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Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012

fiogf49gjkf0d
Threatening to wreck the country and all for what?

Washington Post

Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes

By Lori Montgomery
Published: July 15, 2012
Democrats are making increasingly explicit threats about their willingness to let nearly $600 billion worth of tax hikes and spending cuts take effect in January unless Republicans drop their opposition to higher taxes for the nation’s wealthiest households.

Emboldened by signs that GOP resistance to new taxes may be weakening, senior Democrats say they are prepared to weather a fiscal event that could plunge the nation back into recession if the new year arrives without an acceptable compromise.

In a speech Monday, Sen. Patty Murray (Wash.), the Senate’s No. 4 Democrat and the leader of the caucus’s campaign arm, plans to make the clearest case yet for going over what some have called the “fiscal cliff.”

“If we can’t get a good deal, a balanced deal that calls on the wealthy to pay their fair share, then I will absolutely continue this debate into 2013,” Murray plans to say, according to excerpts of the speech provided to The Washington Post.

If the tax cuts from the George W. Bush era expire and taxes go up for everyone, the debate will be reset, Murray is expected to say. “Every proposal will be a tax-cut proposal,” according to the excerpts, and Republicans would no longer be “boxed in” by their pledge not to raise taxes.

“If middle-class families start seeing more money coming out of their paychecks next year, are Republicans really going to stand up and fight for new tax cuts for the rich? Are they going to continue opposing the Democrats’ middle-class tax cut once the slate has been wiped clean? I think they know this would be an untenable political position.”

Murray’s address, set to be delivered at the Brookings Institution, is meant to influence both the Nov. 6 election and the lame-duck legislative session in November and December, when the fiscal cliff will be at hand and the fight over taxes will be in full throttle. Regardless of the election’s outcome, President Obama and the current Congress will be in office for the session.

The speech comes less than a week after Obama assured Hill Democrats during a White House meeting that he would veto any attempt to maintain the Bush tax cuts on income over $250,000 a year, according to several people present. It also echoes the dismissive response by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to Republicans seeking to undo scheduled reductions in Pentagon spending that even Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta has said would be “devastating” to national security.

During the White House meeting, Obama never directly addressed whether he is prepared to let the new year arrive without taking action to avoid the cliff. According to the excerpts, Murray will say Monday that she hopes an agreement can be reached before then: “Democrats are willing to compromise. We just need a partner.”

Still, Democratic lawmakers emerged from the meeting invigorated for the year-end battle to preserve the Bush tax cuts solely for the middle class.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has lambasted the Democrats’ position as an “outrageous ultimatum.”

“At a moment when the American people are reeling from the slowest recovery in modern times . . . and just five months away from the economic body blow that will result if tax rates spike, as scheduled, on January 1st, the president’s solution is to take more money away from the very business folks we are counting on to create the jobs that we need,” McConnell said in a speech Thursday on the Senate floor. “Naturally, Republicans oppose this. The way we see it, nobody should see an income tax hike right now.”

A risky strategy

The term “fiscal cliff” refers to the sharp drop in the 2013 budget deficit that would result from policies in current law. Thanks to a deal Obama cut with Republicans in 2010, the Bush tax cuts — and dozens of other tax provisions — are set to expire in December, raising taxes for virtually every U.S. household next year.

Meanwhile, during the debt-limit showdown last summer, lawmakers approved a plan to implement $110 billion in automatic spending cuts next year. A legislative “supercommittee” appointed to find an alternative deficit-reduction strategy disbanded without reaching agreement.

Republicans say Democrats are responsible for the impasse, noting that GOP members on the supercommittee offered to raise revenue through an overhaul of the tax code.

“We were on the record saying we would agree to a conventionally scored tax increase if they would clear out the tax code, make it fairer, flatter and simpler and begin to take us off the road to bankruptcy on entitlements. And they weren’t willing to do it,” said Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Tex.), the GOP supercommittee chairman.

Murray, who served as the panel’s Democratic chair, argues that her party was willing to tackle entitlement costs. But the GOP’s tax offer was a “bait and switch,” she is expected to say Monday, that would have slashed rates for the rich while generating too little cash to reduce the deficit.

With less than four months until the election, threatening to go over the cliff is a dicey political strategy. Democrats acknowledge that there is a fine line between appearing to stand firm and appearing to take unnecessary risks with the economy. Privately, some Republicans compared it to the debt-limit fight, when congressional approval ratings plummeted after conservatives risked an economy-shattering default to force cuts in government spending.

Democrats say this case is different. Unlike default, the effects of going over the cliff would be neither immediate nor permanent, aides said. An analysis by Chad Stone, an economist at the left-leaning Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, casts the cliff as more of a “slope,” with “only a fraction of the impact occur[ring] in the first month or so.”

“This is not a Wile E. Coyote moment where you have the economy plummeting on Jan. 2,” Stone wrote. “You have some time to implement policy to address the weak economy in the short term and the deficit in the long term.”

In a recent report titled “There Are Worse Fates than Walking off the Fiscal Cliff,” analysts with the Carlyle Group argued that the cliff “would be a near-term disaster” but that simply extending current tax and spending policies would fail “to address increasing indebtedness” and “could actually represent the worst long-run outcome.”

Some Republicans rethink

Given the stakes, some Republicans are rethinking their opposition to higher taxes. In recent days, Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) and other GOP defense hawks have been talking with Democrats about raising cash by “closing loopholes” to replace scheduled military cuts.

“If you said ‘John McCain, are you for increasing taxes?’ the answer is still no,” McCain said, pointing to federal subsidies for ethanol as an example of a loophole that could be closed without “raising taxes.” He added, “We get into such semantics.”

Democrats have shown little interest in a deal, however, preferring to keep the spending cuts in place as an additional point of leverage for the post-election fight.

That’s good strategy, said Erskine Bowles, the Democratic chairman of Obama’s deficit-reduction commission, who is still trying to build support for a framework to raise taxes, overhaul entitlement programs and rein in the national debt.

“You got two guns: One is the tax cuts, and the other” is the spending cuts, Bowles said in an interview. “Until I can get a framework agreed to, I wouldn’t holster those guns,” he added.

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(959455)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:32:20 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
And who *built* that cliff?

Nah ... musta been Satan ...

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(959456)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:33:49 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The Dems want the "Bush Tax Cuts" to expire for everyone. And why not? It won't cost them a single vote.

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(959457)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:38:46 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:33:49 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No, just the wealthy ... those who aren't circulating currency and offshoring the rest. We've had three fiscal years of the GOP plan. How's that working out?

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:42:17 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:38:46 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
if you have a 401k, you're probably offshoring. most of the plans include investments abroad.

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(959461)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 16 05:46:09 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That's the deal they cut.

your pal,
Fred

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(959462)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:47:26 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:42:17 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Nope ... stocks, bonds and real estate. 401k's are for tards ... didn't Bush's legacy teach anyone anything about 101k's? And yeah, I can understand the offshoring for that. Some folks actually expect to get their money back.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:57:34 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:47:26 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
401k is kind of stupid for civil servants. For example, there are some NYCT workers who invest in a 401k. Most of them just like to sound smart in the crew room talking the talk. Makes no sense to invest in that when you get a pension.

I know people in private sector who got in during the 80's when companies were matching.

Real estate is a better investment, but you need to cash on hand to enter the market and make a down payment on property.

I don't do stocks and bonds because I don't understand that stuff and it's stupid to invest in that which you don't understand.

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(959465)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 16 06:12:57 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 05:57:34 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
How do you feel about short-term equine investments?

your pal,
Fred

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(959466)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jul 16 06:18:03 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 16 06:12:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I won't even play Powerball anymore. And it's up to $100,000,000 this week.

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(959469)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by clearaspect on Mon Jul 16 07:43:43 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:47:26 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Half true! If you stayed in your 401K and played aggressively you actually made all your money back and then some since stocks have fully recovered from its 2008 meltdown.

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(959471)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 08:25:59 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Every economist alive has said that there MUST be something done about revenue. Period. Taxes have to go up. In this economic circumstance, there is little sense to take it from the middle class, so a one year extension of the existing tax cut makes some sense.

Taxes on high incomes should go up.......those so-called"job creators" (actually the idle rich) are NOT creating any jobs, nor apparently will they. So they should pay.

Set up a business as an LLC? Too bad, you took bad advice, reconfigure your corporation. You'll pay less in taxes once you do.

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(959476)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 09:00:27 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 16 06:12:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Lot of horseshitters in that market. Best left to those who are looking to write off a loss to offset foreign investment ROI they bring back into the country, to pay for stuff like their elevator repairmen.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 09:10:52 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 09:00:27 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Re: Willard's Offshore Assets Remain Hidden (959472)

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(959501)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 13:04:13 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 09:10:52 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, they DO remain hidden. Funny that, eh?

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(959506)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 13:23:27 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 13:04:13 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
You won't answer the simple questions I posed here: Re: Willard's Offshore Assets Remain Hidden (956177)

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(959508)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 13:31:43 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 13:23:27 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No.

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(959514)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 14:06:15 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 13:31:43 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I know. Considering that I'm only asking questions about statements you've made, it is quite telling that you won't answer. Both you and Selkook are like this. If you get backed into a corner where it is pretty obvious that you are wrong, instead of admitting it and apologizing, you will either change the subject, make a stupid joke, claim it's not important or that you don't need to know the answer, or just completely ignore it.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 16 14:18:23 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They said the same thing about the Clinton Era tax hike... and then we had prosperity and a decrease in debt...

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 14:28:37 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jul 16 14:06:15 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No, it's pests like you that cause this. You're just another RW troll, this place is full of them.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 16 14:18:23 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The Clinton prosperity era was exceptional, in that it was driven by the internet boom of the '90s, when technology stocks went through the roof and people were becoming millionaires overnight. Everyone and his brother were joining internet startups in the hopes of joining in the prosperity. This outstripped the negative impact of the tax hikes on the economy. Everyone thought that riches were around the corner. That was a unique time in America and will not come our way again anytime soon.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Mon Jul 16 14:46:50 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The deficit was cut tho, and look what came roaring back in the 2000's after taxes were cut.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jul 16 15:18:53 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Even the obamite scumbags admit that letting the Bush Tax Cuts on those earning over $250,000 will do virtually nothing for the deficit. This is more form than substance so the obamite scumbags can promote their class warfare.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 15:21:50 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
How then, was there such a broad-based economic expansion? The 80s tech boom affected nearly no one. (in fact, almost all of the 80s tech companies were gone by the 90s) It wasn't just tech. There were fundamental differences in tax structures which rewarded domestic investment and punishing rates on others. That not only created investment that produced domestic jobs but also created revenue.So we saw a Social Security surplus that would have funded the babyboomers retirement's (as we had already funded our parents') as well as provide an opportunity to pay down general fund debt had it not been squandered.

Despite higher tax rates, everyone did better.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 16 15:43:30 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 05:32:20 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Isn't that the name you get when you rearrange the letters in Santa Claus' first name? :-)

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(959544)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Jul 16 15:45:57 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 16 15:43:30 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah and when you re-arrange the letters in "Claus" you can make "Lucas". Hey, this is fun. I don't know what your point is but we certainly can play this game now.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 16 15:49:32 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Incorrect! You neglect to react that since the deficit was decreasing the interest rate was kept low naturally thanks to that strength in the confidence of the US, rather than artificially as it is now and since the Bush Era. What rocked the stocks was not primarily the internet bubble busting but the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent investigations and lies i.e. Enron, Tyco, etc. It also lost about 1/3 of its value, similar to what happened in the late 80s with that crash. However when you raise taxes, and force cuts, you start decreasing the deficit the interest rate will lower and stocks will stay strong as investors are confident in the governments ability to handle its money. Technically a government is never supposed to run in the black, its supposed to have a 0 balance at the end of the day, neither a surplus nor a deficit but thats perfect world. What is interesting though if you look at the way the Dow Jones has performed since 2000 it strikes an eerie similarity to how the Dow Jones performed during the Reagan - Bush I era. If the Dow Jones repeats history then the down will have a small crash to the area of around 10000 later during this year or the beginning of 2013 then rebound rather quickly. Whether the dow will regain that 14000 realm it had before the crash remains to be seen. What should be noted however is that since the crash of 2007/8 the dow jones has had a near 100% recovery. If you look at the 1987 crash it took really until 1992 to get back to normal in the stocks.

So while taxes and cuts may seem bad at first and may be hard to absorb initially, it shows that governments are serious about tackling issues and that makes investors turn into bulls as it builds confidence. Investors don't like squabbled governments, we learned that from Europe and as Congress and the president grabbled over the debt. Raising taxes and cuts are the only solution to getting out of debt as either raising taxes alone or cuts alone doesn't solve the problem. The US needs to cut its debt in half in 15 years or less if it does not, then this country is in trouble.

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Re: RepuKKKllcans ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 16 16:39:10 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Just cut out the european sector of the US military mission and BOOST taxes already. the UK's problems are the USs opportunities, LUNATIC.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Jul 16 16:45:46 2012, in response to Re: RepuKKKllcans ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 16 16:39:10 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Just can't be truly satisfied, can you?

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 17:17:34 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 16 15:43:30 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Why ... that's correct! :)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jul 16 17:18:22 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by clearaspect on Mon Jul 16 07:43:43 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Didn't work out so well with Lehman and Bear Stearns ...

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(959623)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 16 18:16:03 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Train Dude on Mon Jul 16 15:45:57 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah and when you re-arrange the letters in "Claus" you can make "Lucas".

Why, that's true too! The implications are staggering...

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 16 18:31:29 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Jul 16 16:45:46 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Another useless eater.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by TERRapin station on Mon Jul 16 18:59:20 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by bingbong on Mon Jul 16 14:28:37 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Huh? What in the world are you talking about? And how come you can't respond to what I write? What are you afraid of? Obviously it's not "being wrong"...

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Jul 16 19:00:26 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by RockParkMan on Mon Jul 16 18:31:29 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
???

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 16 20:13:25 2012, in response to Dems ready to push USA off "fiscal cliff" over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 16 05:29:59 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Good.

Along with the scheduled budget cuts, it would balance the budget in just a few years.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 16 20:16:27 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The Clinton prosperity era was exceptional, in that it was driven by the internet boom of the '90s, when technology stocks went through the roof and people were becoming millionaires overnight. Everyone and his brother were joining internet startups in the hopes of joining in the prosperity.

What?

You mean Clinton massively hiked taxes on the rich and the "job creators" responded by investing in American start-up companies?

nahhh....can't be.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 17 00:00:48 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Mitch45 on Mon Jul 16 14:43:21 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No it didn't outstrip anything. The bubbles popped, and in Clinton's last year too, the biggest one being the dot-com bubble.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 00:23:45 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jul 17 00:00:48 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
So then what you're saying is that all your babbling over DeutscheBank and the others taking over the EU was nothing and the real problem is that Bubba didn't give pets.com a bailout?

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jul 17 03:13:45 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by ClearAspect on Mon Jul 16 14:18:23 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Clinton lowered taxes on cap gains and estates.

When he lowered cap gains, the economy improved. Not to be outdone, Bush lowered cap gains some more and it worked again. I think Bush lowered cap gains too much, but I don't own stocks. Those that do would tell me to STFU.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 17 03:50:20 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 00:23:45 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d


your pal,
Fred

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(959745)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 17 03:58:55 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 00:23:45 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d


your pal,
Fred

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 04:12:35 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 17 03:58:55 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
And ya wonder why I find conservatards amusing. :)

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 17 04:24:53 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 04:12:35 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Almost as funny as Slappy White!

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by TERRapin station on Tue Jul 17 08:41:43 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by TERRapin station on Mon Jul 16 18:59:20 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Bump.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 17 08:59:16 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jul 17 03:13:45 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Clinton lowered SOME cap gains. He raised others. That's why the republicans whined the whole time about cap gains taxes. Those that invested domestically did very well. However, the offshoring monster was initiated by Bush, and many companies wanted to continue to dump American employees in the name of profit. When bush came along he undid what worked and the tsunami of offshoring (outsourcing is actually defined as utilizing a private source replacing an in-house service, such as hiring a janitorial service of sending Halliburton to Iraq to rob servicemen for their Halliburger dinners) created a lost-decade, with limited growth overall and declines in income and net worth (later amplified in the economic collapse). He then created he housing bubble (in concert with some very willing bankers, mainstreaming mortgage bundling, a practice that was until then highly limited) to cover up what he had done earlier in the decade and guess what happened.

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Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 17 15:14:16 2012, in response to Re: Dems ready to push USA off ''fiscal cliff'' over tax increases, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 17 04:24:53 2012.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I was thinking more along the lines of Rip Taylor. :)

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