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| How many lives did this man potentially save? (964066) | |
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| (964066) | |
How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 12:54:14 2012 And imagine if he was in that Aurora movie theater last Friday night:http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx Do we even need to discuss this anymore? There was a time when rational debate over evolution became unnecessary. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:05:29 2012, in response to How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 12:54:14 2012. That's the result of bringing a gun to a knife fight.Had the knife wielding man had a gun the results would have been much different. THIW. There's no arguing that had anyone else started to shoot in the crowded smoke filled dark theater a lot more lives would have been lost, many more injured, and the perp would just as likely have walked away as he did. 
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 13:09:50 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:05:29 2012. Had the knife wielding man had a gun the results would have been much different.The customer who was carrying probably would have shot and killed him. THIW. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:14:44 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:05:29 2012. Again, you totally miss the point. Supporting laws that would disarm the man who ended this rampage is the epitome of stupid.And to answer your question, the lawfully armed citizen simply shoots the "gunman" dead. Either way, the rampage ends quickly. |
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| (964080) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 13:25:43 2012, in response to How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 12:54:14 2012. Yes, but the man who had the gun was not insane and not a convicted felon. It was also an ordinary handgun. Gun control does not mean gun prohibition. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:39:34 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 13:25:43 2012. Gun control, to gun control advocates means prohibition of ownership for personal protection. Just ask them. Of course, they will call it "sensible gun laws", but that's generally what they mean. |
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| (964087) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 13:48:20 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:39:34 2012. Well, I disagree with them, but you probably know that already. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 13:56:15 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:14:44 2012. To put a different spin on it, the citizen with the gun would probably be thanked warmly if it were in New York City, then arrested for carrying. |
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| (964089) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:59:03 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 13:09:50 2012. How do you know? If he had a gun he probably would have shot the armed customer first. Then what good would his gun do? It would only provide an opportunity for the perp to steal it, too. |
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| (964090) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 14:06:05 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:14:44 2012. That wouldn't necessarily -even likely- be the case. Don't confuse an exceptional case with the norm. Most gun owners don't have a clue as to how to use them. Most gun owners think they're Clint f#@&ing Eastwood, which is why they went out to buy one to begin with.If they regulated licensing strictly, required courses and proof of competency upkeep, those carrying guns would be less of a risk to the general public. That is NOT the case. IMO regulation should apply to ALL guns. People have the right to be safe FROM them as well. The NRA and other gun crazed idiots have no concept of this. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:32:56 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 14:06:05 2012. No one should have a pistol without training and qualification on the particular model. |
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| (964100) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 14:48:52 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:32:56 2012. No one should have any gun without screening, education about safe use and competency testing.I have aright to be safe from stupid gun use. I have a right to know that if someone is carrying on the street, they're either cops or maybe military, that I can trust they're not going to shoot up a crowd. |
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| (964119) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Fri Jul 27 15:25:32 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:05:29 2012. There's no way someone could possibly be as stupid as you pretend to be (except maybe Dan Lawrence or streetcarman1). Seriously. Why don't you quit the act? |
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| (964121) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:34:39 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 13:59:03 2012. How do you know he would have shot the customer first? You're guessing, just like I was. |
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| (964129) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:47:23 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 14:48:52 2012. I have a right to be safe from bleeding heart liberals that want to restrict or prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights. Except for Alaska, Arizona and Vermont, what states doesn't require screening and successfully completing an approved course in firearm safety and demonstrate competence (qualify) with a handgun before granting a carry permit? |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:47:57 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by TERRapin station on Fri Jul 27 15:25:32 2012. Good luck with that. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 15:52:37 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:34:39 2012. Based on the information from the OP's article, this guy went to the store with the intention of hurting people. He didn't go to the register and hold the knife up demanding the contents of the register drawer. He just started stabbing people. That he would have just shot up the place had he a gun is readily inferred. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 15:58:02 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:47:23 2012. Some of them just require the completion of an application. The NYT had an series of articles on it a year or so ago. IIRC, it was Utah and Missouri among a few others. It came up when they first (and thankfully haven't succeeded at) proposed a national free for all gun law. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jul 27 16:14:17 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:39:34 2012. Huh?I favor stronger gun control. What I mean is: - No weapons that can fire dozens of rounds in as many seconds. - No armor-piercing ammunition. - Background checks for every sales situation. - A local jurisdiction is allowed to restrict concealable guns but not ban guns altogether. For example, it could ban handgun permits but could not ban rifle or shotgun permits. The best weapon for self-defense in your home is a shotgun, not a pistol. But it's a lousy weapon for killing lots of people or for use in a crime. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Fri Jul 27 17:17:29 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 13:39:34 2012. Wrong! I support strict gun control but not a prohibition. You should do some more researching before pulling statements out of your ass and presenting them as fact.You mad bro? |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 17:32:45 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 15:58:02 2012. Missouri requires evidence of completion of firearms training that meets statutory standards.To get a permit in Utah requires "evidence of general familiarity with the types of firearms to be concealed which may include completion of a course of instruction conducted by any national, state or local firearms training organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, certification of general or equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in an organized shooting competition, law enforcement, hunter safety, military or civilian firearms instructor, or military service." Try again, bingbong. You're pulling "facts" out of your ass again. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:53:17 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:32:56 2012. Do you need training to exercise your First Amendment rights?Why single out the Second Amendment? |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:55:00 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 15:47:23 2012. I have a right to be safe from bleeding heart liberals that want to restrict or prohibit law-abiding citizens from exercising their Second Amendment rights.Real liberals support an individual's right to keep and bear arms. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:57:00 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by AlM on Fri Jul 27 16:14:17 2012. What you favor would usher in a Tyranny of the Criminals. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:59:37 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by ClearAspect on Fri Jul 27 17:17:29 2012. Put down the Cat Stevens records.The Second Amendment is the right that protects all other rights. |
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| (964212) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Fri Jul 27 18:02:48 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:59:37 2012. Incorrect... |
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| (964222) | |
Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 18:22:40 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by AlM on Fri Jul 27 16:14:17 2012. Everything you say is plain old common sense. I think that training and licensing of all gun owners is needed as well. It's a good way to get the screening issues out of the way, as well time to do (during the course period) a thorough background check.For one, police should know if there are firearms at any location they are called to. Secondly, those of us that aren't guncrazed have the right to be free from gun violence, which includes the antics of incompetent amateurs, so there should be a reasonable expectation that anyone around them is minimally competent to use a gun and not a threat. Handguns should be most strictly regulated, with a stringent highly supervised licensing program, yearly exams and use certification, same as the military and police do. Assault weapons and large (over 10 bullet) magazines should be banned. No civilian needs to own large weapons, missile launchers, tanks (they still use them???), bazookas, etc. We have a military to do that. Join them if you really need to muck with that stuff. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 27 18:35:46 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by AlM on Fri Jul 27 16:14:17 2012. Are is Switzerland so heavily armed without so much gun violence? |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 18:46:32 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dave on Fri Jul 27 17:32:45 2012. Try reading the NYT article I referenced. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 19:08:27 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 18:46:32 2012. James Holmes couldn't legally own a gun because of a law that's ben in force since 1968. That law didn't stop him. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 19:13:31 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by AlM on Fri Jul 27 16:14:17 2012. Anyone who trusts law enforcement as much as you do belongs in North Korea. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jul 27 19:17:20 2012, in response to How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jul 27 12:54:14 2012. The Democrats decided that Salt Lake City was "too white" years ago and shipped over a lot of war criminals from Bosnia. They've been having issues with crime and jihad since. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jul 27 19:17:44 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by TERRapin station on Fri Jul 27 15:25:32 2012. Then again, it just might not be an act. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Jul 27 20:01:01 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:32:56 2012. Your fellow conservtives disagree. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Jul 27 20:02:06 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:53:17 2012. Other rights don't involve deadly weapons. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 20:06:17 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 19:08:27 2012. Then there's Texas, where it's easier to get a gun permit than it is to get a driver's license. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 20:12:53 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 20:06:17 2012. It should be that way EVERYWHERE. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Jul 27 20:21:06 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SLRT on Fri Jul 27 14:32:56 2012. That's practical advice but shouldn't preclude gun ownership, per the 2nd Amendment.your pal, Fred |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:23:58 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:57:00 2012. Fully-auto weapons are useless. Any weapons expert and any physicist will tell you that. The only reason for full-auto weapons is for suppressive fire. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 20:24:31 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 20:12:53 2012. I disagree. I've known too many armed morons that have no business driving pasta gun shop, much less owning a gun. There's this guy 2 doors down from us that shot his own kid because they ran in the house chasing the dog (who was also shot). A former upstairs neighbor out on the lawn, without his glasses on, shooting anything that moved, trying to kill a squirrel that had nested in a decaying frieze under the gambrel.There is a critical need to ensure those with guns are competent to use them. Period. Requiring this doesn't infringe on anyone's rights. It protects the rights of those that want nothing of them. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:25:57 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:59:37 2012. Excellent post. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jul 27 20:26:49 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:23:58 2012. Wellll ... they are handy for one thing. If you ever need to draw a vertical line with bullets, they're perfect. :) |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:27:40 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:53:17 2012. Except that you are trained to exercise your first amendment rights. It's called school. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Jul 27 20:40:44 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by SMAZ on Fri Jul 27 17:55:00 2012. OK, here's an idea: Everybody can have a gun. Ammunition is $100,000 a box, no discount is allowed. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:44:57 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 20:12:53 2012. Only because it's way too easy to get a driver's license. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Jul 27 20:45:06 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jul 27 19:17:20 2012. You want to prove that? I call your bluff. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 20:55:42 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Jul 27 20:40:44 2012. That's an idea that would work. Bring back the musket! That would serve to eliminate those who have no business owning a gun, and quickly. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Jul 27 20:58:26 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by bingbong on Fri Jul 27 20:55:42 2012. YUP. You can have ALL the guns you want, but ammunition is out of reach unless you are Mitt Romney or fantastically rich. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 21:00:33 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jul 27 20:23:58 2012. That's why the M16A2 and M4 rifles fire semi-auto or 3-round bursts ONLY. |
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Re: How many lives did this man potentially save? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Jul 27 21:01:53 2012, in response to Re: How many lives did this man potentially save?, posted by ClearAspect on Fri Jul 27 18:02:48 2012. Do liberalism a favor. Eat poison |
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