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(928185)

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SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 16:32:02 2012

LION has been thinking about education in this country. His conclusion is that we (Federal) are putting money in the wrong place. We are spending money to help people go to college, yet with people with this level of education can probably get into college without anybody's help, and that money is better spent elsewhere.

Bush proposed that "No Child Left Behind". But it is not the children that we are worried about either.

LION says that the problem is with young adults, that is say grades 9 to 14. Those who are not college candidates, those who drop out of high school are the ones who need help from Federal dollars.

LION proposes that LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICTS take full responsibility for grades K - 8. True there may need to be some state aid, but the CONTROL of the schools should rest in the community.

LION proposes that STATE or CENTRAL SCHOOL SYSTEMS should full responsibility for grades 9 - 14.

Eighth Grade is the place where there is a fork in the road for students. Most students will go on to high school as is normal, and as you can see the transfer to community college (call it grades 13 and 14) is as simple and normal a transition as the transition from grade 6 to 7 was in my day in age. True, many will shift to a four year college right after grade 12. More power to them, especially since they will have to fund that for themselves.

The other fork is VOCATIONAL SCHOOL, implemented from grades 9 - 14.
Students will choose either one track or the other. They are also able to shift from one track to the other albeit with some time penalties.

LION will now explore his idea of VOCATIONAL SCHOOL:

The 9th grade level is mostly classroom, mostly didactic with emphasis on the way the trades work, what laws apply to workers, license in various trades, and how people work. They will discern what trade they want to follow.

The 10th grade level begins to see these students beginning to work as apprentice trades people under the tutelage of skilled workers in the work place. They will earn a stipend of about 1/2 minimum wage (the balance of their "wage" is retained by the employer to cover the costs of educating the student.

The 11th grade level continues on the job training at 3/4 minimum wage.

The 12th grade level continues at full minimum wage.

The 13th grade level continues at 1/2 union wage.

The 14th grade level continues at 3/4 union wage.

In all grade levels a Vocational student is supervised not only by an employer, but also by a licensed teacher who follows the student's progress and follows up with educational assignments that direct to student selected educational goals, especially in arithmetic and grammar and spelling.

The student should be graduating from the vocational program ready to work at the Journeyman level.

Business and Unions may combine, or even work independently to craft the programs that are to be offered. If a student wishes to pursue a trade or craft that is not covered by the system, the licensed teacher/adviser will contact businesses to craft a program for the student.

LION THINKS that such a program will keep young people from dropping out, and will help them transition into the work force. It is possible to expel students who do not cooperate with the program, abuse drugs or alcohol or are otherwise involved with criminal activity.

ROAR

(928249)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 18:13:56 2012, in response to SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 16:32:02 2012.

One additional thought ... since "society" now demands a college education even to flip burgers, the old standard of high school as mandatory should be applied to college as well for the same reason why high school became mandatory. And public ...

That oughta set off some republicans. :)

(928256)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 18:41:13 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 18:13:56 2012.

I'd be happy just to set off some Democrats at this point.

The reason why you need a college degree to flip burgers is that the possession of such a degree demonstrates that you are willing and able to work, to follow directions and get assignments turned in on time, something that is unfortunately sadly lacking in a high school diploma.

I do not think that a four year college degree is required of everyone, but an Associate Degree seems to be the new minimum. LION would certainly expect that Community Colleges will be available to all who wish it, and it should be encouraged, and should be on the taxpayer's dime. If one wants to enter a full four year college right out of grade 12, then this is always possible, but on your own dime. Transition from a two year college to a four year college is also to be encouraged.

But the LION is not focusing on college in this discussion, but on those who do not go to college. LION thinks that a proper vocational education will not dump people into the labor market as "Entry Level" but rather at the Journeyman level.

LION sees putting Federal Money on the table to promote this branch of education. Contract with UNIONS to help train up people to the levels required by their trades and by their employers. Contract with some of the bigger employers to run trade schools on their own.

The Electric Cooperatives in North Dakota do just this: They do run a school to train linemen and the other workers that they need. You can see them out in the yard all year round, setting up poles, stringing wires and doing the work that will be required of them.

LION is not worried about those who can... He wants to help those who have not.

ROAR

(928259)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by Rockparkman on Fri Apr 6 18:47:12 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 18:41:13 2012.


"The Electric Cooperatives in North Dakota do just this: They do run a school to train linemen and the other workers that they need. You can see them out in the yard all year round, setting up poles, stringing wires and doing the work that will be required of them."
An interesting example in light of the fact that many community colleges offer equivalent training as Associate's programs. This is a REFRESHING post, Lion.



(928260)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 18:54:37 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 18:41:13 2012.

Heh. You know I had to ... :)

And I agree that the goal posts of education have shifted, and your offer is certainly more reasonable than what we're seeing so far. Just wanted to bring it up though because once upon a time, high school was for the elite. And those goal posts have once again moved.



(928302)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 21:36:42 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 18:54:37 2012.

But some people are still tilting at the wrong goal!

(928303)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 21:42:36 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 21:36:42 2012.

I'm sure you recall that I'm a big booster of "vocational" since it sure does pay better than most gigs. Alas, in this country, making things and fixing things is sneered upon. So let's bring out some more MBA's. :)

(928363)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 08:07:48 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Apr 6 21:42:36 2012.

You want fries with that?

(928390)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by JayMan on Sat Apr 7 09:44:14 2012, in response to SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Apr 6 16:32:02 2012.

Great idea, I think.

You will not completely stem the problem of people dropping out however. Some people (IQ < 80) make for shitty workers no matter what you do with them. Most of them are too dumb/too undisciplined to do even the most menial of work. They will be essentially untrainable in the vocational program you propose which still requires a shit ton of self control.

Then of course, there is the issue of whether or not there are enough skilled trade jobs to employ these people.

In my view, you are aiming to catch the folks in the 90-110 IQ range, the people who are not smart enough for college and many of which end up wasting their time there and either drop out or end up with useless degrees. However, high school drop outs are overwhelmingly of the < 90 crowd. You plan will probably only help those on the upper end of that range (which fortunately is most), but then, only some will benefit.

(928547)

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Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Apr 7 17:01:48 2012, in response to Re: SENDING LIONS TO SCHOOL, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Apr 7 08:07:48 2012.

What? No onion rings?!?! :)


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