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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:50:48 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 18 14:36:10 2012.

It's people like JayZee, and other people that don't believe in our country's concept of "Innocent until proven guilty" that caused the prosecution to jump the gun and charge him with murder.
There is definitely a case where manslaughter, or negligent homicide could be won, but the more evidence collected here, the more and more it looks like murder won't hold water.

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(942893)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 19:52:49 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 17:52:20 2012.

CNN listed it this morning. I saw it on TIME's coverage as well. I thought it was common knowledge.

your pal,
Fred

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(942894)

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:52:53 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 18 18:03:35 2012.

Yup. She probably screwed up the entire case too. Due to pressure from people that don't believe in our country's "innocent until proven guilty" concept, and instead believe in "guilty until proven innocent" (except of course where the race of the person is minority, then they are on the other bandwagon), the prosecution jumped the gun, and charged him with Murder, which due to increasing evidence is seeming less and less likely to be able to be won.

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(942895)

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:53:37 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 18:08:41 2012.

Looks like that's all she'll have now, as she really f'ed things up in this case.

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman


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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:56:46 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 19:47:51 2012.

Hash is pot, just made from the most potent parts of the plant.
There was no evidence of "trace" amounts this morning when we were discussing this, and yes, heavy use of pot DOES and can cause paranoia, panic attacks, and anxiety. I HAVE seen this. (Granted, yes, alcohol was also in the picture).
But google Marijuana panic attacks, and you will see plenty of information that verifies what I am saying.

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(942903)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:03:34 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:56:46 2012.

CNN had the amounts in its online coverage early this morning. The toxicology report was released with all the other evidence.

Hash is a lot stronger than pot is and is like comparing drinking whisky to drinking beer. I never was talking about effects of smoking hash nor heavy pot usage either. That's probably our source of disagreement on the effects.

your pal,
Fred



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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:06:21 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 19:50:48 2012.

One word in response to this entire concept: "Obama" ... :)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:06:47 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 19:52:49 2012.

I guess FOX didn't bother.

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(942910)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:10:34 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:06:47 2012.

It didn't matter, and probably still doesn't as the groupthink goes "Martin....Drugs....He had it coming...."

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:12:15 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:10:34 2012.

With THAT group, he had it coming even without the drugs. :(

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri May 18 20:15:18 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:12:15 2012.

iawtp

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:22:41 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:12:15 2012.

We saw with our own eyes what the right did first thing: smear the dead guy.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 20:28:46 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:22:41 2012.

.....and we also saw that the extreme leftists formed a lynch mob.

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:35:21 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:22:41 2012.

And of course the right-eous indignation when caught doing it ever since. Gotta love it I guess ...

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by cortelyounext on Fri May 18 20:35:31 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri May 18 20:15:18 2012.

??

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:37:14 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by cortelyounext on Fri May 18 20:35:31 2012.



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by cortelyounext on Fri May 18 20:39:49 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:37:14 2012.



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:55:01 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by cortelyounext on Fri May 18 20:39:49 2012.

Redrum standing by ...



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by bingbong on Fri May 18 21:05:05 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 18 20:28:46 2012.

Since when is call to justice a lynch mob? Has anyone hung?

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:20:45 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 19:52:49 2012.

Thank you for the link. Interestingly enough, one Dr stated that there is no direct correlation between the amount found in the blood and the level of intoxication. This would call RIPTA's assertion that he was okay enough to drive, into question, though.

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri May 18 22:22:22 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by bingbong on Fri May 18 21:05:05 2012.

Since when is guilty until innocent "justice"? The lynch mob hasnt allowed our country's preumption of innocence. Hes even gotten death threats.

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(942944)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:23:47 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by bingbong on Fri May 18 21:05:05 2012.

You've already made up your mind, To your way of thinking, a trial is just an unnecessary waste of time.

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(942945)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri May 18 22:26:10 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:23:47 2012.

All the activist tyoes already have him convicted. Even if ges proven innocent...they willstill call him guilty and call it a "miscarriage of justice".

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(942948)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:29:14 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 20:03:34 2012.

Right at the end of the CNN report it also cautioned that the level of THC in the blood has no direct correlation with the level of intoxication. Now most on the extreme left would discount such information since it upsets their preconceived notions but the implication is that the level in the urine is more significant and that level was not released. The MTA also uses the urine level when drug-testing.

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(942951)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 22:36:01 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:20:45 2012.

The Dr was cautioning against anyone calling Martin intoxicated as the levels were so low.

your pal,
Fred

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(942952)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 22:39:06 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:29:14 2012.

The level in the urine was also released.

your pal,
Fred

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(942954)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:44:19 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 22:36:01 2012.

Perhaps but that's not how I interpreted his comments since, as I mentioned, Drug/Urine testing is more accurate.

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(942956)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 22:46:57 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:44:19 2012.

Blood testing is more accurate than urine testing.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:56:21 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 22:46:57 2012.

I guess that in this case it would also depend on how quickly after death the test was performed. In blood in a live subject, it can be detected just 3 or 4 hours post dose.. I'll leave the rest to you to interpret.

MARIJUANA (THC) Cannabis sativa
CLASS: Psychoactive cannabinoid
STREET NAMES: "Pot", "Grass", "Sensemilla", "Thai Sticks", "Acapulco Gold", "Reefer"
MAJOR METABOLITES: 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol. (Note: delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol is the major psychoactive ingredient)
SYMPTOMS / EFFECTS:
Desired: Euphoria, Relaxation, Anti-nausea effect, Hallucinations
General: Sedation, sleepiness, ataxia, and short term memory impairment.
Physiological: Red conjunctiva (Whites of the eyes), increased pulse & blood pressure.
LENGTH OF TIME DETECTED:
Blood:
Delta-9-THC concentration usually drops below 5 ng/mL within 3-4 hours post dose. Frequent users may have longer detection times.
Urine:
11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-THC (inactive metabolite) detectable several days to several weeks, even longer for extremely heavy users. THC is a lipid soluble drug, therefore stores in the fat in the body and the amount of time it takes to clear the system is dependent on how much drug was used and over what period of time the drug is used. Delta-9-THC may also be detected.
DURATION OF EFFECTS: Approximately 2-5 hours (route of administration and dose dependant).


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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 23:03:38 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:56:21 2012.

Thanks for proving my point.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 23:07:26 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri May 18 22:26:10 2012.

I believe the "activist" types have the DEAD guy convicted, n'est-ce-pas?

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 23:24:54 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 23:03:38 2012.

I don't know that I did prove your point, Fred. According to what I posted the level in blood falls off far faster than in urine and that's within a living person. The question becomes how soon after death was the autopsy performed and how does THC dissipate in a dead body? Those are questions that I'd want answered.

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 23:30:05 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 23:24:54 2012.

Well the level of substance in the blood is what is the standard for measuring intoxication is it not? So...a lower blood level of TCH or just a trace would indicate...less intoxication.

your pal,
Fred



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 23:57:00 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Fri May 18 23:30:05 2012.

Again, we have to go back to the question of whether it dissipates differently in a dead body that a live person and if so, then how? Such unanswered questions are what reasonable doubt stems from. I want to hear from experts.

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 00:00:44 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 23:57:00 2012.

That's fine. It's safe to say that Martin wasn't all gooned up on pot.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 02:35:18 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Train Dude on Fri May 18 22:20:45 2012.

1.5 ng/mL. Low enough to legally "drive while stoned" in Ohio or Nevada.

From the link I provided:

While some states have zero-tolerance policies for any drug traces for driving while impaired, others set certain benchmarks, the website of California's Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs notes. In Nevada, that equates to 2 ng/ml for THC and 5 ng/ml for THC-COOH, also known as marijuana metabolite. The cutoff level in Ohio is 2 ng/ml for THC and 50 ng/ml for THC-COOH.

RIPTA is correct, he'd be under the limit in those states.

I don't think that the argument that Martin was higher than a kite is going to work here.

your pal,
Fred



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 02:56:37 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 02:35:18 2012.

And we're talking NANO grams here. There is one of those aspirin replacements (I forget whether it's ibuprofin or another one) that will test positive for THC, and there are vegetables which will ALSO produce "trace amount" readings and require a second drug test to confirm that this is the reason for the positive in the first test. Sorta like poppy seeds for heroin. This is the reason WHY that second test is required before you fire someone for it.

When we did government work under our former operation, we had to drug test anything that moved, including the UPS dude. :)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:02:54 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 02:56:37 2012.

We'll probably learn in the next 48 hours that THC makes one ultraviolent and ready to kill at the drop of a hat :)

(We won't actually learn this but we'll hear all about it )

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 03:17:15 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:02:54 2012.

Heh. I remember the "health instruction" class from my gym teacher back in the 60's about marijuana (when it was spelled with an 'h') about how if you puffed that shit, you'd see Satan dancing in your windshield and crack up the car and DIE ... and this to Bronx folks whose car was the 4 train. :)

Scared the shit out of me too. When I worked for the TA, I'd see some guys off in the corner of the yard passing the old arnine brake handles back and forth (yeah, the original arnine handles had a hole through the handle and a neat little hole on the bottom that took a standard faucet strainer thingy) puffing up. Had no idea what they were up to until somebody told me. I reported it. Then my adventures with TWU began in earnest given that I hadn't "earned mine." :(

Wasn't until years later working in broadcasting that I learned that EVERYBODY was doing it, going on air toasted out of their nut and I finally learned that it wasn't anywhere near as bad as I was told.

Learned to not give a shit, and worried about more important things.

Hell ... most of the righties around here could USE a toke. :)

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by G1Ravage on Sat May 19 03:23:30 2012, in response to Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 18 13:03:53 2012.

I read that article in the paper, and I agree completely. I bet it makes a lot of people angry. Maybe they'll sue the Daily News for printing it!

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:30:21 2012, in response to Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 18 13:03:53 2012.

Hasn't Dershowitz been saying this even before this release of evidence?

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 03:44:56 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:30:21 2012.

Shhhhhh! When the right starts depending on Dershowitz for their yayas, you know this one's going to go down even worse than Palin. :)

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:48:51 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 03:44:56 2012.

Almost like Olog wearing a ACLU tee shirt. Almost...

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 03:49:21 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 03:48:51 2012.

Heh. Gotta love Dershowitz ... the Geraldo Rivera of law. :)

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 19 04:07:18 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Fred G on Sat May 19 00:00:44 2012.



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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 19 06:37:38 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 23:07:26 2012.

The tragedy is that yes, he's dead, and he won't have the benefit of his day in court. But that doesn't make Zimmerman automatically guilty. It's a tragedy Martin is dead, but living people still deserve a trial before being convicted of being guilty.

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by G1Ravage on Sat May 19 14:26:29 2012, in response to Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 17 17:14:37 2012.

Interesting...didn't Zimmerman's 911 call mention something about the suspicious person looking like he was on drugs?

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Easy on Sat May 19 14:32:00 2012, in response to Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by G1Ravage on Sat May 19 14:26:29 2012.

Wasn't that because he thought that Trayvon was behaving strangely by talking to himself, evidently not recognizing the hands free cell phone conversation taking place?

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Re: Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds

Posted by Edwards! on Sat May 19 15:27:27 2012, in response to Oh my: Trayvon Martin had drugs in his system, autopsy finds, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu May 17 17:14:37 2012.

LOL! I could ask you the very same question..a "trace amount of weed" is the equivalent of catching a contact high..and You KNOW what thats all about.

Stop going out of your way to paint this boy as the villain..Its just like a bitchass..pointing the finger at the person who cant defend themselves.

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Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman

Posted by Edwards! on Sat May 19 15:47:22 2012, in response to Re: Dershowitz: drop the charges against Zimmerman, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri May 18 20:06:21 2012.

I must be some one out of time..cause this is a foolish notion for sure.

If someone takes another persons life in a horrific fashion..or in any fashion outside of self defense..how is it NOT MURDER..?

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