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Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 12:57:41 2012

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9102740/Richard-Dawkins-I-cant-be-sure-God-does-not-exist.html


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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 12:59:07 2012, in response to Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 12:57:41 2012.

Dawkins actually converted to agnosticism? Would this now be militant agnosticism . . . ?

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:01:40 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 12:59:07 2012.

That's sort of an oxymoron.

I have no problem with agnostics. Admitting you can't say for sure about something as big as God denotes humility and reasonableness.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 13:13:52 2012, in response to Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 12:57:41 2012.

I prefer Voltaire, who was supposed to have been asked by a priest to renounce Satan and turn to God, he and replied, "Now is no time to be making new enemies."

On the one hand, I think it's hubristic to claim absolute knowledge about something as large as the origins of the Universe; on the other hand I remember an Army buddy who once told me "an agnostic is an atheist who wants to be socially acceptable."

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 24 13:34:09 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 13:13:52 2012.

On the other hand, didn't he also say "Oh God, if there is one, save my soul, if I have one."



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Re: Committed atheist repeats what he's always said

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 13:38:00 2012, in response to Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 12:57:41 2012.

This is exactly what Dawkins has been saying ALL THE TIME! You just don't pay attention.

It is just as foolish to state absolutely that there is no god as it is to state absolutely that there is.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 13:38:21 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 13:13:52 2012.

Excellent post.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:50:37 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 13:13:52 2012.

That's why I'm cool with anyone who has a definitive belief, but limits that to their own selves. Nothing wrong with believing in God, but if I don't, don't be in my face about it. In my experience, the kind of zealots that are in your face about it are disproportionately atheist.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 13:51:21 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:50:37 2012.

You've never been to the Bible Belt.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:55:24 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 13:51:21 2012.

Sure have. Maybe I didn't define "in your face about it" properly. Public, devoted religious expression doesn't qualify. Insults, anger and shunning does. Except for some of your more hardcore Christian and Jewish sects, and almost all of Islam, few religious groups qualify. Atheists, OTOH are almost universally intellectually arrogant and are incapable of letting the people around them disagree with their position(s).

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:08:54 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist repeats what he's always said, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 13:38:00 2012.

This is exactly what Dawkins has been saying ALL THE TIME

Liar.

The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.

—From The God Delusion
Never mind his talking out his arse about "21st Century physics", a great deal of which is unscientific (as is a lot of quantum theory) . . .

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:11:31 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:55:24 2012.

Except that most (not all) religious arguments, especially those of lay people, are not intellectually motivated.

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Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:12:10 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:08:54 2012.

LOL!

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:15:02 2012, in response to Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:12:10 2012.

Aw, you poor baby. Feel bad that you were proven wrong yet again, or that you know SFA about anything?

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:15:30 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:11:31 2012.

And you know what about anything "intellectual"?

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 24 14:19:11 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:55:24 2012.

I have been told by many people that their religious views are the only correct ones and surely there must be some defect in me if I don't realize it.

A few of those people have been atheists. None of them have been Jews or Muslims. Almost all of them have been Christians.


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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:28:18 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:15:30 2012.

More than you. You're the stupidest guy here.

Go pray. You don't know how to do anything else.

your pal,
Fred

(912669)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by AlM on Fri Feb 24 14:29:31 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:28:18 2012.

Now that's unfair. Consider Scrabbleship.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:30:53 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by AlM on Fri Feb 24 14:29:31 2012.

Even monkeys have flashes of brilliance.

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 14:51:05 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:30:53 2012.

So THAT'S why I see so few flashes of brilliance of this board.

Not enough monkeys.

your pal,
SLRT

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:59:49 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by SLRT on Fri Feb 24 14:51:05 2012.

Chimps are too busy eating the monkeys.

 


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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 16:17:51 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:28:18 2012.

Stop talking to yourself.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 16:19:20 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 16:17:51 2012.

I'm not.

Go pray!

your pal,
Fred

(912716)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 16:21:27 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 16:19:20 2012.

Darnit, stop talking to yourself. That's twice already.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 16:44:40 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 16:17:51 2012.

What a witty rejoinder.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 16:50:18 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:11:31 2012.

True, it's all a matter of faith. But atheists seem incapable of co-existing with religious people. Dawkins is (or was) a prime example. The one atheist I do have some respect for is Penn Jillete. He's open and honest and doesn't care to convert you if you dissent from his views. Another good example of the kind of atheist I despise is British comedian/improviser Jim Sweeney. He's been a curmudgeon and an asshole in his quest to rid public discourse of the word "God" over there, Ironically, he's dying of MD and as his health declines, his idiocy intensifies.

(912734)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 16:51:42 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 16:44:40 2012.

That must be his prayer.

your pal,
Fred

(912741)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 17:06:39 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 14:28:18 2012.



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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 17:41:34 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 17:06:39 2012.



your pal,
Fred

(912768)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:17:57 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 17:06:39 2012.

Heh; he's just a wannabe.



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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 24 18:21:11 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:17:57 2012.



your pal,
Fred

(912774)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:28:00 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 16:50:18 2012.

But atheists seem incapable of co-existing with religious people

Most of them are also communists. Dawkins isn't, but with the "militant atheist" stance, heavy implication of forced conversion is present.

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Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent

Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Feb 24 18:32:46 2012, in response to Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 24 14:12:10 2012.

He hasn't been committed. If I had my way though, there'd be laws in place to deal with those of his ilk.

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Re: Committed psycho (rocKKKparKKKnazi) remains consistent

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:35:19 2012, in response to Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent, posted by RockParkMan on Fri Feb 24 18:32:46 2012.

If I had my way though, there'd be laws in place to deal with those of his ilk

Thanks for showing that you really are the true Nazi here. Go after the Jews and blacks next, right?

(912789)

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Re: Committed psycho (Olog) remains consistent

Posted by RockParkMan on Fri Feb 24 18:42:18 2012, in response to Re: Committed psycho (rocKKKparKKKnazi) remains consistent, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:35:19 2012.

You're the one who wishes the Cold War went the other way.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 24 21:39:56 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:59:49 2012.

Hmm, that second one.


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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Feb 24 21:43:26 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 14:15:30 2012.



(912825)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 24 21:48:42 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 16:50:18 2012.

Most atheists are exactly as ignorant on the topic as your average religious person. Derren Brown (British pop psychology/magician) did a segment where he used some psychology quirks to convert a room full of atheists. They swore up and down that they had seen God afterward... and after finding out the trick they went right back to atheism.

They shouldn't have been able to be swayed in the first place, if they were "informed" atheists. Rather, these people drifted towards it out of rebellion or after hearing one talk on atheism that seemed to make sense...

I am a Catholic but in the past I have drifted towards agnosticism... honestly it is the only position that makes sense if you have no faith (otherwise you have faith that there is no higher power of any kind).

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 25 00:56:49 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 24 21:48:42 2012.

I disagree. I've tried various philosophies, but I got sick of trying to shoehorn "God" into a universe that works so perfectly without it. I therefore decided to just ignore it.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 25 08:36:09 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 25 00:56:49 2012.

The fact that the universe works so perfectly is enough proof for me that Hashem exists. And what about the soul? Man can make the most extensive computers and robots with fantastic memories but it's all mechanical. They can never have REAL feelings and emotions. Well, anyway, I gotta get ready for Shul.

(912843)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by JayMan on Sat Feb 25 08:45:09 2012, in response to Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 12:57:41 2012.

As I'm sure you've been told by the other posters here, proper atheists don't declare the definite non-existence of God. I can't say there is no God any more than you can say that there is. Atheism isn't about faith; it's the diametric opposite to faith. It would be a leap of faith to say that there is no God, as opposed to that there's no evidence for the existence of one, and a fair amount of evidence that any God described by Earthly religions does not exist—but not enough to say that one doesn't. To put another way, while I'm sure there's no Loch Ness monster, I can't definitely declare its nonexistence until someone scours the lake and finds nothing.

(912844)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by JayMan on Sat Feb 25 08:47:10 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:28:00 2012.

Wow you are paranoid...

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by JayMan on Sat Feb 25 08:48:55 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 24 21:48:42 2012.

They shouldn't have been able to be swayed in the first place, if they were "informed" atheists. Rather, these people drifted towards it out of rebellion or after hearing one talk on atheism that seemed to make sense...

A good atheist would be willing to believe if proof of God's existence were offered. Granted, that was a shitty standard for proof, but the principle is sound.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by JayMan on Sat Feb 25 08:51:10 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 25 08:36:09 2012.

They can never have REAL feelings and emotions.

Until we build one that does. That's "God of the gaps" logic. It hasn't been demonstrated that that is impossible in principle. Besides, considering how well we can manipulate those feelings and emotions with simple things like electrical currents, magnetic fields, and drugs, it makes it hard to declare them especially mystical...

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Fred G on Sat Feb 25 09:14:13 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by JayMan on Sat Feb 25 08:47:10 2012.

He's Hitler.

your pal,
Fred

(912898)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 25 15:35:32 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 25 08:36:09 2012.

The fact that the universe works so perfectly is enough proof for me that Hashem exists

One of the dumbest things that Dawkins said was:

“What I can’t understand is why you (i.e. Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury) can’t see the extraordinary beauty of the idea that life started from nothing—that is such a staggering, elegant, beautiful thing, why would you want to clutter it up with something so messy as a God?
If life started from "nothing", that process should still be happening, if no force impedes it from happening; big hole in that theory. Not only that, but it logically precludes the theory of evolution, which has to stand on the supposition that new forms of life come only from "older" forms. I guess only people who can't think straight can call BS "staggering, elegant (and) beautiful" as he's done here.

Man can make the most extensive computers and robots with fantastic memories but it's all mechanical. They can never have REAL feelings and emotions

They can't have consciousness, or thoughts either, creative or otherwise. GIGO.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 25 16:46:31 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sat Feb 25 08:36:09 2012.

Why must you attribute those things to a soul and not to something that actually exists?

And the universe is not "perfect" by a long-shot.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 25 16:47:31 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 25 15:35:32 2012.

LOL. What trite ignorance.

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by SMAZ on Sat Feb 25 16:52:06 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 24 18:28:00 2012.



(912922)

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Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Feb 25 17:27:44 2012, in response to Re: Committed atheist has crisis of faith, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 25 16:47:31 2012.

Figured you wouldn't be able to counter what I said with science. You're only making yourself look dumber, not me.

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