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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 20:00:30 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 19:54:56 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I guess. Just like when I say that I don't think that single men should adopt doesn't mean that I have a problem with men.

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(797848)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 20:03:31 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 19:56:45 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I still think that I was correct but he was pointing out that just having two heterosexual parents doesn't guarantee a perfect family. I think that goes without saying but maybe I did kind of imply that with my wording.

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(797855)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:11:52 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 19:06:07 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Good post. And to add, no one is calling the kids "imperfect", but their unfortunate living arrangement is.

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(797857)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:15:54 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:11:52 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
And to add, no one is calling the kids "imperfect", but their unfortunate living arrangement is.

Is foster care or a group home a better and more fortunate living arrangement?


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(797870)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:32:57 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 20:00:30 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I guess. Just like when I say that I don't think that single men should adopt doesn't mean that I have a problem with men.

Very good point, and well put.

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(797871)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:38:54 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 20:03:31 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Of course. You can have two horrible parents with a mother and a father. That unfortunateness doesn't mean "two daddies" should be right either.

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(797874)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:40:30 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:15:54 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
No, but that doesn't make "two daddies" right either.

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(797878)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 21 20:41:50 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:40:30 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Even Lenin knew that if you destroy the family, you destroy society. That was something he was supposed to be dedicated to doing due to being a communist, but he knew that he couldn't allow his new empire to fall apart . . .

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(797889)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:52:43 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 21 20:41:50 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
So it's Communists that are blocking the creation of new families by making gay marriage and adoption illegal?

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(797891)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 21 20:57:03 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:52:43 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Leftists, yes.

And now a break for punk rock.



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(797902)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 21 21:05:07 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:52:43 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Nah ... it's Germans. Nobody can be more commie than the nazis. :)

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(797913)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:23:55 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 20:00:30 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I thought your bringing pedophiles into the mix to imply that was what was happening was asinine.

your pal,
Fred

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(797914)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:24:31 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 05:45:52 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I dunno, are gays more likely to admit it because more gays are molested as kids or are they simply more likely to admit it because they've crossed the hetero/gay line already and speak more freely about such subjects?

10 to 15% gays reporting included in 1 to 2% of all people reporting doesn't make 10 to 15 times more likely. It means that 10 to 15% of gays which are X% of the 1 to 2 % of all people reporting.

My point is that one can't conclusively say that a gay couple is more likely to have been molested and will more likely be molesters themselves. Gay couples are generally more stable than single gays just like their hetero counterparts. Your first link was some single dude who molested 2 girls. The second one involves a boy so it's got gay fingerprints on it to be sure in addition to the pedophilia. Both of them need to be punished severely.

your pal,
Fred

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(797916)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 21:31:07 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 21 20:57:03 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
straight from the cradle of Western Civilization and the land of Idomeneus and the Minotaur.



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(797917)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:31:35 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 20:38:54 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Two loving daddies > a negligent heterosexual couple tho. Sometimes we lose sight of the good because of some imperfections.

your pal,
Fred

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(797923)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 21:41:26 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:23:55 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Well now you know better

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(797925)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:45:37 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 21:41:26 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Not really. I don't take you seriously.

your pal,
Fred

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(797926)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 21:46:23 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:24:31 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I dunno, are gays more likely to admit it because more gays are molested as kids or are they simply more likely to admit it because they've crossed the hetero/gay line already and speak more freely about such subjects?

A little of both, mostly the latter is my guess.

10 to 15% gays reporting included in 1 to 2% of all people reporting doesn't make 10 to 15 times more likely. It means that 10 to 15% of gays which are X% of the 1 to 2 % of all people reporting.

That "X%" is a very big number. Gays are only 5% or so of the population, but 25% of those that were molested.


My point is that one can't conclusively say that a gay couple is more likely to have been molested and will more likely be molesters themselves. Gay couples are generally more stable than single gays just like their hetero counterparts. Your first link was some single dude who molested 2 girls. The second one involves a boy so it's got gay fingerprints on it to be sure in addition to the pedophilia. Both of them need to be punished severely.


Due diligence isn't going to weed out people that were molested (nor maybe should it) unless they have a record of some sort. But since gay couples are far more likely (at least 5 times as likely) as heterosexual couples to have at least one pedophile it's something to consider. I think that the guy in my first link is also gay. He had kids as a single dad with a surrogate. Who does that?

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(797934)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:53:43 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 21:46:23 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's your opinion and i guess you're entitled to it. Your math is still fuzzy.

your pal,
Fred

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(797943)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 22:01:20 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:53:43 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
That's your opinion and i guess you're entitled to it.

And that's the best part to it. You know the saying, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and everyone is entitled to use it.

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(797947)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 22:03:17 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 22:01:20 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
"They all stink" is what I heard.

your pal,
Fred

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(797951)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Jun 21 22:06:43 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:31:35 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
That's what I don't understand. Is the better alternative to keep the kids "in the system" despite the fact that they would have supporting, loving parents that want to take care of them...that just happen to be two men?

Of course, I also believe that single parents can and should be able to adopt kids if they choose so and are able to provide a stable, loving home for the child. I mean, that is the goal, isn't it? I wouldn't think that you would want kids to grow up in foster care.



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(797961)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 21 22:12:10 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Jun 21 22:06:43 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Is the better alternative to keep the kids "in the system"

Don't make it sound like the sole alternative by saying "the better".

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(797967)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 22:20:08 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 22:03:17 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
That too.

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(797978)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 22:35:17 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 22:20:08 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's how the saying goes. "Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and they all stink".

your pal,
Fred

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(797995)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 22:51:30 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 21:53:43 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I'm definitely entitled to it and my math is fine. Do the math.

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(797997)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 22:53:15 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 22:51:30 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
You're probably right. I mean a gay man has as much propensity to be a pedophile as a black man has to be a criminal.

your pal,
Fred

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(798000)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 22:54:32 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 20:15:54 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Gay couples or even single people should be allowed to adopt if they are willing to adopt children that no one else is willing to adopt, or if there were a shortage of qualified regular couples willing to adopt.

There should be no right to adopt a child. The child's rights come first.

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(798003)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 23:00:13 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 22:54:32 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Gay couples or even single people should be allowed to adopt if they are willing to adopt children that no one else is willing to adopt, or if there were a shortage of qualified regular couples willing to adopt.

yes I agree.

There should be a pecking order with married straight couples at the top, followed by unmarried straight couples, then gay couples, then singles.

There should be no right to adopt a child. The child's rights come first.

And that's my point.
It's not about a gay couple's (or anyone else's) right to adopt. There is none.
It's about a child right to live in the best living environment possible and the environment provided by a solid gay couple is superior to the one provided by sequential foster families or group homes.





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(798004)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:02:13 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 23:00:13 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
yes I agree.

There should be a pecking order with married straight couples at the top, followed by unmarried straight couples, then gay couples, then singles.


Yes, I also actually agree with that.
Although that opens another can of worms as the kids know what's going on. "Oh great, no one else wanted us so we wound up with a gay couple"....

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(798005)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:05:26 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 22:53:15 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Not even close. Many more black men are criminals. Besides I haven't said how many gay men I think are actually pedophiles versus how many straight men are. Those proportions might be fairly similar.

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(798007)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:07:09 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:02:13 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
When you think about it tho, a gay couple is probably more likely to have more money than the other foster parents so it could be more like "HOT DAMN, we hit da jackpot!", and those trips to Europe will wash away that stigma right then and there.

your pal,
Fred

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(798008)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:07:33 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:05:26 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
The consensus is that people have a problem with MEN in general, it really has nothing to do with "homosexuality". For some reason I seem to have no problem picturing two lesbian women raising kids, but I have a problem with two gay men.....

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(798009)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:10:00 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by The Flxible Neofan on Tue Jun 21 22:06:43 2011.

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That's the assumption, but it's a faulty one. The kids that are adopted by gay couples are unlikely to end up in the system instead. Unless they're troubled children or something, in which case it's fine.

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(798010)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:10:46 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:05:26 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I kinda think I'm not really interested.

your pal,
Fred

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(798011)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:10:58 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 23:00:13 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
IAWTP 100%.

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(798013)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:11:52 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 21 23:00:13 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
I think that unmarried straight couples also have a hard time adopting. I think that the pecking order should be:

Straight married couples
Lesbian married or civil union couples

Single women
Unmarried straight couples



Gay male couples
Unattached men (gay or straight) shouldn't be allowed to adopt unless it's a family member

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(798016)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:14:00 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:02:13 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
That stigma already exists with adopted children: "Why didn't my birth parents want me?"

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(798017)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:14:08 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:07:09 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
No, the gay couple was only more likely to have more money WHEN THEY had two full time incomes and no kids to support. Once they have to raise kids, there goes the two full time paychecks, as well as the faucet running on the money in reference to the kids. Then they are struggling just like every other couple with kids to support.

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(798018)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:15:27 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:10:00 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
If they are in the "bottom of the totem pole" model suggested, then there's a good chance they would be "troubled" children.

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(798020)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:16:56 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:14:08 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
It would depend on the incomes which IINM would be higher in a gay household.

your pal,
Fred

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(798021)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:16:58 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:10:46 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yet here you are.

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(798022)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:17:04 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:14:00 2011.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, this is true....but then again, imagine being not only that stigma, but the "not even many potential adoptive parents wanted us either.

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(798023)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:18:04 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:16:56 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Not necessarily. Again, in the present usual set up, their incomes are higher because they don't have the pressures of family bringing them down, and more time to spend towards their careers.

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(798024)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:18:36 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:16:58 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Last word freak.

your pal,
Fred

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(798025)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 21 23:18:51 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:17:04 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Infants don't tend to be troubled. There's usually little trouble finding people to adopt infants.

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(798026)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:19:49 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:15:27 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Or black.

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(798028)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:19:57 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by Easy on Tue Jun 21 23:11:52 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes, I totally agree with that. Interestingly you also, like me, seem to not care about "homosexual" in this topic, it's "men" you have the problem with, and I feel the same way actually. I would but lesbian women in the exact spot you put it in, in fact, I would do the whole list the same.

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(798029)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:20:04 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:18:04 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
No not necessarily but gay couples tend to be professionals which bring in higher salaries.

your pal,
Fred

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(798033)

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Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers

Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 21 23:26:21 2011, in response to Re: Gay couples adopting more often despite barriers, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jun 21 23:19:57 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Other than that molester stuff, you're probably right :)

your pal,
Fred

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