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Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 28 16:23:27 2012 People Aren't Smart Enough for Democracy to Flourish, Scientists SayBy Natalie Wolchover | LiveScience.com The democratic process relies on the assumption that citizens (the majority of them, at least) can recognize the best political candidate, or best policy idea, when they see it. But a growing body of research has revealed an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche that would seem to disprove this notion, and imply instead that democratic elections produce mediocre leadership and policies. The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people's ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments. As a result, no amount of information or facts about political candidates can override the inherent inability of many voters to accurately evaluate them. On top of that, "very smart ideas are going to be hard for people to adopt, because most people don’t have the sophistication to recognize how good an idea is," Dunning told Life's Little Mysteries. He and colleague Justin Kruger, formerly of Cornell and now of New York University, have demonstrated again and again that people are self-delusional when it comes to their own intellectual skills. Whether the researchers are testing people's ability to rate the funniness of jokes, the correctness of grammar, or even their own performance in a game of chess, the duo has found that people always assess their own performance as "above average" — even people who, when tested, actually perform at the very bottom of the pile. [Incompetent People Too Ignorant to Know It] We're just as undiscerning about the skills of others as about ourselves. "To the extent that you are incompetent, you are a worse judge of incompetence in other people," Dunning said. In one study, the researchers asked students to grade quizzes that tested for grammar skill. "We found that students who had done worse on the test itself gave more inaccurate grades to other students." Essentially, they didn't recognize the correct answer even when they saw it. The reason for this disconnect is simple: "If you have gaps in your knowledge in a given area, then you’re not in a position to assess your own gaps or the gaps of others," Dunning said. Strangely though, in these experiments, people tend to readily and accurately agree on who the worst performers are, while failing to recognize the best performers. The most incompetent among us serve as canaries in the coal mine signifying a larger quandary in the concept of democracy; truly ignorant people may be the worst judges of candidates and ideas, Dunning said, but we all suffer from a degree of blindness stemming from our own personal lack of expertise. Mato Nagel, a sociologist in Germany, recently implemented Dunning and Kruger's theories by computer-simulating a democratic election. In his mathematical model of the election, he assumed that voters' own leadership skills were distributed on a bell curve — some were really good leaders, some, really bad, but most were mediocre — and that each voter was incapable of recognizing the leadership skills of a political candidate as being better than his or her own. When such an election was simulated, candidates whose leadership skills were only slightly better than average always won. Nagel concluded that democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders." This story was provided by Life's Little Mysteries, a sister site to LiveScience. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 28 16:53:42 2012, in response to Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 28 16:23:27 2012. Nagel concluded that democracies rarely or never elect the best leaders. Their advantage over dictatorships or other forms of government is merely that they "effectively prevent lower-than-average candidates from becoming leaders."I'll accept that advantage. I think it's an understatement, though. I think every president since Harding has been a better leader than the average American would have been. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:01:21 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by AlM on Tue Feb 28 16:53:42 2012. I'll accept that advantageThen go live in a dictatorship. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:02:41 2012, in response to Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 28 16:23:27 2012. Figured you'd post something like this. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Feb 28 19:06:28 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:01:21 2012. Um, I don't think you read what I wrote or the original post said.In a dictatorship, you have no protection against getting someone worse than average (possibly far worse than average on the moral scale) as your leader. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 20:26:30 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:02:41 2012. you're the biggest Nazi here, shitboy. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 20:28:37 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:01:21 2012. If Britain and the other underperforming countries of Europe don't buckle under to the EU, we'll ALL be living in a dictatorship. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:42:24 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 20:26:30 2012. Stop talking to yourself, rocKKKparKKKnaziwhoreantisemiteantiIsraelwalkingloadofvomit. Besides, you're just mad I stole your thunder by Godwinizing the thread title . . . |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:46:32 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 20:28:37 2012. The EU's the biggest dictatorship in the West, rocKKKparKKKnazi. Yet you support them over Israel, just like you support the anti-Israel UN who once declared Zionism "racism". Just crawl in a corner and sierra tango foxtrot uniform already . . . |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 28 20:49:34 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:42:24 2012. Heh. You're all worked up. :) |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:51:41 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 28 20:49:34 2012. Let's all join together and defend democracy . . . let's do it . . . |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 28 20:58:48 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:51:41 2012. I'm too busy with rouding up anonymous right now. Here ... have a long iron, the war's thataway ... |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 21:38:21 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:46:32 2012. Suck my dick, Shitboy. Fuck, you're EASY. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 22:16:47 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 21:38:21 2012. Do you really have a dick that could be cut off you? |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 07:04:57 2012, in response to Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 28 16:23:27 2012. There's a reason "that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried." NW Europeans and their descendants are by far the people best suited to democracy (having invented the modern form of it), but even then, you see the limitations involved.This is just another fancy way of saying that people are stoooopid.... |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 07:05:46 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:02:41 2012. Is all research into human nature "Nazi" for you? |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 07:06:45 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 20:46:32 2012. Ironic since they invented democracy... |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Feb 29 07:29:15 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 07:05:46 2012. Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?your pal, Fred |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 08:38:38 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Fred G on Wed Feb 29 07:29:15 2012. Good point, on many levels... |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 29 16:47:22 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Fred G on Wed Feb 29 07:29:15 2012. 
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Feb 29 19:14:51 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Feb 28 20:26:30 2012. rofl, says the guy who think's he's going to have a job stuffing people in Barry's "work camps" and not be in it. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Feb 29 19:15:54 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by JayMan on Wed Feb 29 07:04:57 2012. It's a Smaz post, therefore it's retarded.This is way we live in a representative republic. The racist slave owning founders wrote the same thing about the ills of democracy. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 29 20:01:17 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by orange blossom special on Wed Feb 29 19:14:51 2012. I wouldn't go that far. The man may be extraordinarily impressed by such leaders, but he isn't going to emulate them to a point. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Feb 29 20:18:23 2012, in response to Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Tue Feb 28 16:23:27 2012. Yet, democracy gave us Washington, Lincoln, Churchill, FDR, HST, JFK, and Thatcher, to name just a few. Democracy gave us FDR at a most propitious time in history, when few other men could have brought us through the challenges to the country, that he did.I'd add Obama (who has successfully passed more legislation than all of our past Presidents, except FDR, Lincoln, LBJ, and Washington, brought the stock market back to 13,000+ for the first time since 2008, brokered the first meaningful nuclear-arms talks since Clinton, and done more to fight international terrorism than GWB did in two terms), but I don't want to spend the rest of this thread dealing with the Obama-bashers...LOL! |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 1 09:00:03 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 29 20:01:17 2012. He isn't smart enough to emulate anyone considering he ever remembers what's in those executive orders he signs without asking to be reminded, sends 'jopseh r biden' to 'road island', and gets history screwed up, like the statue of liberty farce.It's the puppetmasters. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 1 09:01:55 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 29 20:01:17 2012. Oh, and the point of that article is he's impressed at the wheeling and dealing in that he likes a group of leaders looking out for themselves, and all giving things away to each other to make a deal.Notice in the scenario the debate is not what should we do, but shifts will we all get our 'fair share' if we do it. That's what he's into for the US, it's like big city machine politics. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 1 13:06:23 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Feb 29 20:18:23 2012. Churchill's prime ministership had nothing to do with democracy and Thatcher was such a colossal failure that all Labour has to do when they are in the dumps is mention her name in order to win (or at least avert a Tory win) just like Democrats did with Hoover for two generations.Democracy also gave us Mussolini, Hitler, George W Bush and Hamas. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 1 15:00:34 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 1 13:06:23 2012. Don't forget the Islamic Brotherhood in "liberated" Egypt. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 1 15:20:18 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 1 15:00:34 2012. Yep.and Milosevic. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 4 20:49:18 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by SMAZ on Thu Mar 1 13:06:23 2012. Linking Bush with the other three is sick and disgusting. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 4 21:01:08 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 4 20:49:18 2012. Indeed my apologies to Hitler and Mussolini.They served their country in uniform during their generation's war and were actually elected. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 4 21:04:31 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 4 20:49:18 2012. What do you want from the left? The truth?? Yet you embrace their bullshit more and more of late, I see.If you want to rub it in, his country (Italy) has an appointed "prime minister"—appointed from outside the country, even worse. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Mar 4 21:10:19 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 4 21:04:31 2012. The President of the Republic of Italy who appointed him and the Italian Parliament that gave him a vote of confidence by large majorities are from outside the country?Is that what Brussels Journal is peddling these days? |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Mar 5 08:49:43 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Mar 4 20:49:18 2012. You obviously haven't been reading all of Smaz's hate rants if that surprises you. He's a disgusting creature. |
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Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 5 13:46:10 2012, in response to Re: Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Mar 4 21:04:31 2012. And your beloved Queen comes from a family that was appointed from outside the country. Last I looked, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha wasn't in the UK. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Mar 5 13:51:58 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 28 19:02:41 2012. Re-think your statement with the true definition of democracy in mind. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Mar 5 17:28:15 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Mar 5 13:51:58 2012. He can't. Either. |
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Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Mar 5 18:48:11 2012, in response to Re: Nazi Scientists Say People Not Smart Enough for Democracy, posted by AMoreira81 on Mon Mar 5 13:51:58 2012. Too busy thinking of smaz scientists going on about racial IQ's again. |
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