeing an opportunity in the ongoing financial crisis, is using its superior financial and economic position to attempt to alter the eurozone's structure to its advantage. The core of this "reform" effort is to hardwire tight financial controls into as many European states as possible, both in a new intergovernmental treaty and in each state's national constitution. Normally, we would predict failure for such an effort: Sacrificing budgetary authority to an outside power would be the most dramatic sacrifice of state sovereignty yet in the European experiment — a sacrifice that most European governments would strongly resist. However, the Germans have six key advantages in 2012.

First, there are very few scheduled electoral contests, so the general populace of most European states will not be consulted on the exercise. Of the eurozone states, only France, Slovakia and Slovenia face scheduled national elections. Out of these three, France is by far the most critical: The Franco-German partnership is the core of the European system, and any serious breach between the two would herald the end of the European Union. If Germany is to compromise on its efforts for anyone, it will be for France, and if France needs another country in order to secure its own position in Europe, it needs Germany. Consequently, the two have chosen to collaborate rather than compete thus far, and we expect their partnership to survive the year. Luckily for the German effort, French elections will be at the very beginning of the ratification process, so any possible modifications to the German plan will come early.

Second, Germany only needs the approval of the 17 eurozone states — rather than the 27 members of the full European Union — to forward its plan with credibility. That the United Kingdom has already opted out is inconvenient for those seeking a pan-European process, but it does not derail the German effort.

Third, the process of approving a treaty such as this will take significant time, and some aspects of the reform process can be pushed back. European leaders are expected to sign the new treaty in March, and the rest of the year and some of 2013 will be used to seek ratification by individual countries. Amending national constitutions to satisfy Germany will be the bitterest part of the process, but much of that can be put off until 2013, and judgment by European institutions over how the revision process was handled comes still later. Such delays allow political leaders the option of pushing back the most politically risky portions of the process for months or years.

Fourth, the Germans are willing to apply significant pressure. Nearly all EU states count Germany as the largest destination for their exports, and such exports are critical for local employment. In 2011, Germany used its superior economic and financial position as leverage to help ease the elected leaderships of Greece and Italy out of office, replacing them with unelected former EU bureaucrats who are now working to implement aspects of the German program. Similar pressures could be brought to bear against additional states in 2012.

Those most likely to clash with Germany are Ireland, Finland, the Netherlands and Spain. Ireland wants the terms of its bailout program to be softened and is threatening a national referendum that could derail the ratification process. Finland's laws require parliamentary approval by a two-thirds majority for some aspects of ratification. The normally pro-European government of the Netherlands is a weak coalition that can only rule with the support of other parties, one of which is strongly euroskeptic. Spain must attempt the most painful austerity efforts of any non-bailout state if the reform process is to have credibility — and it must do so amid record-high unemployment and a shrinking economy. Also, if Greece decides to hold new elections in 2012, European stakeholders will attempt to ensure that the new government in Athens does not end its collaboration with the European Central Bank (ECB), European Commission and International Monetary Fund. None of these issues will force an automatic confrontation, but all will have to be managed to ensure successful ratification, and the Germans have demonstrated that they have many tools with which to compel other governments.

Fifth, the Europeans are scared, which makes them willing to do things they would not normally do — such as implementing austerity and ratifying treaties they dislike. Agreeing to sacrifice sovereignty in principle to maintain the European economic system in practice will seem a reasonable trade. The real political crisis will not come until the sacrifice of sovereignty moves from the realm of theory to application, but that will not occur in 2012. In many ways, the political pliability of European governments now is all about staving off unbearable economic catastrophe for another day.

The economic deferment of that pain is the sixth German advantage. Here, the primary player is the ECB. The financial crisis has two aspects: Over-indebted European governments are lurching toward defaults that would collapse the European system, and European banks (the largest purchasers of European government debt) are broadly insolvent — their collapse would similarly break apart the European system. In December, the ECB indicated that it was willing to put up 20 billion euros ($28 billion) a week for sovereign bond purchases on secondary markets to support struggling eurozone governments, while extending low-interest, long-term liquidity loans to European banks in unlimited volumes. The bond program is large enough to potentially purchase three-fourths of all expected eurozone government debt issuances for 2012, while the first day of the loan program extended €490 billion in fresh credit to ailing banks.

Together these two measures make a eurozone financial meltdown highly unlikely in 2012, but they will greatly degrade European competitiveness and efficiency. That will be a problem for another time, though. For now, ECB actions are buying economic and political breathing room: economic in that austerity efforts can be somewhat softer than they would otherwise need to be, and political in that there is a feeling that Germany is willing to compromise somewhat on the issues of budgetary discipline today in order to achieve its broader goals of budgetary control tomorrow. Therefore, while the financial support is not exactly buying good will from other European states, it is certainly buying time.

As the ratification process proceeds, European hostility toward Germany and Brussels will increase. Internationally, the key theme will be states attempting to protect themselves from what they see as a growing — and unwelcome — German intrusion into their internal affairs. At the national level, deepening austerity will generate anger toward governments. The relative dearth of elections will deny that anger its normal release valve of centrist opposition parties, emboldening nationalist and extremist movements and leading to social unrest.

Political and financial turbulence will persist within this framework as Germany negotiates the new treaty with other eurozone countries. Though the core of these negotiations is a highly contentious abdication of national fiscal sovereignty, Europe is highly likely to adopt the new treaty since a perceived failure would dramatically accelerate the collapse of EU political structures and implementation will not happen in 2012.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 12 02:30:18 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 12 02:26:02 2012.

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Gee ... if only Stratfor, known for "security" issues, only had some competent people who knew about "security" they wouldn't have been gone so long. But now that they're back, their next attack seems imminent. And looks like the "hackers" were in INDIA. Everybody's software and antivirus is managed in India these days, and so ... :)

And the Indian government's "security" ... LOL

We've been quite busy over at infosecisland.com writing about it all.

Stratfor ... LOL

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 12 02:32:54 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 12 02:30:18 2012.

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Oh ... and if you happen to go over there, that guy in the blue shirt against the stone wall with the shit-eating grin? That's me. :)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 12 02:34:59 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 12 02:26:02 2012.

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As to the economics matters, if only they'd listened to Krugman. But you and your pals keep selling him as a commie, so reap the whirlwind of your political garbage ... USA is NEXT for this shit. :(

Betcha Stratfor won't say THAT though. :(

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EUEUEUEUEU and their Tobin Tax . . . (long)

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 12 03:16:29 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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Rather draconian idea, and it's only intended to enrich people at the top rather than to fix anything.

Der Spiegel

01/11/2012
Taking on the Speculators

What Would a European Tobin Tax Really Mean?

By Stefan Kaiser

Angela Merkel and Nicolas Sarkozy are pressing forward with plans to introduce a financial transaction tax in the EU — if necessary without Britain, home to Europe's largest financial center. Critics believe it will cause an exodus of the industry from the eurozone. But a closer look at the proposal suggests the worst wouldn't necessarily come true.

The idea is age-old, but its time may soon be coming. A tax on financial transactions could help to stem short-term speculation on the markets. French President Nicolas Sarkozy wants to push the tax through in Europe — if necessary even without Britian, which has doggedly resisted such measures. Sarkozy picked up a new ally for the plan this week as well: German Chancellor Angela Merkel is also willing to venture going it alone to implement the tax exclusively within the 17 members of the eurozone. It would not directly apply to London, Europe's most important financial center.

Ironically, it was a Briton who first came up with the idea for such a tax. In 1936, economist John Maynard Keynes suggested using the tax in order to curb speculation. In the 1970s, American economist James Tobin's work on the issue brought the proposed tax to the attention of the left and critics of globalization. The so-called "Tobin tax" was a founding demand of the Paris-based, globalization-critical network ATTAC, whose acronym stands in French for "Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions and for Citizens' Action."

In the meantime, the idea has also picked up some prominent advocates, including the American Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz. Last year, Stiglitz told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung newspaper: "I am convinced that if Germany, France, Spain and Italy were to implement the financial transaction tax together, it would work."

But what would the tax look like? What are the objectives behind it? And what are the downsides? SPIEGEL ONLINE answers the most pressing questions.

How Would the Tax Work?

The European Commission, the EU's executive, has proposed implementing a tax starting in 2014 on all transactions involving stocks, bonds and derivatives that are conducted between financial institutions. It would apply to banks, insurance companies, investment funds, stockbrokers and hedge funds, among other financial firms.

The taxes would be paid by both partners in the transaction, the seller and the buyer. For stocks, a tax of 0.1 percent has been proposed. For derivatives, such as, for example, futures or credit default swaps (CDS), the tax would be 0.01 percent.

So, if a bank were to sell stocks worth €100,000 to a hedge fund, each would have to pay €100 in tax on the transaction. If, on the other hand, a manufacturer of heavy equipment were to buy a currency futures contract worth €100,000 to protect itself against fluctuations in the euro-dollar exchange rate, it would have to pay €10, as would the bank that was its party in the contract.

What Is the Tax Meant to Achieve?

The tax has two aims. First and foremost, it is hoped that it will slow down overwrought financial markets. Particularly due to the spread of electronic trading, the number of transactions has increased dramatically in recent years. In 2010, for example, fully $63 trillion (€50 trillion) worth of stock traded hands on the global markets. On currency markets, it was $1 quadrillion. Computer programs send millions worth of securities and derivatives back and forth each second in order to take advantage of the smallest of price differentials. The profits per trade are tiny, but once multiplied by the sheer volume of trades, they become substantial.

But such rapid trading can quickly become a problem for market stability. Because computer traders jump at the slightest of trends, they magnify the market's already-present herd mentality. Prices can spike or plummet within mere minutes.

The planned tax would have a significant impact on such trades. If traders were forced to pay a mini-tax on each transaction, many deals would no longer be worth it. Prices would become more stable as a result, politicians hope.

The second aim is that of forcing the financial world to share in the costs created by the crisis. The European Commission estimates that an EU-wide tax would generate up to €57 billion per year. Without Britain's participation, however, revenues would be much lower.

Furthermore, the two aims are, at least in part, mutually exclusive. Should the first aim be reached and the numbers of transactions fall, financial transaction tax revenues would necessarily fall as a result. It is a similar problem encountered by all taxes that are designed in part to control behavior — such as the environmental tax on fossil fuels in Germany or the tobacco tax on cigarettes.

Financial experts warn against pinning too much hope on the financial transaction tax. It has, they say, little to do with the realities of the current crisis. Such a tax would not have prevented the collapse of the US investment bank Lehman Brothers nor would it have stopped countries, banks and citizens in the Western world from amassing huge piles of public and private debt. The tax, warns Stephan Schulmeister of the Austrian Institute of Economic Research, which analyzed the likely effects of the plan, is not a panacea.

Can the Plan Work without Great Britain?

One of the most important points of criticism of the financial transaction tax is the fear that it will cause an investor exodus from Europe. According to that line of thinking, if the tax were only introduced in the EU, it would merely cause banks and funds to shift their operations to New York, Zόrich or Singapore. And if it were only applied within the 17-member eurozone, then London would be the easiest and most logical destination for this migration.

Britain today is already one of the world's most-important financial centers. For example, it is there that more than one-third of all foreign currency transactions are processed. Almost every major bank within the eurozone has a major office in London. Take Germany's Deutsche Bank. The bank's branch in London has become almost as important to the company as its headquarters in Frankfurt.

But the European Commission has already sought to address concerns of a possible exodus with its proposal. Under the plan, the determining factor in applying the tax would not be the place where the financial deal is processed, but rather the location of the participating trading partners. If one side has its headquarters in a eurozone country, then both partners would have to pay the tax. This would also apply if the transaction were processed in London, Singapore or the Cayman Islands.

This provision would complicate efforts to circumvent the tax. Indeed, Deutsche Bank might be able to move its headquarters from Frankfurt to London without much trouble, but if it wanted to conduct a transaction with a Paris-based bank, it would still have to pay the tax.

Do Any Countries Have Experience with Similar Laws?

Germany itself used to have a stock exchange turnover tax — with a 0.25 percent tax due on transactions involving stocks and a tax of 0.1 percent on bonds. But German government bonds and trading between banks were excluded from the legislation, and the proceeds remained relatively paltry. The government repealed the tax in 1991.

Sweden had a much worse experience with a similar levy. In 1984, the country introduced a 1 percent stock market transaction tax. In the subsequent years, the amount was increased, but revenues still remained low. Many investors fled the Stockholm stock exchange only to return after the Swedish government repealed the law in 1991. That's one reason that Sweden, along with Britain, is one of the most vehement opponents of the tax. The Danes, who currently hold the rotating six-month presidency of the EU, are also skeptical of the plans by Merkel and Sarkozy.

Britain itself still has a tax on trading of shares — the so-called Stamp Duty Reserve Tax of 0.5 percent of the sale price. It currently generates revenues of around €5 billion per year. With the introduction of a Europe-wide transaction tax, the charge would also be applied to other securities and to foreign exchange markets. Indeed, that is precisely what the British government wants to prevent.

What Disadvantages Would the Tax Have?

Critics of financial transaction taxes fear considerable negative effects. They argue there is a danger not only of investors fleeing to financial centers outside of Europe, but also that they might eschew established stock exchanges and instead conduct deals directly with each other. Under the European Commission proposal, such over-the-counter trades (OTC) would still be subject to the tax. But in practice it could prove tough to enforce, because the transactions are difficult to monitor and detect.

German exporters also complain that the tax would make the currency trades they conduct in order to safeguard their foreign sales against exchange rate fluctuations more expensive.

Private investors could also be affected. Their dealings would not be directly taxed, but financial industry players have already made clear that they will pass the rising costs on to consumers. When an investor buys stock worth €1,000, he or she can expect that the €1 due in taxes will be passed on.

Another point of criticism starts with one of the declared goals of the advocates of the tax, which is to prevent wild fluctuations in the financial markets. If the tax were to cause the number of traded securities to decrease, the critics argue, the fluctuations would increase. A simple assumption lies behind that reasoning: When there are fewer buyers and sellers in a market, price fluctuations will be stronger than if there were many participants. The advocates of the tax reject this argument. They assume that, despite the tax, there will be enough traders in the market to ensure stable prices.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Jan 12 09:08:10 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU per 57R47F0R's 2012 forecast, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 12 02:26:02 2012.

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HAHA!!

STRATFOR!!!

I think some random ChixWithDix website is safer than that.

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(899186)

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EUEUEUEUEU gets *big credit downgrade*—Brussels, Beijing slam ratings agencies

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 14 12:28:12 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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So the ratings agencies ought to just go after the "Anglosphere" and leave them untouched. Oh, those hypocrites. (S&P downgraded nine countries.)

EurActiv

Rehn slams 'inconsistent' credit rating downgrades

Jeremy Fleming
Published 14 January 2012
France and Austria lost their triple-A credit ratings yesterday evening — an ill-starred Friday 13th January — as seven other eurozone countries were also downgraded by US-based credit rating agency Standard & Poor's (S&P).

The move was described by European leaders as 'political' and 'inconsistent', and China claimed the move cast doubt on the credibility of credit ratings agencies.

The two triple-A economies were nudged down one notch by S&P, to AA+, but retain top AAA rating from the other two main ratings agencies, Moody's and Fitch.

Two notches were struck from the ratings of Italy (to BBB+), Spain (to A), Cyprus (to BB+) and Portugal (to BB), while Germany kept its AAA rating, with a stable outlook. One notch was knocked from Malta (to A−), Slovakia (to A) and Slovenia (to A+).

Rumors of S&P's move prompted stock market volatility earlier in the day, but there was some stabilization before markets closed.

Austrian bank chief says move was political

S&P cited Austria's economic exposure to recession-struck Italy, and banking exposure to debt-riddled Hungary, as reasons.

But the head of the Bank of Austria described the move to downgrade so many countries in the eurozone simultaneously as 'clearly political', a sentiment echoed by the country's finance minister.

"Today's rating actions are primarily driven by our assessment that the policy initiatives that have been taken by European policymakers in recent weeks may be insufficient to fully address ongoing systemic stresses in the eurozone," said S&P in its statement.

The agency said the plan currently being discussed by eurozone leaders — to limit governments' future borrowing — was based on a misdiagnosis of the cause of the financial crisis. It said the crisis was more to do with trade deficits and a loss of competitiveness by "periphery" eurozone economies such as Italy and Spain, than excess borrowing by governments.

Not a catastrophe for France

But Economic Affairs Commissioner, Olli Rehn, said that he regretted S&P's 'inconsistent decision' made "at a time when the euro area has taken decisive action in all fronts of its crisis response."

Michael Fuchs, deputy leader of the ruling German Christian Democrats, said: "This step is out of order. Standard and Poor's must stop playing politics. Why doesn't it act on the highly indebted United States or highly indebted Britain?"

He added: "If the agency downgrades France, it should also downgrade Britain in order to be consistent."

"It's not good news, but it's not a catastrophe," French finance minister Francois Baroin said following emergency talks called by President Nicolas Sarkozy with the prime minister and other key ministers.

He said the French government would not change policy course as a result, adding: "It's not ratings agencies that decide French policy."

Chinese join in criticism of S&P

Official Chinese channels also condemned the S&P decision. News agency Xinhua, which often represents the Chinese government's official view, said in a commentary: "The Standard and Poor's (S&P) downgrade move, though containing some legitimate concerns, also raised fresh doubts over the credibility of ratings agencies."

"As the crisis is showing tentative signs of receding, the S&P's overwhelming downgrade has once again weighed on the market and dented investors' confidence," Xinhua said.

The downgrades — especially of Austria and France — will put pressure on the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), which has already been used to rescue Portugal and the Irish Republic. The EFSF is guaranteed by the eurozone governments, and therefore relies on their creditworthiness.


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EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over "land grab" of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 04:43:39 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU Olog, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Nov 12 14:58:17 2011.

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. . . but of course they try to redefine it as "Palestinian farmland" when no Palestinians were farming it and it was designated as being under full Israeli civilian and military control under the Oslo Accords. The EU is an antisemitic empire.

EU Observer

EU ministers look to Israeli grab of Palestinian farmland

13.01.12 @ 09:24
By Andrew Rettman
BRUSSELS — EU countries are preparing to criticize Israel on "forced transfer" of Palestinians out of the most fertile farmland in the occupied West Bank.

The EU statement is currently being prepared by mid-level diplomats in the EU Council in Brussels and is to form part of formal conclusions at an EU foreign ministers' meeting on 23 January.

The text is based on an internal report by EU heads of mission in Israel which looks at developments in the so-called Area C in the West Bank.

One EU diplomat told EUobserver the EU-27 — including pro-Israeli countries like the Netherlands and the Czech Republic — already endorsed a demarche to Israeli authorities on the subject on 22 December.

Area C covers 62 percent of the occupied West Bank, and was designated by the Oslo Accords in the 1990s as being under full Israeli civilian and military control.

The EU heads of mission report — seen by EUobserver — notes that between 200,000 and 320,000 Palestinians used to live in the Jordan Valley, most of which is in Area C, in 1967, but demolition of Palestinian homes and prevention of new buildings has seen the number drop to 56,000.

In a similar period, the Jewish population in Area C has grown from 1,200 to 310,000.

"The window for a two-state solution is rapidly closing with the continued expansion of Israeli settlements and access restrictions for Palestinians in Area C [which] compromises crucial natural resources and land for the future demographic and economic growth of a viable Palestinian state," the text says.

It adds that Israeli policy amounts to "forced transfer of the native population" from its "most fertile and resource rich land."

EU foreign affairs spokeswoman Maja Kocjancic confirmed that the leaked report is authentic, but said it is "too early" to guess what foreign ministers will say.

A Brussels-based Israeli diplomat said the EU should concentrate on promoting Israeli-Palestinian peace talks instead of talking about settlements.

"It is not always helpful to put all this emphasis on this one issue, which should be left for the negotiations. Now that there are some promising signs the EU should not focus on, I would even say prejudge, the outcome of negotiations on any one core issue," he said, referring to recent meetings between Israeli and Palestinian envoys in Jordan.

Area C is a novelty in terms of EU policy after previous EU heads of mission reports in Israel concentrated on settlement activity in occupied East Jerusalem. The new twist was a Swedish initiative.

EU diplomats in recent weeks also took Israel to task on new laws limiting the rights of Arab Israeli citizens inside Israel proper.

Their internal paper on the subject — seen by EUobserver — said: "We should emphasize that addressing inequality within Israel is integral to Israel's long-term stability."

The Israeli parliament, the Knesset this week rejected a petition to drop a law preventing Arab Israelis who marry people from the other side of the green line from bringing their new families to live in Israel.

Arab Israeli MP Mohammed Barakeh told Haaretz: "This law, which differentiates between people in a repulsive, racist fashion ... denies Arabs their right to choose their life partner."

Otniel Schneller, an MP from the centrist opposition party, Kadima, told the Jerusalem Post the law "articulates the rationale of separation between the [two] peoples and the need to maintain a Jewish majority and the [Jewish] character of the state."


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 08:46:16 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over "land grab" of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 04:43:39 2012.

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Much of the world, and Europe in particular, feels it has the right to specify where Jews can live and even whether Jews can live. This hasn't changed since the Middle Ages; hasn't changed since the Holocaust. Europe is nearly Judenrein, isn't that enough for them?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by AlM on Mon Jan 16 10:14:52 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 08:46:16 2012.

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Europeans may be a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to criticizing Israel. But that doesn't justify the West Bank settlements.


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(899734)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 13:57:54 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by AlM on Mon Jan 16 10:14:52 2012.

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It is none of Europe's business.

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(899738)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 14:05:51 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by AlM on Mon Jan 16 10:14:52 2012.

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What are you BSing about?

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(899740)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 14:08:24 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 13:57:54 2012.

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Precisely. Ain't they sounding like they're gearing up for a crusade with this rhetoric?

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(899742)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 14:18:11 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 13:57:54 2012.

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Then why is it yours?

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(899743)

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EUEUEUEUEU Commission now says they know better than the ratings agencies

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 14:20:29 2012, in response to EUEUEUEUEU gets *big credit downgrade*—Brussels, Beijing slam ratings agencies, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jan 14 12:28:12 2012.

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They claim to have info that the ratings agencies don't. But they say it'd take too much time to make available . . .

EU Observer

EU Commission: We know better than ratings agencies

2012.01.16 @ 14:00
By Andrew Rettman
BRUSSELS — The European Commission has claimed it has secret information about the positive state of EU countries' finances, following a shock downgrade of core member states.

Commission spokesman Olivier Bailly made the statement at a regular press briefing in Brussels on Monday (16 January), two days after US-based agency Standard & Poor's (S&P) downgraded nine EU countries, including France.

"We have more information than the ratings agencies and we think there are elements missing in their analysis ... We have monthly updates from member states. We share this information on a confidential basis. The ratings agencies do not have this information," he said.

When challenged on why Brussels does not make the good news public, he answered it would take too much time.

"We cannot publish every day all the information we have, otherwise we would be commenting on this information and on market reactions every day and I'm sure we have more important things to do. Beyond the daily comments we need to see the [bigger] perspective and this is what we are here for."

Bailly noted the S&P decision was "very odd as far as timing is concerned ... indeed [it was] a strange timing."

Economic affairs commissioner Olli Rehn recently told Finnish TV that some speculators have cashed in on euro instability. But Bailly explained that he was referring to better-than-expected bond auctions in Italy and Spain rather than some kind of market conspiracy.

Whether or not his comments reassure investors remains to be seen. But rival ratings agency Moody's on Monday went against S&P and kept its triple-A rating on France unchanged for now.

One of S&P's main reasons for the downgrade is that EU austerity plans risk becoming "self-defeating" by stopping consumers from spending and preventing economic recovery.

Bailly said EU countries do not have enough money to launch fiscal stimulus programs and that growth will have to come from "structural reforms" — like creating a new EU digital market — a few years down the line.

But for his part, EU Council chief Herman Van Rompuy also on Monday lent weight to S&P's warning.

He said in a written statement after meeting Italian leader Mario Monti that: "We should refocus on growth and job creation. Growth-friendly consolidation and job-friendly growth are what we need!"

Van Rompuy noted the EU has held 13 summits on the crisis in the past two years.

He predicted that EU leaders will at the 14th one on 30 January agree a treaty on fiscal discipline and sign it in March.

He added that the EU's new bailout fund, the ESM, will be up and running in July rather than 2013 as originally planned.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 14:36:09 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 14:18:11 2012.

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Brilliant retort, rebbe.

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(899749)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 14:48:35 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 14:18:11 2012.

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He's not Europe. You saying it should be Europe's business at all?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 15:19:43 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 14:48:35 2012.

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Is he any less of an outsider than Europe?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 15:19:55 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 14:36:09 2012.

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What about answering the question?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 15:29:50 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 15:19:43 2012.

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Now you're talking in terms of "outsiders"? and painting all such "outsiders" with the same brush? That's called jingoism, you know.

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Jan 16 16:10:06 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 15:29:50 2012.

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Next thing you know, WMATAGMOAGH will claim that the palestinians were farming that land for hundreds of years, and other hilarious stuff.



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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 16:15:14 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 15:29:50 2012.

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Funny how you want Europe to mind its own business but you have no problem if you or the US government wants to get in to someone else's...

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 16:57:55 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 15:19:55 2012.

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I fairly succinctly indicated the reason Europe has no standing to dictate to Jews anywhere where they can and cannot live.

I therefore answered your question in my original post and you, rebbe, true to your calling, are once again deciding who can and cannot post in this august venue, and on what subjects.

Now you can answer a question for me: How do you feel about Zionism, historically or currently? I think it's a fair question to ask a Jew who has chosen to live in Israel.


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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 16:59:24 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 15:19:43 2012.

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You completely blew by the historical context, which reveals quite a bit about your own POV.

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(899777)

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by SLRT on Mon Jan 16 17:01:31 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jan 16 16:15:14 2012.

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Was the U.S. or any person on this board the venue for the historic murder and oppression of Jews, oh learned one?

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Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jan 16 17:13:13 2012, in response to Re: EUEUEUEUEU threatening Israel over ''land grab'' of *Israeli land* . . ., posted by orange blossom special on Mon Jan 16 16:10:06 2012.

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The "Palestinians" didn't exist for hundreds of years. They "came into existence" sometime during the 50s or 60s. Remember Zuheir Mohsen's statements from back in the 70s?

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


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