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| Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. (961839) | |
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Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P.? |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 11:44:54 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. Tomorrow? No way that the NCAA will impose the death penalty without conducting their own investigation or at least wait until the existing criminal one is fully completed. Even then the "death penalty" is highly unlikely imo. I don't see how any of this is the NCAA's business as it has nothing to do with athletic performance or eligibility. |
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| (961842) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P.? |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Jul 22 11:55:16 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P.?, posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 11:44:54 2012. I don't think the whole team should suffer. Sandusky will be making license plates for a very long time, and Paterno is dead. |
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| (961844) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P.? |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 12:03:55 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P.?, posted by Dan on Sun Jul 22 11:55:16 2012. Well there's actually more staff involved than that and that's not really how it works. Whenever the NCAA sanctions a team, they are almost always sanctioning athletes that weren't involved, although they are allowed to transfer. They do it as an example for other teams. But then, that's regarding athletes and eligibility. To my knowledge, it's not their responsibility to punish teams for criminal behavior within the athletic department unrelated to athletics. This would be a first afaik. |
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| (961845) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Jul 22 12:12:32 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. I would expect something like a 1-year or 2-year suspension.How do you ever punish a corporation? The shareholders (if it has any) and employees are never exactly the same as at the time the infraction was committed. |
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| (961847) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 12:24:13 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. Sorry, I neglected to include the links...Link to LA Times Link to CBS Sports Link to ESPN |
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| (961851) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Jul 22 12:30:16 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. No, the collateral roadkill shouldn't suffer.Anyone, football is so important to colleges and especially Penn State any suspension won't be permanent. |
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| (961852) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 22 12:34:47 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. Sandusky's in jail, Paterno is dead and discredited. Let's call it a day.your pal, Fred |
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| (961859) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 12:54:35 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. The NCAA is a private organization and can do as it wishes. They've suspended teams before and I wouldn't be surprised if they do it again. The point is to punish the administrators so they remain watchful over their staff in the future.Students can transfer out, and I'm sure if other schools seek a particularly talented athlete they'll woo them to transfer with scholarships and any legal perks they can provide. |
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| (961867) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program Suspended |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Sun Jul 22 13:05:16 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. "NCAA will levy "significant, unprecedented penalties" that are "well beyond what has been done in the past," a source familiar with the case tells CNN. The NCAA will not impose the so-called "death penalty," the source said.The NCAA, which oversees college sports, is expected to announce "corrective and punitive measures" against Penn State at 9 a.m. ET Monday, according to a news release. " --- CNN Breaking News alert |
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| (961868) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:06:59 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by AlM on Sun Jul 22 12:12:32 2012. Suspension of what? Football? That's what the death penalty is. SMU had football suspended for 2 years and never recovered. They went from a perennially decent to good program to terrible. |
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| (961869) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program Suspended? |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:07:57 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program Suspended, posted by RockParkMan on Sun Jul 22 13:05:16 2012. Football being suspended is the death penalty! |
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| (961871) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:10:31 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 12:54:35 2012. The NCAA is a private organization and can do as it wishes.Unless I'm mistaken, the NCAA is an association of private and public institutions. Penn State, for example, is one of the public institutions comprising the NCAA. |
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| (961875) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:24:00 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:06:59 2012. Aren't colleges and universities supposed to be about education? |
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| (961876) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:24:14 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. No.I'm going to be honest here and say that I never like it when the NCAA imposes sanctions. In most cases, the sanctions punish fans, players, and coaches who have NOTHING to do with the problems within the program. Plus, the 12 teams that would've played Penn State this season will also lose revenue as they will have one less game in their schedule (unless they can scramble to find new opponents on incredibly short notice). |
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| (961877) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:26:01 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 22 12:34:47 2012. I'd like to agree. Many other University administrators are calling for the "death penalty" in this case though. I think it's going to happen. |
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| (961879) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program Suspended? |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:28:08 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program Suspended?, posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:07:57 2012. The economic, player repercussions, and scheduling consequences of doing it a month before the season starts, I believe, is the only thing precluding them from imposing the death penalty now. There literally is not enough time for players to transfer and the schedule to be re-done before the season starts. |
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| (961880) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:29:29 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:10:31 2012. You're talking about its membership. The organization itself is a private entity, a corporation. |
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| (961881) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:31:11 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:29:29 2012. I always thought that the NCAA should punish the individuals that were involved as opposed to the programs as a whole. When there was the whole Reggie Bush issue with USC, Bush was in the NFL and Pete Carroll bolted and went to the NFL, but the school was punished for actions that weren't related to anyone on the team (I believe the AD also changed). |
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| (961882) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:32:41 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:24:00 2012. Yes. |
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| (961885) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:35:28 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:29:29 2012. No, it's a non-profit association. |
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| (961886) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 22 13:37:58 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 12:54:35 2012. I'm pretty sure the administrators got the message loud and clear and Penn State will be the cleanest operation in existence from this day forward. It's kind of like those meatpackers who cause a health epidemic. They come back safer than anyone.The other point about this is who is really going to be punished here? The football program isn't just football but a small local economy that the football supports. They'll be punished along with the college administrators and don't deserve to be. your pal, Fred |
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| (961888) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:45:13 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:31:11 2012. To be sincere I don't follow those kinds of things. I don't recall what you're talking about. Penn State, being so prominently in the news is harder to ignore.I am aware that the NCAA has suspended teams before. That's what they'll probably do here. I does get the attention of the administrators that should have stopped this long ago. This went on for YEARS. This incident is strictly related to the program administrators either tolerating or ignoring a heinous criminal in their midst, to the point of covering it up. That's a lot more serious and requires sanction at the administrative level of the institution. As to the students, I'd figure the best of them have already gotten away. This has been ongoing for several months now, so any athletes with professional ambitions have likely already left, just on the rumors of this, much less the reality. It's been going on for over a semester now. The chance to get untangled from that program has already occurred. |
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| (961889) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:47:08 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 13:31:11 2012. And USC was waaay over-punished compared to the teams that came after them like Ohio State where the coaches were found to have been involved in a cover-up and lying to the investigators.Also, it'll be interesting to see what happens to UNC. If they get a punishment commensurate to USC, it would probably be the death penalty. But obviously they can't do that because then what do they do to Miami? That would be one of the the biggest scandals in history were it not for Penn State happening at the same time. |
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| (961891) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:50:42 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 13:45:13 2012. The last time that the NCAA gave a team the "death penalty" was SMU in the 80's. Reportedly it ended up being a much harsher penalty than they thought that it would and they decided internally to never do it again.As to the students, I'd figure the best of them have already gotten away. This has been ongoing for several months now, so any athletes with professional ambitions have likely already left, just on the rumors of this, much less the reality. It's been going on for over a semester now. The chance to get untangled from that program has already occurred. No offense, but this is all wrong. The NCAA has rules regarding athlete transfers. They can't just leave and go to a new school without being penalized. The NCAA would have to (and likely will) waive the penalties. |
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| (961892) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 14:02:39 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:50:42 2012. Even if they waive the penalties, by this time (with 5 weeks until kickoff), most teams already have their rosters set. It's not like a lot of teams will have space available for the affected Penn State players. |
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| (961893) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 14:03:35 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:47:08 2012. Which is why the NCAA's version of "justice" is a flawed system. |
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| (961894) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:03:53 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 14:02:39 2012. True. The players would all miss a season. If they do give them the death penalty - and I hope that they don't - then hopefully it would start next season. |
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| (961895) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:07:04 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:32:41 2012. So given the number of scandals and criminals involved, isn't it time you think to defund these over-financed programs and focus on education instead? It's well known that athletic scholarships don't produce scholars. Sports in colleges used to be about students' leisure time activities. Let's get a little focus here. Suspending a sports program doesn't ruin a school. These schools all need to focus on education and lesson sports profit. |
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| (961896) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 14:09:15 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:07:04 2012. Actually, I would argue that it does. The athletic programs provide a lot of advertising to the school (in the area of regional or national exposure). In addition, the football (or in some cases basketball) programs pay for all of the other sports offerings at the school. |
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| (961901) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:23:13 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:07:04 2012. I agree that major sports are overly emphasized, especially at a few big-name schools. As for "defunded", that's a little harder. Football usually pays for itself and for much of the other athletic programs, which aside from a handful of basketball programs, all lose money. And the extra stuff usually comes from private donations. Boosters give programs millions of dollars. Maybe the NCAA could limit that, but I'm not sure if they should. |
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| (961902) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:26:14 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by TonyG on Sun Jul 22 14:09:15 2012. Agreed. Even though I'm a big fan of college football, what really needs to be done is for the NFL to start its own developmental league that pays top athletes and provides another avenue for football players to the NFL. Let's face it, most of the top college football players are students in name only. |
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| (961904) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:46:16 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:26:14 2012. That makes a lot more sense. Colleges and universities are being corrupted by all that money going into sports programs. That's why Sandusky and his enablers looked askance for so long while this animal continued his crime spree. The football generated revenue. So long as it did, the administrators were happy. That's all that mattered. |
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| (961905) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:47:19 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 13:35:28 2012. Non profit associations are also corporations. They just have a different charter. |
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| (961906) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:48:48 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Fred G on Sun Jul 22 13:37:58 2012. They all enabled that animal. Plenty of people knew, nobody stopped it. THIW. |
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| (961908) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:51:22 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:46:16 2012. Actually Jerry Sandusky was no longer generating revenue for Penn State because he hadn't been a paid coach for over a decade. He resigned (reportedly forced because of sexual allegations) in 1999. |
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| (961909) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:52:50 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 14:47:19 2012. lol |
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| (961916) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:15:13 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:51:22 2012. So why was he there? |
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| (961917) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 15:19:02 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:15:13 2012. His motivation? Probably because he could use promises of trips to Penn State to seduce young boys. As for Penn State's motivation, I'm not sure. Maybe him having an office was a condition that he negotiated before resigning. |
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| (961922) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:21:50 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 15:19:02 2012. Which amounts to what I said the school was doing. Facilitating this. Permitting it. For that, they are liable, be it to lawsuit or sanction by the NCAA. |
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| (961925) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 22 15:27:56 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. No..The folks who had nothing to do with cover ups shouldn't be punished. ITS A DAMN SHAME..For years.this preyed on these young men AND children.. hope his stay in prison is "exciting and eventful" as he made the lives of those young people over the years. Hope he remembers to keep plenty of lubricant handy..hes gonna need it. |
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| (961927) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 15:33:19 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:21:50 2012. Oh, you mean that they wanted to cover it up to keep the money train rolling? I can't disagree with that. |
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| (961930) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:38:41 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 15:33:19 2012. THIW. Now they should pay the consequences. |
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| (961937) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Jul 22 15:52:19 2012, in response to Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 11:37:28 2012. yeah good point |
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| (961938) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jul 22 15:52:41 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Edwards! on Sun Jul 22 15:27:56 2012. You are 100% correct! |
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| (961939) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Jul 22 15:54:35 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Easy on Sun Jul 22 14:52:50 2012. Incorporation is all about liability. The NCAA is about shared liability. Penn State's allowing this is going to cost them bigtime. Expect BIG sanctions. |
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| (961942) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 16:03:13 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Jul 22 15:52:19 2012. Good point? I didn't make one. I only posed the question. |
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| (961943) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 16:04:06 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jul 22 15:52:41 2012. So you support jail-house justice? Do you also support curb-side justice? |
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| (961944) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Jul 22 16:15:47 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 16:03:13 2012. ok |
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| (961945) | |
Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P. |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Sun Jul 22 16:17:35 2012, in response to Re: Penn State Football Program - R.I.P., posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 22 16:04:06 2012. a lot of people want sandusky to be raped in prisonto teach him a lesson |
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