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Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 13:04:16 2012 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-09/take-birth-control-battle-over-the-counter-commentary-by-virginia-postrel.htmlAnyone -- a local teenager, a traveling businessman, a married mother of four, an illegal immigrant, even a student at a Jesuit university -- can walk into my neighborhood CVS any time, day or night, and, for less than $30, buy a 36-count “value pack” of Trojan condoms. That’s enough to last most Americans at least three months, according to Kinsey Institute surveys. If you want more, you can buy out the store’s entire stock. There’s no limit, and you don’t need to see a doctor for permission and a prescription. Contrary to widespread belief, there’s no good reason that oral contraceptives -- a far more effective form of birth control -- can’t be equally convenient. True, making the pill available over the counter could reduce the amount of outrage and invective available for entertaining radio audiences, spurring political fundraising and otherwise amusing the American public. But the medical risks are quite low. Partly because birth-control pills are available only by prescription, people tend to think they’re more dangerous and less well understood than they actually are. In fact, “more is known about the safety of oral contraceptives than has been known about any other drug in the history of medicine,” declared an editorial in the American Journal of Public Health back in 1993. That editorial accompanied an article arguing for over-the-counter sales. Safer Than Ever Unlike most medications, the article noted, birth-control pills require no medical diagnosis: “A woman herself determines her need for oral contraception; she assesses her own risk of pregnancy ... and the costs and benefits of both pregnancy and alternative contraceptions.” Nearly two decades later, birth- control pills look even safer than they did then, and recent research indicates that women are both able and eager to manage their own purchase decisions. Requiring a prescription “acts more as a barrier to access rather than providing medically necessary supervision,” argues Daniel Grossman of Ibis Reproductive Health, a research and advocacy group based in Massachusetts, in an article published in September in Expert Review of Obstetrics & Gynecology. Birth-control pills can have side effects, of course, but so can such over-the-counter drugs as antihistamines, ibuprofen or the Aleve that once turned me into a scary, hive-covered monster. That’s why even the most common over-the-counter drugs, including aspirin, carry warning labels. Most women aren’t at risk from oral contraceptives, however, just as most patients aren’t at risk from aspirin or Benadryl, and studies suggest that a patient checklist can catch most potential problems. To further increase safety, over-the-counter sales could start with a progestin-only formulation, sometimes called the “minipill,” rather than the more-common combinations of progestin and estrogen. (Although we casually refer to “The Pill,” oral contraceptives actually come in about 100 formulations.) Progestin-only pills, or POPs, have fewer contraindications. Unlike combination pills, they’re OK for women with hypertension, for instance, or smokers over the age of 35. The main dangers are fairly rare conditions such as breast cancer or current liver disease. “Not only are POP contraindications rare, but women appear to be able to accurately identify them using a simple checklist without the aid of a clinician,” declares an article forthcoming in the journal Contraception. Doctors’ Financial Interest Aside from safety, the biggest argument for keeping birth- control pills prescription-only is, to put it bluntly, extortion. The current arrangement forces women to go to the doctor at least once a year, usually submitting to a pelvic exam, if they want this extremely reliable form of contraception. That demand may suit doctors’ paternalist instincts and financial interests, but it doesn’t serve patients’ needs. As the 1993 article’s authors noted, the exam requirement “assumes that it would be worse for a woman’s health to miss out on routine care than it would be to miss out on taking oral contraceptives.” Going to the doctor is costly in time, money and sometimes in dignity. Not surprisingly, the prescription requirement deters use of oral contraceptives. In a 2004 phone survey, 68 percent of American women said they would start the pill or another form of hormonal birth control, such as the patch, if they could buy it in a pharmacy with screening by a pharmacist instead of getting a doctor’s prescription. Two-thirds of blacks and slightly more than half of whites and Latinas surveyed said they chose their current, less-effective method of birth control because it didn’t require a prescription. Right now, the American women who have the most choice are those who live near the border with Mexico, where pharmacies sell oral contraceptives without a prescription, generally for about $5 for a one-month supply. A group of researchers including Grossman have conducted extensive interviews with more than 1,000 women who live in El Paso, Texas. Roughly half the women get birth-control pills from local clinics, often free, while the other half go across the border to pharmacies in Ciudad Juarez. The researchers find, not surprisingly, that those who cross the border have more ties to Mexico; 77 percent were born there, compared with 60 percent of clinic users. But there are also differences in priorities. “Among pharmacy users, very large percentages noted both not having to go to a doctor to get a prescription and being able to send a friend or relative to pick up their pills as advantages of Mexican pharmacies,” the researchers write in a June 2010 article in the American Journal of Public Health. Clinic users, on the other hand, cite low cost and the availability of other health services. Convenient and Reasonable In addition, the authors note, for many clinic users crossing the border to buy contraceptives “was neither convenient nor free of risk; more than half expressed a fear of being stopped by US customs upon their return.” Nonetheless, Grossman notes in an e-mail, the research “showed that US resident women are interested in OTC access when it’s convenient and available at a reasonable price.” One result from the El Paso study surprised researchers. “Women who got the pill in clinics were significantly more likely to stop using it during the study -- even though they still didn’t want to get pregnant,” Grossman says. That’s a big deal. In fact, he says, “my hope was that we would show that continuation was no worse for the OTC group, but in fact we showed it was better.” This suggests that having to see a doctor to get a prescription renewed really does drive women away from oral contraceptives. “People rarely tell you, ‘I ran out and I was too lazy to get my prescription renewed,’” says Joseph Potter, a University of Texas demographer who worked on the El Paso research. “They say they quit because of side effects.” But the problem isn’t really laziness or, for that matter, out-of- pocket expense. It’s all the things that get in the way. Potter recalls an airplane conversation with a department-store executive who said that poor women weren’t the only ones to quit the pill because they couldn’t get to a doctor. She’d done the same thing, because she was busy. The real question now isn’t whether allowing over-the- counter sales would benefit women and prevent unwanted pregnancies -- the evidence is overwhelming that it would -- but whether any pharmaceutical maker wants to change the status quo. For a pill already approved by the Food and Drug Administration for prescription sales, getting over-the-counter approval would require an estimated $10 million to pay for new studies. And, of course, there would be huge marketing costs to establish the new brand. The company best positioned to make the switch is probably Johnson & Johnson. (JNJ) Its McNeil Consumer Healthcare division, most famous for Tylenol, has lots of experience marketing formerly prescription-only products, including Nicorette, Motrin and Pepcid. Most important, its drug Ortho Micronor is one of the few progestin-only pills already registered with the FDA. (Minipills are more common in Europe, but moving one of those drugs to the U.S. would require millions more in regulatory expenses just to get approval for prescription sales.) Will J&J or another company take a chance on creating the Advil of oral contraceptives -- making a prescription product a touchstone consumer brand? Are there public policy changes that could encourage the switch? If you’re actually interested in preventing unwanted pregnancies rather than merely scoring political points, these are the questions you should be asking. (Virginia Postrel is a Bloomberg View columnist. She is the author of “The Future and Its Enemies” and “The Substance of Style,” and is writing a book on glamour. The opinions expressed are her own.) |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 13:48:33 2012, in response to Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 13:04:16 2012. One can check their blood pressure at most, if not all, pharmacies. For most women, that is screening enough. The average woman should get a Pap smear every 3 years, anything beyond that frequency for those with a history of negative smears is overkill. I sincerely hope one of the drug companies realizes that this would be one *extremely* lucrative market. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:04:05 2012, in response to Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 13:04:16 2012. There's a difference between condoms and "the pill". One is a medicaton that has effects on the body when taken.Condoms aren't medication, it's just a sheet of material placed over a body part. it's not an internal medicine. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Sun Mar 11 18:19:55 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:04:05 2012. But its the womans choice... the woman should be told of the risks involved with birth control and sign a waiver says "I've been told of possible side effects of the drug" and then handed it. As long as the woman knows the possible dangers and side effects of the contraceptive then it should be as legal and as easy to get as condoms are for men. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:21:47 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by ClearAspect on Sun Mar 11 18:19:55 2012. Yeah....that's what a prescription is for.To compare the pill to condoms is ridiculous. One is a medication, the other is nothing medical at all. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Sun Mar 11 18:24:51 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:21:47 2012. Condoms are medical... |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 18:41:07 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:04:05 2012. There's a difference between condoms and "the pill". One is a medicaton that has effects on the body when taken.Advil is a medication that effects the body and is available over the counter |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 18:49:42 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:04:05 2012. That is a ridiculous argument. Any medicine affects the body. Even latex affects those who are allergic to it, so don't dismiss that.Any adult should be able to make their own choices as to what to put in their bodies. Birth control pills are incredibly safe, especially for younger women. Anyone with no complications as determined by a doctor should be able to get pills OTC. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 20:21:38 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 18:21:47 2012. If you believe that condoms are medical then you might be using them incorrectly. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 20:25:46 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 18:49:42 2012. Then you can make the same idiotic argument for any prescription drug. Got a throat infection, take an anti-biotic. Got cancer, take a chemo drug. Got depression? Got anxiety? And if you got hunger pains: |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:51:44 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 20:21:38 2012. Yeah, exactly. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:53:28 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 18:49:42 2012. Oh please, if you think latex condoms are the same as "taking the pill", you really are more gone than once thought. It's safe to take many prescription medicines, doesn't mean they should be in the aisle next to the asprins. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 20:54:42 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:53:28 2012. It's safe to take many prescription medicines, doesn't mean they should be in the aisle next to the asprins.why not? i thought you were opposed to nanny laws. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:56:22 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 20:54:42 2012. Medication is not a "nanny law". |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 20:59:16 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:56:22 2012. preventing it from being sold over the counter for no reason is. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:06:05 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 20:59:16 2012. It's not the same as Condoms. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:07:29 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:06:05 2012. if it's safe why shouldn't if be available over the counter? |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:08:21 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:07:29 2012. So are plenty of medications behind the counter. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:09:08 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:08:21 2012. can you explain why it shouldn't be available over the counter. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:15:00 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 20:53:28 2012. You really don't like the idea of women controlling their own lives, do you?Nobody said they'd be available next to the aspirins. OTC means you have to get them at the pharmacy counter. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:15:02 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:09:08 2012. Prescription drugs are only safe for the individuals who actually have prescriptions for them. That's because a doctor has examined these people and prescribed the right dose of medication for a specific medical condition. The doctor has also told them exactly how they should take the medicine, including things to avoid while taking the drug — such as taking other medications. They also are aware of potential side effects and can monitor patients closely for these. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:16:29 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:15:00 2012. You really don't like the idea of women controlling their own lives, do you?Oh please. How come Levitra isn't over the counter? This has nothing to do with man vs woman as you continually try to make it. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:18:03 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:15:02 2012. birth control pills are just as safe as many medications that are currently available over the counter, given that why shouldn't they be available over the counter. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:19:38 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:15:02 2012. Shows what you know. Pharmacists are the one who do the tracking for interactions. Most doctors are only aware of what they prescribe. A pharmacist providing OTC pills to a woman can warn her that the antibiotic she's been prescribed will neutralize the pill's effectiveness, and that she needs a backup contraceptive. No doctor's gonna go into that depth with a patient, they simply don't have the time.Clearly you know little to nothing about this. |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:19:50 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:16:29 2012. How come Levitra isn't over the counter? because it's more profitable by prescription because they can charge higher prices and insurance will cover it. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:27:41 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:19:50 2012. ED pills can have serious side effects WRT blood pressure and heart rates. That's why they're prescription. Many guys that want these ED drugs can't have them. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:31:08 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:27:41 2012. ED pills can have serious side effects WRT blood pressure and heart ratesso can decongestants. the reason most prescription are denied is because the cause is often psychosomatic. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:50:03 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:19:38 2012. Clearly, you are just as ridiculous as usual.And what would stop someone from getting one prescription at CVS, and filling another at Walgreens. It's not up to the pharmacist either. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:50:18 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by dand124 on Sun Mar 11 21:31:08 2012. True, but not at the same rate as these ED drugs do. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:53:31 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:27:41 2012. A side effect of Birth control pills can also be hypertension, so fail. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 21:58:08 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:50:18 2012. Estrogen based birth control pills can also affect heart and other organs. They can result in the growth of cancers as well. Are you now deeming yourself qualified to judge them safe for over the counter distribution? If so, I congratulate you on the growth of your ego. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:59:20 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:50:03 2012. They keep the document. Does it every time. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 21:59:56 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:53:31 2012. But she's pronounced them safe enough for over the counter distribution. Who are we to disagree? |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:00:48 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 21:58:08 2012. The article states that the progestin pills are the best candidate for OTC status. Read it. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:02:59 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:00:48 2012. Conservatards don't have to read anything. It passes through the Rushbo by osmosis ... :) |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:03:08 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 21:53:31 2012. Which can be monitored at the pharmacy. If blood pressure is too high, the sale can be rescinded until cleared by a doctor. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:04:16 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:02:59 2012. Apparently we don't need to. We have selkock and seldouche deciding all of the critical issues for us. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:05:26 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:03:08 2012. so now you'll have a pharmacist making medical decisions? My sanitation man would like to do brain surgery on you. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:06:33 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 21:59:20 2012. Yes. But CVS doesn't know if Walgreens gave her a conflicting medication. |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:12:17 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:06:33 2012. When HCR mandates for contraceptive coverage commence, women won't have to price-hunt for a pharmacy, and will likely, due to convenience, get everything filled at one pharmacy for convenience. End of that problem. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:13:00 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:03:08 2012. You just used it as an example for why "Levitra" shouldn't be over the counter, but then said it's okay for the pill. If it needs to be cleared by a doctor, that's what prescriptions are for.Some woman taking them, but who unknowingly has hypertension because she doesn't even need to check in with a doctor. No sale is rescinded (thanks for your absurdity though, your post made me laugh out loud, as on one could possibly be serious in stating the nonsense you spout. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:13:46 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:12:17 2012. LOL!!!!! |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:18:00 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:04:16 2012. Yep ... like the difference between estrogen and progesterone ... onward Christian soldiers, brah ... :) |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:18:48 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:13:00 2012. Like I've said numerous times (and am getting tired of repeating it....READ first, then answer) already, they can check that when a woman goes to purchase pills (especially the first time) It takes 90 seconds to check blood pressure. Most pharmacies have machines where customers can do it while waiting. This is an easy screen.Read what I wrote before answering, k? |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:22:02 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Mar 11 22:13:46 2012. Good to see that you have the capacity to laugh at yourself. That's a good thing. |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:29:06 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:18:00 2012. You are suppose to be the Christian but............I'm quite sure that we are all aware that there is a difference between the two. Which one are you on? |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:30:30 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:29:06 2012. I thought we went through that LAST night ... $2.89 a gallon gas. :) |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:32:12 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:18:48 2012. Yup - "just hop up on the counter, Ms. Jones and we'll see if you have any abnormal or precancerous cells on the cervix." I wonder if they'll be filming that with the stores security cameras. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:32:56 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Mar 11 22:30:30 2012. Wrong gas. Methane from doughnut consumption doesn't work too well. |
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Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Mar 11 22:33:44 2012, in response to Re: Fight Birth Control Battle Over the Counter, posted by Train Dude on Sun Mar 11 22:32:12 2012. That has nothing to do with contraceptive pills. Not that I'd expect youto know anything about that. Now bend (snap!) over..... |
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