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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 13:13:48 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 06:46:38 2011. It is very telling to note that among these eight countries, the US is the ONLY democracy, and regularly takes all of the other countries to task for their human-rights recordsArt thou confused . . . ? The other seven you mention execute the innocent, and here I thought you would have pointed that out as well. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 13:23:11 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 13:13:48 2011. we execute those guilty by our legal standards, and sometimes, the innocent as well. (See Claude Jones, the last man Bush executed as Governor of texas, for example, he was very likely innocent of the murder he was charged with. Hair from the crime scene, introduced into evidence against Jones at his trial, was posthumously DNA-tested, and found not to be his. His lawyers requested DNA testing before Jones was executed, but Bush was never told this.)The other countries on the list of eight execute prisoners that may be innocent under our legal standards, but are guilty under the legal standards--however twisted--of the countries that executed them. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 22 13:37:41 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 13:11:43 2011. Eight is enough. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are so pathetically transparent. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 22 13:38:33 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 13:09:22 2011. Why can't he do that? You certainly are guilty of the same thing. If you can do it and you feel justified, then you have no right telling him that he can not. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 14:20:21 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Sep 22 12:45:35 2011. Which is completely irrelevant. You are attacking his message for completely invalid reasons.If Hitler had said the sky was blue, would you disagree with him? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 14:21:59 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 13:11:43 2011. Seems like a weird number at which to stop. It implies that #9 is a democracy as well. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Sep 22 15:10:45 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 14:20:21 2011. No, I'm attacking the foundation on which said person is using as some sort of moral authority on Christian fundamentalism.Yeah, we got a LOT of Jesus freaks here, but they have proven fundamentally harmless. Europe's political and religious extremists have an awful human rights track record over the last century. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 15:12:38 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Sep 22 13:38:33 2011. WHEN have I ever stated others' opinions for them on this board, Mr. Self-Admitted Liar? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 15:17:47 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 14:21:59 2011. #9 UAE #10 Zimbabwe Neither of these countries are democracies. UAE is a theocracy, and Zimbabwe is a dictatorship. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 15:20:58 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 06:46:38 2011. Executions are the right thing. Many people deserve to die for their crimes.As for Troy Davis, it only became a big story a few weeks ago. I first heard about him on Al Sharpton's radio show. I doubt you'll bother to listen tonight. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 15:53:44 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 15:20:58 2011. As for Troy Davis, it only became a big story a few weeks ago ?where have you been ? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:07:01 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 15:53:44 2011. same place I've always been.Now all of a sudden, everyone is joining the "He's innocent" chorus. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:17:19 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:07:01 2011. this was going down BEFORE he was murdered by the state of georgia |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:19:31 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:17:19 2011. y do u think he's innosent? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:20:18 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:19:31 2011. yes |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Sep 22 16:28:07 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:20:18 2011. yes??? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:31:17 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Sep 22 16:28:07 2011. ..Are last-minute Supreme Court stays cruel and unusual punishment?. (AP) Troy Davis had already eaten his last meal Wednesday night as 7 p.m.--his scheduled execution time--came and went. A few minutes later, Georgia prison officials announced they would delay his execution so that the U.S. Supreme Court could consider the prisoner's last-minute request for an appeal. Over the next four hours, Davis' supporters in Georgia celebrated and prayed, hoping that the delay meant Davis would stave off death one more time. Davis was no stranger to 11th-hour appeals: Wednesday was his fourth execution date. He had also faced execution on July 2007, September 2008, and October 2008. Each of these earlier appointments with execution produced additional stays so that his case could come under fresh judicial review. In September 2008, the Supreme Court granted Davis a stay just an hour and a half before he was set to be put to death. Indeed, Davis reportedly declined to request a special last meal because he believed another 11th-hour reprieve was in the offing. He ate the same cheeseburger fare as all the other Georgia inmates did. But shortly after 10 p.m., the Supreme Court announced it had decided not to hear Davis' appeal, and Davis was then strapped to a gurney and put to death at 11:08 pm. Davis' execution has rallied death penalty opponents who believe that Georgia had executed an innocent man. But another issue raised by Davis' roller-coaster ride through state-mandated life and death over the past 20 years is whether Death Row itself constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. Convicts in less high-profile cases have also experienced the same 11th-hour stays. Last week, Texas Death Row prisoner Duane Buck was granted a Supreme Court execution stay two hours into the six-hour window Texas prison officials had set for his execution. Anti-death penalty activists, including the human-rights group Amnesty International, have compared the dramatic and protracted appeals process to "mock executions"--a practice widely recognized as torture. As of 2008, American Death Row prisoners spent an average of 13 years waiting for their executions. In some countries, waits of more than three years are outlawed as inhumane. The Supreme Court in the past has tried to prevent the last-minute decisions that come after a prisoner has already been scheduled to die. "Justice [Sandra Day] O'Connor asked the states to change the time of execution to day time so that when the inevitable last-minute appeals come in the justices are at least at work instead of all over, at home or you know around the world," Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center, told The Lookout. "A lot of states did do that, but it really doesn't solve the problem. Whatever decisions are made before, lawyers are going to file something new the day of the execution--that's their job." This time, the court hasn't explained what took so long. In past Supreme Court rulings on the issue, Justice Stephen Breyer led the charge--together with now-retired Justice John Paul Stevens--in arguing that the Supreme Court should consider whether Death Row itself constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. Such measures are barred under the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution. In 1995, Stevens argued that leaving criminals on Death Row for long periods of time may be unconstitutional. He cited a comment in a Supreme Court decision from 1890: "When a prisoner sentenced by a court to death is confined in the penitentiary awaiting the execution of the sentence, one of the most horrible feelings to which he can be subjected during that time is the uncertainty during the whole of it." In 1890, the execution waiting period was no more than four weeks. Stevens also wrote that the court ruled the death penalty legal because the Framers considered it permissible and because it serves as retribution and as a deterrent to crime. Stevens argued that the Framers would never have countenanced decades-long Death Rows in their time, since people were executed promptly after sentencing. Stevens also argued that the longer a prisoner awaits execution, the less likely it is that the sentence will produce a deterrent or retributive effect. Stevens contended that the lengthy appeals process is necessary, however, since more than 30 percent of death penalty verdicts between 1973 and 2000 were overturned. Stevens argued in a 2009 case that the death penalty should be outlawed altogether in order to resolve the issue of whether the extended appeals of capital cases he saw as constitutionally mandated were nevertheless in violation of the Constitution's Eighth Amendment. Justice Clarence Thomas disagreed. Convicted murderer William Thompson argued that his 30 years on Death Row were cruel and unusual punishment. But Thomas wrote that it was the prisoner's own fault for appealing his sentence again and again. Thomas also said that the severity of Thompson's crime merited the death penalty. Thompson was convicted of torturing and murdering a woman while trying to extort several hundred dollars from her family. Death penalty opponents have made the same argument in international courts. Is it cruel to keep a person on Death Row, in perpetual doubt about whether he will live or die? Or is it the prisoner's fault for appealing his sentence in the first place? Most of the decisions have sided with the former argument, reasoning that it's only natural that a condemned prisoner would cling to life by mounting extended and repeated appeals. In some other countries that still use capital punishment--including Kenya, Malawi and Uganda--a death sentence is commuted to life in prison if execution is delayed by more than three years, according to Reprieve, a London-based anti-death penalty nonprofit. The European Court of Human Rights held in 1989 that forcing a condemned prisoner to endure "the conditions on death row and the anguish and mounting tension of living in the ever-present shadow of death" is inhumane. The UK Privy Council, which is the highest court for former Commonwealth countries, also says long periods on Death Row are inhumane because they add the "additional torture of a long period of alternating hope and despair." .. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 22 16:44:18 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Sep 22 11:56:41 2011. Americans imported biblical literalism from Europe.No, the particular variety of naïve biblical literalism happened after large-scale migration from Europe to America had ceased. The historical context was the conflict between a posteriori evidence of the world around us and some traditional positions of Protestant Christianity. The Protestant mainstream adapted to reality, but there arose a movement from the 1920s onward to cling to an exaggerated version of Protestant traditions and reject reality when it conflicts with them. This did originate in America, and it was in fact very slow in crossing the Atlantic. This history is particularly obvious in publications. The Evangelical/Fundamentalist/reality-rejecting articles are a 20th-century American phenomenon. There is of course a good reason for this geographical split: England had and still has a state church whose theological position basically comes down to woolly liberalism, social respectability, and not rocking the boat. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:48:54 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Sep 22 16:28:07 2011. ATLANTA (AP) — Georgia's execution of Troy Davis for the murder of an off-duty police officer has done little to resolve the debate over his guilt that captured the attention of thousands worldwide, including a former president and the pope.Davis remained defiant even after he was strapped to a gurney Wednesday night in the state's death chamber, declaring his innocence and urging the victim's family to continue searching for the truth. "I ask my family and friends to continue to fight this fight," Davis said in his final statement. Demonstrators wept during a candlelight vigil outside the prison. High-profile figures, including former President Jimmy Carter, said there was too much doubt surrounding Davis' conviction and that his execution called the entire death penalty system into question. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 16:50:32 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 22 16:44:18 2011. England had and still has a state church whose theological position basically comes down to woolly liberalism, social respectability, and not rocking the boat. . . and Benedict XVI is tearing it apart bit by bit. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Sep 22 16:53:12 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 16:50:32 2011. ". . . and Benedict XVI is tearing it apart bit by bit."And for who's benefit? yours or mine? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:54:11 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 16:48:54 2011. what "doubt" was there? Cop is still dead. Black male passenger in car was shot. The jury was 7 blacks, 5 whites. Every witness was black. Why is this case suddenly so important? Oh, I know. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 16:56:15 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:54:11 2011. I wonder if its as important to him as the Texas execution carried out on white supremacist James Byrd last night? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:59:57 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 16:56:15 2011. That's how it works. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 22 17:01:08 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Sep 22 15:10:45 2011. No, I'm attacking the foundation on which said person is using as some sort of moral authority on Christian fundamentalism.I'm not making any claims about moral authority. Why don't you try engaging with what I actually said? Yeah, we got a LOT of Jesus freaks here, but they have proven fundamentally harmless. It is not harmless to try to get your particular rejection of reality onto school science curricula. But the social harm they do is really beside the point. I was criticizing them merely for the way in which they willfully ignore scholarship. Europe's political and religious extremists have an awful human rights track record over the last century. Oh, so the Trail of Tears didn't happen? And you didn't have slavery, Jim Crow, or lynchings? Yes, you are just as bad as those Ku Klux Klan nutjobs because you live on the same continent as them. </sarcasm> But I sincerely suggest that you have lost all sense of proportion here. I was criticizing a religious movement that has set up bogus colleges and published pseudish articles that fail to engage with Biblical criticism after any sort of constructive fashion. They are not trying to further knowledge of the Bible, but maintain as much ignorance as possible through obfuscation, wishful thinking, and lies. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:05:56 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:59:57 2011. no it dosent |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:07:42 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:59:57 2011. i am against the death penality |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 17:11:44 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Sep 22 16:53:12 2011. His own. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Streetcarman1 on Thu Sep 22 17:14:07 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 17:11:44 2011. Are you saying the Pope is selfish? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:30:35 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:07:42 2011. I am against you! |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:35:30 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:30:35 2011.  |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Thu Sep 22 17:36:00 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Sep 22 16:50:32 2011. Bizarrely, the RCC steered a sort of Via Media, denouncing "Modernism", but accepting the phenomena seen in the world and the universe. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 17:36:01 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:35:30 2011. who is that? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:36:55 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 17:36:01 2011. Mr Mabstoa |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:44:24 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:36:55 2011. Here's a picture of Salaam Alaah doing something in a train station. Now here's my question?How can a man who could get on his knees to take pictures be in SSI? You can get on your knees and pick fruit, clean, change oil in a Jiffy lube!!! LOL 
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:55:59 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:44:24 2011. In this photo despite the hot weather as evidenced by the other gentlemen in the phote wearing tee-shirts, Salaam is weather a plastic safety vest with no UNDERSHIRT!Get a tan! 
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:59:26 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 17:55:59 2011. zzzzzzzz |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 18:07:53 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 17:59:26 2011. You should not make fun of Troy Davis!Yes he's sleep now but not snoring! |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 19:02:37 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 15:17:47 2011. OK. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 19:03:55 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 19:02:37 2011. Note that I agree that capital punishment is generally carried out by dictatorships and other non-free states. AFAIK only the United States, South Korea and Japan are democratic and have CP.I have previously established my opposition to CP. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:05:53 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 16:54:11 2011. Becausae no physical evidence was ever introduced at trial. The shell casings were used to link Davis to an earlier shooting, not the one for which he was executed. The state's case was built on eyewitness testimony, and several of those witnesses have since filed affidavits recanting their earlier, sworn tesimony, citing police or prosecutorial coercion. The state wanted a quick arrest and conviction in this shooting death of a police officer, and seemingly were willing to ignore the rules of evidentiary procedure to get it.Georgia had tried three previous times to kill Davis--once in 2007, twice in 2008, but high courts--including SCOTUS--stopped it from happening each time. The davis case is noteworthy not because of the race of the victim and defendant, but because Davis appears to have been condemned by a very questionable prosecution. Again, I hardly think so many prominent figures--two ex-Presidents, 51 current Congressmen, the Pope, and a highly conservative FBI director--would ever petition on behalf of a convicted, black, cop-killer, if they didn't have serious doubts about the merits of Georgia's case. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:07:38 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu Sep 22 16:56:15 2011. I specifically said both executions were wrong, elsewhere in this thread. I oppose capital punishment in all circumstances, even if I'm the victim. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 19:14:24 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:05:53 2011. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!People like you need stuff like this. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:19:48 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 19:14:24 2011. Have you even looked at the facts of the Davis case? It didn't "just now" get covered in the media. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 19:36:32 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:19:48 2011. I'm not joining the chorus. Sorry. |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 19:36:34 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:07:38 2011. me too |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Sep 22 19:37:47 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:19:48 2011. iawtp |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Easy on Thu Sep 22 19:42:40 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Sep 22 19:05:53 2011. Most of the people you're listing are anti-death penalty in all cases, so to get them to oppose the execution is hardly groundbreaking. Jimmy Carter, the Pope,...wtf?!? |
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Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Sep 22 19:44:40 2011, in response to Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Easy on Thu Sep 22 19:42:40 2011. Stories like this are what some people thrive on. Convict says he's innocent and everyone from the JayZeeBMT's to celebrities to activists all join the chorus. |
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Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Sep 22 19:49:52 2011, in response to Re: Ecclesiastes Re: Execution Carried Out, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Sep 22 15:10:45 2011. What moral authority? KGT is not resting upon any moral authority in crafting his argument, he is resting on scholarly authority and the facts. |
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