Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban

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Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:03:02 2012 fiogf49gjkf0d Reuters Kansas lawmakers pass effective ban on Islamic law By Kevin Murphy Sat May 12, 2012 6:17pm EDT KANSAS CITY, Kansas (Reuters) — Kansas lawmakers have passed legislation intended to prevent the state courts or agencies from using Islamic or other non-U.S. laws in making decisions, a measure critics have blasted as an embarrassment to the state. The legislation, which passed 33-3 in the state Senate on Friday and 120-0 previously in the House, is widely known in Kansas as the "Sharia bill," because the perceived goal of supporters is to keep Islamic code from being recognized in Kansas. The bill was sent to Republican Governor Sam Brownback, who has not indicated whether he will sign it. In interviews on Saturday, a supporter of the bill said it reassured foreigners in Kansas that state laws and the U.S. Constitution will protect them. But an opponent said the bill's real purpose is to hold Islam out for ridicule. Kansas Representative Peggy Mast, a lead sponsor of the bill for the past two years, said the goal was to make sure there was no confusion that American laws prevailed on American soil. Mast said research showed more than 50 cases around the United States where courts or government agencies took laws from Sharia or other legal systems into account in decision-making. Commonly, they involved divorce, child custody, property division or other cases where the woman was treated unfairly, Mast said. "I want people of other cultures, when they come to the United States, to know the freedoms they have in regard to women's and children's rights," said Mast, a Republican. "An important part of this bill would be to educate them." State Senator Tim Owens, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said there was no need for legislation reaffirming American laws that already exist. All the proposed legislation does, he said, was target one particular group — Muslims — for discrimination. "Utter Nonsense" "It's based on fear, it's based on intolerance and it is not based on understanding of the Constitution," said Owens, a Republican, who said the measure is an embarrassment to Kansas. "People will ask, 'How narrow has that state become?'" Owens said. "How unwelcoming is this state?" He said non-U.S. companies may be unwilling to do business in a state whose residents object to "anything different than what they think is appropriate." Roughly 20 states have considered legislation similar to what has passed in Kansas, said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington. Some state legislatures, including Kansas, have passed laws that do not mention Sharia by name, he said. Hooper said there was a movement by conservative-leaning state legislatures to introduce anti-Islam bills that have no legal foundation. "Really, the goal seems to be (to demonize) Islam and (to marginalize) American Muslims," Hooper said. "Some (states) have passed these watered-down bills and declared a great victory. It's utter nonsense, but if your goal is to promote intolerance, I guess you won." After Oklahoma voters approved a law in 2010 barring state judges from considering Sharia law specifically in making decisions, federal courts granted an injunction preventing the law from taking effect. A three-judge panel of the U.S. 10^th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver upheld the injunction, ruling the law unfairly discriminated against a particular religion. Sharia, or Islamic law, covers all aspects of Muslim life including religious obligations and financial dealings, and opponents of state bans say they could nullify wills or legal contracts between Muslims. A report earlier this year showed that nearly a third of Americans believed American Muslims want to establish Sharia law in the United States. The same report, by the Brookings Institution and the Public Religion Research Institute, showed 88 percent of Americans acknowledged knowing little about Muslim beliefs. (Editing By Andrew Stern and Todd Eastham)
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Easy* on Sat May 12 21:10:08 2012, in response to Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:03:02 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Does the law specifically mention Islam? If so, is that constitutional? At the very least it's un-American. The article should cite some text so that we know, but it doesn't and neither do the others that I found.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat May 12 21:38:00 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:10:08 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d And if it doesn't, then there goes Rabbinical law too. But I guess nobody cares ...
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat May 12 21:39:44 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 12 21:38:00 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Good.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by JohnL* on Sat May 12 21:47:50 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 12 21:38:00 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d When events like this happen, that’s no bad thing.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat May 12 21:48:18 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:10:08 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Get off the lib pills. Has to do with foreign legal codes. Would you allow Catholic Canon Law to adjudicate over US law too?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Easy* on Sat May 12 21:49:47 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:48:18 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d So why ban one and not the other?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat May 12 21:50:30 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:49:47 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d What are you talking about? Go read the Supremacy Clause.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat May 12 21:57:50 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 12 21:39:44 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d I'm always amused at conservative's inability to detect the law of unintended consequences and cheer shit like this on. :(
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat May 12 21:58:35 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:49:47 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d There ya go! :)
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat May 12 22:03:41 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by JohnL on Sat May 12 21:47:50 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d +1
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sat May 12 22:13:03 2012, in response to Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:03:02 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Banning something against democracy and the principles of the US is against the US? ""People will ask, 'How narrow has that state become?'" Owens said. "How unwelcoming is this state?"" State is so narrow and unwelcoming as to protect LGBT, women, and minorities? Well if a judge can overturn the voters as they did in a nearby state, i guess a judge can 'save' kansas, state with a strong economy I think i hear.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sat May 12 22:14:03 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 12 22:03:41 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d +1 to the para-police force the so called 'occupiers' have for protecting their rapist too.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sat May 12 22:15:01 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:10:08 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Sounds like they ban international law. Unlike Mauritania, I applaud Kansas for banning slavery.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Dave* on Sat May 12 22:18:06 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat May 12 21:57:50 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d What leads you to think its unintended?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Sat May 12 22:19:30 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Dave on Sat May 12 22:18:06 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Because I'd hate to think that people are consciously supporting things that just might come down on their own ass some day. :(
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Dave* on Sat May 12 22:22:24 2012, in response to Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:03:02 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Has anyone read the actual legislation? I'm curious as to how it defines "foreign" law. Religious law? Non-US law? Non-Kansas law?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sat May 12 22:51:00 2012, in response to Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 12 21:03:02 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Mast said research showed more than 50 cases around the United States where courts or government agencies took laws from Sharia or other legal systems into account ... in regard to women's and children's rights," said…Reuters· 4 hours ago
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sat May 12 23:08:58 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Dave on Sat May 12 22:22:24 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d I can't even find what the legislation number is or it in search! Just this from one article that at least gave me a name which doesn't help. The other bill passed by the House, dubbed the "Kansas Laws for Kansas Courts Act," prohibits judges from making any ruling based on a foreign or religious law that is contrary to the state or federal Constitution. It doesn’t specifically mention sharia in order to distinguish itself from an Oklahoma law already declared unconstitutional.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by AlM* on Sun May 13 06:21:41 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Easy on Sat May 12 21:10:08 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d It looks like it is a law with zero effect. It doesn't ban the use of Sharia, Rabbinical Law, or Canon Law, for internal use by an organization to set its own rules. It doesn't ban contracts that agree to use one of those to settle disputes. And of course they never had any validity in government law to begin with.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Dave* on Sun May 13 10:54:59 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by AlM on Sun May 13 06:21:41 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d It looks like it is a law with zero effect. Not so. There can be cases where a religious court issues a decision and it is ignored by the losing party, e.g., a contractual dispute. The winning party can then go to civil (secular) court to enforce the judgement. This is quite common in cases where private arbitration is used to settle a dispute and the losing party refuses to abide by the decision.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel* on Mon May 14 10:51:37 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by JohnL on Sat May 12 21:47:50 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d When events like this happen, that’s no bad thing. None of those events have any basis in Rabbinic law, and no ban on Rabbinic law would stop those events.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by AlM* on Mon May 14 10:53:57 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon May 14 10:51:37 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d IAWTP.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:18:38 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by JohnL on Sat May 12 21:47:50 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d You used to be cool. Now you're an anti-Semite, calling those disgusting acts "rabbinic law"? WTF is wrong with you?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:19:09 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 12 22:03:41 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d No, he's wrong.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:19:43 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon May 14 10:51:37 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Exactly. Notice how he failed to apologize.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:19:59 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by AlM on Mon May 14 10:53:57 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Thanks.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Wed May 16 09:26:42 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon May 14 10:51:37 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d I disagree. People are hiding behind the tenets of their religion when it comes to avoiding secular justice. Not coöperating with gentile governments made sense in olden times in the old country when the Tsar was the enemy (and who properly got what was coming to him in 1918), but that is not true anymore. The police do not serve a worthless prince or potentate, they serve the people, including the people of this community.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Wed May 16 09:27:08 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 16 09:19:43 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Why would this justify an apology?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:42:14 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 16 09:27:08 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Because he called disgusting acts rabbinic law when they are not.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by TERRapin station* on Wed May 16 09:42:51 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 16 09:26:42 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d But that's not rabbinic law.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Wed May 16 09:48:30 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by TERRapin station on Wed May 16 09:42:51 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Why does that matter?
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by AlM* on Wed May 16 10:14:49 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 16 09:48:30 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Because abolition of rabbinic law (i.e., denying its use as a basis for arbitration, which is probably an unconstitutional impingement on contracts and not what the Kansas bill does anyway) would not prevent clannish groups from protecting miscreants in their midst.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Wed May 16 10:56:34 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by AlM on Wed May 16 10:14:49 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, but as I've stated elsewhere, there are references in the article to encouraging complainants to instead have the cases settled in their own community court rather than the government's courts.
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Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban
Posted by AlM* on Wed May 16 11:40:04 2012, in response to Re: Kansas lawmakers pass Sharia Law ban, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 16 10:56:34 2012.* fiogf49gjkf0d I don't see how any law issued by the government can ever prevent that sort of encouragement. This is always the case with closely-knit groups. Even if you could constitutionally forbid binding arbitration based on religious law, you can't ever outlaw non-binding arbitration that has the social force of the community behind it.
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