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The Rise of Western Civilization, from A-(almost) Z

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 09:02:27 2012

Where did Western Civilization come from? Here's the story of its origin, as told by HBD Chick and summarized by me, at my blog:

http://jayman.blog.com/2012/04/28/an-hbd-summary-of-the-foundations-of-modern-civilization/.

(936688)

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For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 13:35:48 2012, in response to The Rise of Western Civilization, from A-(almost) Z, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 09:02:27 2012.

Olog-hai, bingbong, and Chris R16/R2730.

Enjoy!

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Re: hey Jayman,

Posted by DAND124 on Sat Apr 28 13:40:24 2012, in response to For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 13:35:48 2012.

what do you think about this?

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Re:

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 13:43:52 2012, in response to For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 13:35:48 2012.

I don't read Nazi propaganda, but thanks.

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Re: hey Jayman,

Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 13:44:27 2012, in response to Re: hey Jayman,, posted by DAND124 on Sat Apr 28 13:40:24 2012.

Typical libertarian fascism. Opposing reunionization should be a Treason crime with a mandatory Death penalty.

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Re:

Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 13:46:56 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 13:43:52 2012.

HBD=Fascism. Ayeppa. BTW, Olog, I read your post about how stupid it is to be forced to pay for idiotic sports on TV. GOOD!!!

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Re:

Posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:19:11 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 13:46:56 2012.

idiotic sports

That statement is the very definition of an oxymoron.

The following salient which means notable excerpt from my post 280908Z APR12 clearly explains the fallacy of your reasoning and should rid you once and for all of the notion that sports is somehow marginalized when it comes to the betterment of the human condition and other things like that. You need to come correct Rockparkman, and as always, thanks for your active participation in The Rise of Western Civilization thread.

"It should be evident by now that I know a lot about sports and stuff like that but little else. To the extent I am not too bright it should come as no surprise that I am ignorant..."

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Re:

Posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:20:05 2012, in response to Re:, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:19:11 2012.

Precisely.

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Re:

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 14:20:30 2012, in response to Re:, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:19:11 2012.

Ain't nothing a good waterboarding can't fix.

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Re: hey Jayman,

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 14:27:47 2012, in response to Re: hey Jayman,, posted by DAND124 on Sat Apr 28 13:40:24 2012.

Sounds roughly right. I'm not sure if conservatives are more group-oriented than liberals are.

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Re:

Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 14:37:27 2012, in response to Re:, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:19:11 2012.

There's nothing ignorant about you. That having been said, I think it sucks that I should be forced to pay for something I find about as interesting as watching paint dry.

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Re:

Posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:53:54 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 14:37:27 2012.

... I think it sucks that I should be forced to pay for something I find about as interesting as watching paint dry.

If by that you mean s-ccer then by all means feel free to disregard my last post.


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Re:

Posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 15:01:21 2012, in response to Re:, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 14:53:54 2012.

I mean ALL sports.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 15:32:00 2012, in response to For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 13:35:48 2012.

Very interesting reading. The linked Maher video on Mississippi is instructive, too. Scary...but instructive.

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Re:

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 15:47:08 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Rockparkman on Sat Apr 28 13:46:56 2012.

Hopefully this HBD stuff doesn't catch on. Apartheid and forced segregation could be next.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 15:49:24 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 15:47:08 2012.

It depends on what people do with it.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 15:57:15 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 15:49:24 2012.

LOL!

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HBD

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 16:12:00 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 15:47:08 2012.

If it's true (which it is), it will catch on. How long can people ignore what their lyin' eyes tell them?

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Re: HBD

Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 28 16:21:14 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 15:57:15 2012.

So which is it? Do guns kill people or do people kill people with guns?

By the logic you've displayed on this subject it's clear that you blame the tool for the damage done by the person wielding it and thus believe guns kill people. HBD is merely a tool, and one which does not necessarily serve to control or kill people. Instead it can serve, with other sociological theories, to provide a deeper understanding of our behavior on the macro scale. I can't say I'm sold on the conclusions they draw, but to dismiss those conclusions out of hand is simply ignorant.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:23:03 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 15:49:24 2012.

People are people so we know what many would do.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 16:35:45 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 28 16:21:14 2012.

Excellent post.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 16:55:09 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 15:32:00 2012.

Thanks! Yes, I though Pelosi's video was very informative as well. She should make more videos, chronicling what Americans really think, because I believe liberals have their head in the clouds about certain things...

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:57:59 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by WillD on Sat Apr 28 16:21:14 2012.

Except that HBDers aren't especially objective and know the result that they're looking for.

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Re: HBD

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 17:00:23 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:23:03 2012.

I'm going to be the first to admit that people are stupid. And then some. Most will not understand HBD for what it means and what it doesn't.

Those considered, it is your opinion that we behave as if this stuff isn't true, even though it is, for society's own good? That's a serious question.

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Re: HBD

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 17:01:38 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:57:59 2012.

That's not really a valid criticism. That's essentially an ad hominem.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 17:02:22 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:57:59 2012.

I disagree. I basically "believe" in HBD but I find it bleak and wish it weren't true. But facts are facts regardless of how they make us feel. It might make me feel better to believe that my grandmother is in heaven and we will someday be reunited, and in a loving God, but I know it's all bullshit told to children to make them sleep better at night.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:05:32 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 17:00:23 2012.

Yeah I'd say that we should for now. It's the kind of thing where you need to be 100%?sure before offering such ideas as fact.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:19:14 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 17:02:22 2012.

Maybe but it doesnt do any good to argue with other people about heaven or hell either. Most people aren't scientists and wars are fought over both religion and HBD.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 17:21:49 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:19:14 2012.

I feel that overcoming ignorance is a noble goal.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:25:04 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 17:01:38 2012.

I disagree. Has Steve Sailer ever offered counter arguments for any reason other than to refute them? And theres too much emphasis on the negative HBD characteristics of non-whites. And what about the biological principle that generic diversity is superior? That doesn't seem to come up often with HBDers from what I've seen. I don't read them often so maybe I'm wrong.

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Re: HBD

Posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:26:08 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 17:21:49 2012.

Of course.

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Re: HBD

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 17:56:17 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:05:32 2012.

I don't really see the wisdom in that. First, certainty can't really be attained without putting knowledge out there for more research to be done to test the ideas.

As well, thanks to genomic sequencing we pretty much are as certain as we reasonably expect to be, as genetic links to behavioral differences have been found. Even if all the other pieces of evidence are tentative individually, the genetic links serve as a proof-of-concept that essentially validates the rest.

Even then, if you fear that the knowledge would be misused if it were out, then what difference would the added certainty bring, other than to embolden whatever misuse you have in mind?

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Re: HBD

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 18:05:51 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 17:25:04 2012.

Has Steve Sailer ever offered counter arguments for any reason other than to refute them?

Yes, there are plenty of unknowns. And even if the "HBD'ers" themselves don't offer counter arguments, there are plenty of detractors out there to do the job—who indeed serve a useful purpose, as they perform essential criticism to allows to be more certain of our conclusions.

And theres too much emphasis on the negative HBD characteristics of non-whites.

I agree. I am more than happy to point out the flaws of Whites, and the strengths of other groups where relevant. Most of the HBD crowd is a right-leaning group and too much conservative rubbish gets mixed in (not to mention the actual White nationalists and racists in the crowd).

And what about the biological principle that generic diversity is superior?

Well that depends on the context. In terms of robustness against unknown environmental changes/calamities, most races have enough genetic variability within them to accomplish that goal. As well, individuals from all races have contributed positively thanks their group-typical strengths (some more than others).

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Re: HBD

Posted by WillD on Sat Apr 28 18:07:46 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 16:57:59 2012.

Yeah, I'd say that's true. HBD does seem to be gripped by the same sort of ethnocentric confirmation bias that lead us down the road to environmental determinism being the go-to sociological theory despite excusing a whole host of simply racist practices prior to WWII.

But of course even if HBD is just environmental determinism in its most evolved form and it turns out to be every bit as incorrect as its predecessor, that does not excuse Olog's hypocritical dismissal of it on the grounds that the tool is to be blamed for its use.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 18:23:08 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 16:55:09 2012.

The problem isn't what Americans "really" think, it's that, too often, they don't think at all.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 18:52:39 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 18:23:08 2012.

Yeah but "Dog TV" is about to light up ... finally something of intellectual value for republicans. :)

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 19:02:13 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 18:52:39 2012.

Republicans...who have the director of my play up in arms, every time they try to kill (early and often) the National Endowment for the Arts...now what was that about "Republicans" and "intellectuals"...lolwut?

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 19:07:33 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 19:02:13 2012.

NEA really needs to cater a bit to republicans ... shower them with grants for some GOP art. :)



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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 19:17:31 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 19:07:33 2012.

LMAOOO!!! SCREAMING!!! Gonna steal this one.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 19:30:28 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 19:02:13 2012.

I am going to try to become an artist or possibly a college lacrosse coach if my brothers and sisters eventually strike. I can paint like Edward Hopper who was born in Nyack - I'll post some of my work at a time and place of my choosing I mean it. To better illustrate my point, here is one of my favorite paintings. It is called Early Sunday Morning by Edward Hopper (b. Nyack).


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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 19:46:20 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 19:30:28 2012.

I remember that one being on the cover of a telephone book but I can't remember which one after all these years ...

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 19:50:32 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by cortelyounext on Sat Apr 28 19:30:28 2012.

I have the poster framed and hanging in my living room and I saw the original at the Whitney last year. It is a masterpiece and that is a fact.

(936863)

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 22:07:07 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Apr 28 19:02:13 2012.

According to them, you and your play are destroying America.


I should point out that I disagree so there's no confusion.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by DAND124 on Sat Apr 28 22:13:41 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 22:07:07 2012.

some just thin that the play shouldn't be subsidized.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 22:26:19 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 22:07:07 2012.

But destroying America is the thing to do ever since they lost the election in 2008! :)

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Apr 28 22:34:49 2012, in response to For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 28 13:35:48 2012.

Um, there was something in the previous post?

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Re:

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Apr 28 22:40:37 2012, in response to Re:, posted by Easy on Sat Apr 28 15:47:08 2012.

Hopefully this HBD stuff doesn't catch on. Apartheid and forced segregation could be next.

Despite accepting HBD as a sensible theory to explain certain issues, I'd concur with your statement. It's one of those things that you really can't trust the average person with.

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Re:

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 28 22:53:17 2012, in response to Re:, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Apr 28 22:40:37 2012.

Despite accepting HBD as a sensible theory to explain certain issues

High bone density can indeed explain certain issues.

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Re: HBD

Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sat Apr 28 23:01:41 2012, in response to Re: HBD, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Apr 28 17:02:22 2012.

I basically "believe" in HBD but I find it bleak and wish it weren't true.

There are times where reading certain posts and comments in the HBDsphere makes one want to grab hard liquor and drink until one blacks out. Mind you, it's a different issue for those of us who are on the wrong side of the racial spectrum.

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Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Apr 29 07:56:22 2012, in response to Re: For LuchAAA, SMAZ, JayZee, Scorpio7, AEM7, Spider-Pig, gp38/r42 chris,, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 28 22:26:19 2012.

I'm afraid it's the other way around, when the Democrats lost in 2000, they went on this partisan campaign, which did shit sides in 2008, but continues. YOu obviously forgot what the left was like from 2000-2008.

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